Mount lofty house

[PF_]

zinged!

[RescueHazmat]

Okay toast, im guessing you have had a substantial career in either a paid or volunteer service and have vast knowledge in many areas by the many opinionated posts ?

Now..

The roof is alight, the top floor is alight.. Have you ever been to any jobs where this is the case?   

The jobs where I have been to have all resulted in collapse. (Either partly or wholely).  Especially with the conditions described by Bittenyakka.  It is *well* involved... This means massive deterioration to the supporting elements of the building. Things like Evap airconditioners lose the supports they were sitting on, they drop to the earth. Timber gerders, they drop, tiles, parts of ceiling, they drop, now they are dropping onto a fully involved top floor? Could that drop? Is the *risk* worth losing a firefighter or two? I think not.


Not to mention your first arriving appliance has 3 BA, so you cant send in anyone anyway ! BA Safety crew comes to mind. (Not to mention the limited water the crew would have to the hose while in there) - Meaning you have no one on exposure protection, no one finding a water source, who's running the pump and the job?

Apart from the people who opened their door and were backdrafted on.

Wouldn't the fire flash? I thought reaching 'flashpoint' is what occured when oxygen mixed with pyrolosis gasses and an ignition source causing the ideal mixture?

Why would they have been difficult? The roof burning through would have made them easier as heat and smoke rises, not to mention that there would be quite a few windows broken by the backdraft making ventilation easier and almost complete? Even if the windows weren't broken by the force of the backdraft, then a FF with a ladder and a Pike Pole/Axe/Halligan can do the job.

What further ventilation techniques would 'you' undertake while the roof has been opened up? I said it would be difficult, not impossible to further ventilation. Oh, and Im trying to work out who is going to get up the ladder with the ceiling hook, 1 appliance, with 3 BA crew on board, apparently you have crews on interior attack, safety crews standing around doing very little, an ECO, an OIC, someone running your pump, somehow protecting exposures and containing the fire?  Did a troop truck with crew roll up during the job?

We are talking about what we would do on arrival, my first plan a few posts ago was to upgrade the response, weigh up the situation, realising we are under crewed for the job, undertaking a defensive and exposure protecting plan, while trying to minimise damage to the structure.. Maybe 30 mins into the job when I have 30 f/f's on scene, a cascade of water and a few more members trained in BA I might change my tactics...

[Toast]

Not to mention your first arriving appliance has 3 BA, so you cant send in anyone anyway ! BA Safety crew comes to mind. (Not to mention the limited water the crew would have to the hose while in there) - Meaning you have no one on exposure protection, no one finding a water source, who's running the pump and the job?

Why not? You have a team of up to three, with atleast two more on the way. By the time youve donned BA, got a line stretched into the building the second appliance should be pretty much around the corner. Assuming 6 crew, then OIC/Pump/2xBA + 1xBA(external?)/Water lackey?

Wouldn't the fire flash? I thought reaching 'flashpoint' is what occured when oxygen mixed with pyrolosis gasses and an ignition source causing the ideal mixture?

Bittenyakka tells us it Backdrafted (correctly or incorrectly) but if you have a heater that ignites something in an enclosed room, wouldn't it, at a point consume all available oxygen in the room and begin to cease combustion and smoulder, awaiting a fresh source of oxygen? Hence the rapid reignition when the rooms door is opened by the unlucky (and maybe mid-intercourse) occupants?

What further ventilation techniques would 'you' undertake while the roof has been opened up? I said it would be difficult, not impossible to further ventilation. Oh, and Im trying to work out who is going to get up the ladder with the ceiling hook, 1 appliance, with 3 BA crew on board, apparently you have crews on interior attack, safety crews standing around doing very little, an ECO, an OIC, someone running your pump, somehow protecting exposures and containing the fire?  Did a troop truck with crew roll up during the job?

Sorry, just used to people giving and initial response, then coninuing to the full extent. Just confused by your addition of Overhaul/Salvage, I didn't realise you were talking about initial ventilation. 

[RescueHazmat]

Was meaning just considering what methods of overhaul and salvage could be conducted during/ at the end of the job knowing what we already know.

Glad it's all cleared up.


I still stand by my comment of not sending a crew in. A fire that involved by the time a crew has arrived, yet alone by the time a crew is getting to work / has backup crews creates too many unsafe and unknown variables.  The  " What if " the roof was going to come in, is enough risk to hold crews to an exterior attack. - If it was confined to a couple of rooms and not a roof + 1 whole floor, it may be considered.


But that is why this is a hypothetical and this is a forum, we can all share open views and hope to learn..

[bittenyakka]

to really if ythis happened we would all arrive and go oh (something that I wont say on the form ) and undertake defensive firefighting.

[2090]

to really if ythis happened we would all arrive and go oh (something that I wont say on the form ) and undertake defensive firefighting.

You might. There is something to be said for sensible, yet agressive internal firefighting.

[bittenyakka]

yes it is very effective especially when CFB training can be used to its full potential. But as safty is the priority and the entire top floor is alight I would be very cautious about sending crews into it.

[5271rescue]

Can someone fix that alarm how many times does it go off....

[Darius]

Mt Lofty House? not very often. (what do you mean?)

[CFS_Firey]

Its probably one of the busiest of the fixed alarms monitored by Stirling, but it wouldn't go off more than 4 or 5 times a year...

[Alan (Big Al)]

You can have our nursing home then, 6 or 7times since july, ever since they put in the new digital board and sprinklers there's a much higher rate of falsies now.

Make that 20 since 1st January, 2 justified's and about 6 for burnt food etc, the rest are all faults, the bonus i suppose is that they are all in the daylight hours and not at an un holy hour of the night......YET

[CFS_Firey]

Its ok, you can keep it...   With every daytime alarm, the chances of a nigh time one higher and higher