CAFS

[fire03rescue]

The ACT fire brigade has purchased 3 new CAFS appliances. I think it was 2 volvos and 1 ISSU.
I wonder if the CFS will go down this line. Blackwood has a CAFS as well.
What are people's thought of this new way of fire fighting

[Good times]

I think its about time Australia caught up with the rest of the world, makes good use of water for rural work, I am yet to see it in action for structural work, but americans use them by the thousands now.

[mattb]

Morphett Vale has had a Darley Snuffer CAFS unit on its' 14 since 1999, it responds to all rural incidents during fire season as well as car fires and second alarm structure jobs. It handles any A class fire brilliantly, although it only has a 400 litre water tank it generally last about 10 minutes, further to that our brigade S.O.P.s state that it generally has a 'big' truck working with it to continue the water supply.

CAFS is great for quick knock down of fires and assists in mopping up hugely, there is lots of research and info available on the net to help prove that.

Any time someone wants a demo of our unit just ask.  

[corocfs]

i personally think that  bwd CAFS has been a bit of a dissapointment. although it is yet to get a decent run i think, and has been jinx'd by other problems.. im hoping CFS doesnt decide to build anymore CAFS 24s, but units on 14s should be kept as its the perfect way to extend there water supply at rural jobs.

[HAZMAT]

does anyone know wether CFS will be getting more 24CAFS appliances? from what ive heard/read the answer's no??

has this bwd 24CAFS just been another customised brigade vehicle?

[oz fire]

The Blackwood CAFS vehicle was a "proto type" build in partnership between Blackwood Brigade, CFS HQ Technical Service branch, Sturt CFS Group and the od supplier/promoter (FARA).

So in short - yes it's a one off!!!

The use of CAFS is still hottly debated - in the rural environment it is great and has HUGE advantages - less water, cooling, lasts (does not evaporate) the list goes on - in an urban/structural environment there are two very distinct camps and allot still to be done - it abviuosly has the cooling featureswhen on surfaces, but not when applied to the gas layer, to be effecting needs to be applied through a straight bore branch (not multi function). There are also issues with fire cause investigation and evidence distruction recent SA case is a house fire in Belair where the use of CAFS may have been an issue.

When you look across the web, alot of US services have it and use it, but some are removing it others restricyting it's use and others doing the same stuff everyday, whilst inEurope they are strict abouts it's use and it's not as heavily promoted.

Long and short, it is great is used in the right environment (as a number of CFS 14's can attest too)

[oz fire]

fire03rescue - any more info to share on CAFS - have heard a few mixed reports, but was hoping that you might be able to share some stories on it's effectivness?

[fire03rescue]

I think that CAFS is fantastic. I must admit I was not 100% sure about it to start with.
We have spent many hours training to work out the best way to get the best results. We had many hours of head scratching and research. Now that has been done it is easy to use. On the CAFS the best things has been the following
We use 38mm hose (on hose reel 60m) at a flow rate of about 80 litres a minute. So with a tank of 1500lt that gives us 18 minutes. These has a great throw of CAFS
If we need to do some mop up we can add extra lay flat on the end, we reduce the flow down to about 50liters a minute (can’t remember the exact rate)
The other good thing is that we only need to use 51mm hoses ( we carry 64mm for boosting and getting water in ) This is because of the excellent performance of the 51mm when using CAFS.
When using 51mm or 38mm the throw is much better with CAFS than water.
If we need to we can take in out of CAFS and use it as a normal pump.
But I think the most impressive thing is the knockdown. Having used this on car fires, house fires, grass fires etc. I think the best example I can use is at fire we had a large pile of trees cut down and was burning very hot. We had a crew from another brigade that had just starting to add water (we needed a few hoses) In our corner we knocked down the fire very quickly. Being one of the first times I had used it I was very impressed with what I saw.
The funny thing is that a lot of people love to bag CAFS and it feels like they want it to fail. I am not sure why this is. I think most of these people have not has a good chance to see CAFS and have a play
Just my opinion

[Wagon 1]

If you want to see it used well, look at how the Americans use it, I think the issue has been the teething problems, everyone likes to bag stuff when it doesn't wortk properly after its been sold as the be all and end all, bit like the GRN, over sold!!

[strikeathird]

Won't have to worry bout the GRN soon.


But won't get off topic.

[oz fire]

Im guessing the general opionion on CAFS is like many other things - if over sold then it will fail - idnetifying and acknowledging the limitations and shortfalls allows people then to be clear on the benifits and see the advantages and application.

Simialr to Compartment Fire Training - was seen as the 'new' solution - but it has it's limitations and approprriate applications, the new Hazmat suits - seen as the be all and end all, howver they have their limitations and approprite uses.

There are many pages on the pro's and cons of CAFS, Compartment, PPE, Hazmat and alike, the best thing there is no one tool for every application, rather a good range - otherwise we could all drive Hilux utes with the all in one tool!

[strikeathird]

lol at the great hilux pun

[JamesGar]

Found the following on a transcript of minutes from July sitting of Parliament, interesting:

WATER SUPPLY\TOC\2\WATER SUPPLY

 

 

\IND\Question:nn:The Hon. J. GAZZOLA    The Hon. J. GAZZOLA: I seek leave to make a brief explanation before asking the Minister for Emergency Services a question regarding alternative technologies that minimise the use of water.

     Leave granted.

     The Hon. J. GAZZOLA: South Australia, as we know and as has been often said, is a very dry state in a very dry nation, with permanent water conservation measures. Therefore, my question of the minister is: what is the CFS doing to investigate alternative technologies that minimise the use of water?

 \IND\Answer:nn:The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO    The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO (Minister for Emergency Services): I thank the honourable member for his question. The CFS continues to look for ways to minimise the use of water whilst still maintaining fire-fighting effectiveness. Recently, a compressed airform system (CAFS) appliance was commissioned for the Blackwood brigade, using world-class technology. The use of this technology enables water resources to be used with far greater efficiency. Anecdotal evidence suggests that, when compared to conventional pumping systems, CAFS increases the fire-fighting capacity of water by a ratio of around 8:1. Therefore, an appliance carrying 1 000 litres of water with CAFS has similar fire-fighting capacity as a much larger conventional appliance with 8 000 litres of water. The Blackwood appliance takes advantage of this by carrying only 1 000 litres of water, whereby the CFS would normally carry 2 000 litres on a similar-sized vehicle. This provides the CFS with a highly efficient fire appliance in a relatively small package.

512     Other efficiencies gained with CAFS include: lower firefighter fatigue due to hoses being much easier to handle because of their reduced weight and the ability to extinguish fires quickly. Other advantages of the system include: rapid extinguishment of fire resulting in reduced damage and less time spent on the fire ground allowing volunteers to get back to work or their families sooner and reduced wear and tear on vehicles and equipment, again due to reduced working time. So, following on the success of this appliance, the CFS is considering the purchase of further CAFS pumps.

[JamesGar]

This was the press release about the ACT CAFS appliance. Will put a photo in my Gallery

ACT upgrades fire protection
 
Thursday, February 10, 2005

THE Australian Capital Territory has added two purpose-built Volvo FM9-380 Compressed Air Foam System (CAFS) water tankers to its fire brigade fleet on recommendations by the McLeod Inquiry into the January 2003 bushfires.

 

"Canberra has one of the highest populations in Australia living along the rural-urban interface. We needed to examine new approaches to tackling these fires. The use of CAFS offered the solution rather than simply acquiring more old technology" ACT Emergency Services spokesperson Peter Dunn said.

The platform of these Volvo FM9s is a heavy duty mining industry specification which features a straight I-beam front axle and raised B-Ride rear suspension fitted with 13R22.5 tyres to give the vehicle more ground clearance.

"We then looked at what we call critical areas," Mr Gray Moffatt explained. These include such things as the air-system for the brakes, electrical system, and the fuel and intake for the engine."

"Take the engine air intake for example," Mr Gray Moffatt continued. "There have been reported instances where hot ash has been sucked into the intake system and consequently the paper air-cleaner element has caught on fire rendering the vehicle inoperable. Through the research by Volvo's Accident Research Team the development of a brass gauss filter became a standard feature on all Volvo trucks some years back to eliminate this problem."

One of the greatest advantages of CAFS is less water usage with faster extinguishing times along with less operator fatigue, due to lighter hose lines. Instead of one 38mm (1-1/2") hose line one person can now operate a 64mm (2-1/2") hose line with ease.

"We used a locally produced Kevlar wrap to cover all the brake air-lines and components and critical electrical system components," Mr Gray Moffatt added. "The fuel tank is of steel construction instead of the traditional aluminium fuel tank found on a road going version of the same truck."

The new bright green Volvo FM9's will head the rural-urban interface team and will be supported by other vehicles in the ACT Fire Brigade's fleet.
 

[JamesGar]

Sorry on a roll whilst on a night shift:

I'm sure some of you've seen it but have a look at this link to NSW RFS CAFS truck at Heathcote:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~g1412r/h1a.htm

Very nice cab/chassis, and I guess with 3800L tanks and a CAFS pump that the water from this truck would go a long way!

[Wagon 1]

Nice how the minister pulled that out her butt!! If Blackwood hadn't pushed to get that CAFS system off there own back we would never have even looked at it. So CFS, if your going to look at more, how about actually telling us!!

[oz fire]

Maybe not for urban applications - but there are a number of different rural CAFS units running around and there have been a number of other units tried. Once saw a huge extinhuisher style on KI that I think Belair was trialing - not sure what happened  - I think it ran of CABA cylinders. During those fires there was also one from Cherry Gardens and Morphett Vale - so there are a few rural around - maybe the focus should be rural as well - less water, less people, less resources - the foam proportioners were a good start though, now we just need to continue

[Wagon 1]

Sorry to not make it clear, the CFS hasn't looked at CAFS, the brigades that purchase thier own appliances have. The one Bradbury had lasted 5 mins, and has now been replaced with a normal pump.

[rescue5271]

One would hope that they dont make any more CAFS units and if they did they need to ask brigades before hand and let them make up there mind. From what I have read about blackwoods  may be it was not all that they had wanted or did they want it?

[OMGWTF]

are you jokin' blackwood would have loved it...

any excuse in sturt group to be "ground breaking"... lol, bout time there group was told to comply with regional orders

[rescue5271]

It was not ground breaking as there where two other CAFS unots around before blackwoods,and from what a few of there members have said they wished they never had it because of the problems thay have had and the cost...

[OMGWTF]

hmmm the sarcasm wasnt dripping enough?
nm.. im just in a bad mood.

i agree with you rescue5271
btw the supposed ground breaking thing wasnt that it was a CAFSunit it was the whole CAFS pumper thing...

they should have just got a standard 24P, much better for there area they service, unfortunately this wouldnt look "cool" enough for them, i think its called "MFS wannabe syndrome"

[Wagon 1]

I think Blackwood should have gone bigger, the 500 GPM CAFS pump is a one off as Darley don't often build them off the shelf like that, its either the Snuffer, or the larger 1000 GPM + pump.

Also having looked at the truck, is it set up like a proper pumper, I didn't see many inlets or outlets on it. I was surprised to see them go with such a small pump, 500 GPM these days is sort of a bit lame, and in 10 years time that truck will be behind the 8 ball, but for a rural truck I am sure its great.

[fire03rescue]

Blackwood did want CAFS and it took about 8 years of hard work to finally get the project up and running.
With lots of work put in my brigade members, some went overseas to look at different ideas( paid for by themselves )
 Yes we were lucky the CFS said go for it, but it is an appliance made by firefighters for firefighters. We where not the only brigade at the time to have ok from CFS HQ
As for MFS wannabees lol -
Remember if you don't try new ideas you go nowhere.
I think that CAFS is away of the future.
Knock if you like but please come and have a play first.
I would take CAFS over a 24p any day

[mattb]

CAFS does have some disadvantages, but for knock down of fire involving A class materials it is simply fantastic. The technical research backing up this is available on the net in lots of places, but the real results come from experience and our CAFS unit has certainly proved it to us.

We haven't had the opportunity to try in on a proper flammable liquid fire yet but looking at the amount and quality of the foam produced I would use that over the old foam inductor branch any day.

I think CAFS does have a place in the CFS, whether it is on a urban style pumper or a quick attack vehicle depends on the type of brigade it is going to, but in our situation it works well.