Author Topic: Where do we draw the line (Read 19152 times)

Scania_1 · « **on:** July 22, 2006, 09:42:35 AM »

Interested to hear peoples opinion on what jobs SES/CFS should or shouldnt be attending. Like retrieving bogged vehicles and broken down cars. These are jobs for the RAA and tow trucks. Emergency services are for emergencies are they not? Not for people who dont want to spend money..
eg 191201 03:57:55 16-07-06 FLEX-A ALPHA 1600 MFS: RESPOND To 16/07/06 03:54,BURRA SES,BURRA, MAP 0 A 0 ,,WOMAN, VEHICLE & TRAILER STRANDED 20KM OUT OF BURRA ON MORGAN RD. UNABLE TO GET TOW TRUCK TO ASSIST. CONTACT MFS COMMS,75129*CFSRES:
-= SES Burra response =-

Manuel · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2006, 09:49:58 AM »

yea i think there should be some guidelines on this, there are some things you just wonder. but remember pager messages don't always say what it is, she could have been stuck in her car in some water or something, so you never know without the details.

PF_ · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2006, 10:27:50 AM »

call out is a call out, good way to pass some time when youre sitting on your donkey with nothing else to do. Or when you get asked to do something, just hoping that pager is going to go off....

Scania_1 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2006, 02:14:52 PM »

I know that the SES refer some of the tree jobs they go to , to Mr Clip as they are not emergencies. Just trees that need a trim or ones they think might fall down. People shouldnt take advantage of emergency services thats all. Like getting towed out when bogged cause they dont want to pay a tow truck etc.

rescue5271 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2006, 03:38:46 PM »

Time the public paid for all these bogged cars,RAA Will charge so why don't we??? But then again people would say that is way we pay a emergency service fee

backburn · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2006, 11:10:51 AM »

We do not mind going to these types of call outs. It usually because someone is in trouble and needs help. They are always embarrassed about it,so give them a brake.

rescue5271 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2006, 07:52:03 PM »

What a kit kat break

backburn · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2006, 09:21:51 AM »

I would prefer the old Tosca bar thanks

firetruck · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2006, 09:53:04 AM »

i agree with backburn. Personally, I don't care at all what we jobs we do. I feel that if a person is in a time of need, we're there to help.

bajdas · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2006, 10:49:00 AM »

Some Units have been to so many 'young adults in 4wd getting bogged at night' that they are refusing to risk the vehicles and equipment. Many kilometers into a national park near a major country city).

But other Units (near country beaches) will do the job because it is a risk to property, like a house.

The best incident was 5 young adults stuck in a bogged vehicle in a national/conservation park they were not allowed in. This was on a stormy wet night.

I THINK the Unit responded to collect the people and transport them to the township to prevent hypothermia risk because they had no bedding in the bogged vehicle.

But because it was late at night, they left the vehicle bogged. The track the vehicle was on was not used so no risk of a further MVA.

The young adults were not happy because they had to face their parents (the owner of the bogged 4wd) and arrange for the vehicle to be removed by friends the next day.

I personally think this is good, because they removed the emergency risk to life. Then the rest is not an emergency, but an inconvenience.

backburn · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2006, 11:14:29 AM »

Quote from: ath on July 22, 2006, 09:42:35 AM

Emergency services are for emergencies are they not? Not for people who dont want to spend money..
eg 191201 03:57:55 16-07-06 FLEX-A ALPHA 1600 MFS: RESPOND To 16/07/06 03:54,BURRA SES,BURRA, MAP 0 A 0 ,,WOMAN, VEHICLE & TRAILER STRANDED 20KM OUT OF BURRA ON MORGAN RD. UNABLE TO GET TOW TRUCK TO ASSIST. CONTACT MFS COMMS,75129*CFSRES:
-= SES Burra response =-

It does not say all on the pager but may be the vehicle & trailer where half on the road or in a more dangers position who knows just get out there and help ( if only no filter)

CaptCom · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2006, 11:27:01 AM »

Obviously each incident needs to be judged on its merits..

People need to be reminded that we are volunteers and do give up our time freely...BUT employers wouldn't be happy to know that you were away from work for 4hrs to retrieve a bogged vehicle..

There was an issue on the weekend...landowner buring old hay and loppings...creating much smoke near township...some complained..SAPOL were going to call us to extinguish..under these circumstances, we have no right to extinguish, it wasn't threatening property or out of control..

Sometimes it's our efficiency and abilities that get us jobs..and it doesn't look good to say ..sorry not in our j&p's ..

firetruck · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2006, 11:59:21 AM »

Quote from: CaptCom on July 24, 2006, 11:27:01 AM

Obviously each incident needs to be judged on its merits..

People need to be reminded that we are volunteers and do give up our time freely...BUT employers wouldn't be happy to know that you were away from work for 4hrs to retrieve a bogged vehicle..

There was an issue on the weekend...landowner buring old hay and loppings...creating much smoke near township...some complained..SAPOL were going to call us to extinguish..under these circumstances, we have no right to extinguish, it wasn't threatening property or out of control..

Sometimes it's our efficiency and abilities that get us jobs..and it doesn't look good to say ..sorry not in our j&p's ..

I thought you were able to extinguish if the burn posed a threat to public safety (in this case smoke drifting over roads and lowering vision), but i suppose the decision to extinguish is taken job by job.

CaptCom · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2006, 12:28:47 PM »

The smoke was not creating any visibility issues..just some neighbours being painful..

firetruck · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:30:39 PM »

oh fair enough

The Assistant · « **Reply #15 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:53:38 PM »

For starters CFS are NOT allowed to tow vehicles with their appliances according to a new COSO and if something gets damaged when you are the CFS is not liable.

Are we honestly going to be another RAA, when these calls come in the operations centres should be directing the calls elsewhere.

Honestly people is it really worth getting out of bed at 3 in the morning to go and get some person that has bogged themselves out of the POO when it could be done by a tow truck, when life is in danger yes i agree, but in a normal sitaution NO.

Toast · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2006, 02:07:54 AM »

Quote from: The Assistant on July 24, 2006, 05:53:38 PM

For starters CFS are NOT allowed to tow vehicles with their appliances according to a new COSO and if something gets damaged when you are the CFS is not liable.

I'm an idiot :d

CaptCom · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:08:15 AM »

I would expect that each situation is judged on it's merits..eg if it's a life threatening situation or if Burnside Car1 was at risk of being lost...tow it..

We had lengthy discussions about some appliances wanting tow chains..now this I am totally opposed to ...snatch strap yes, chain...absolutely NOT!.. imagine the OHS if a chain whipped and collected some

backburn · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:27:03 AM »

Not much different different damage to the body I would say snatch strap has a whip thing going as a chain would fling back same speed, they both would hurt.

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2006, 11:21:44 AM »

I think the issue with Burnside Car 1 was that it was sinking, with crew on board, and the group control centre wouldn't respond any help to them because they said CFS trucks weren't allowed to tow... We can tell the service has turned to S*^*7 when we're not even allowed to rescue our fellow firefighters..

Darius · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2006, 01:18:50 PM »

Quote from: CFS_firey on July 25, 2006, 11:21:44 AM

I think the issue with Burnside Car 1 was that it was sinking, with crew on board, and the group control centre wouldn't respond any help to them because they said CFS trucks weren't allowed to tow... We can tell the service has turned to S*^*7 when we're not even allowed to rescue our fellow firefighters..

2 points:
1) the group base does not make the decisions just passes them on from the incident controller / operations officer.
2) that incident with burnside car 1 during the floods was a little more complicated than has been written here, there were good reasons why that decision that was made (obviously!).

regarding towing, I think some of you need to read the rules a bit more carefully, it doesn't say "no towing" fullstop. Towing someone's private car with an appliance is a lot more dodgy than towing another appliance on the fireground, for example.

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2006, 12:37:34 AM »

Roger, Darius...

I haven't seen the rules... Are we allowed to 'tow' a vehicle with a winch attached to a CFS vehicle?

rescue5271 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2006, 08:11:29 AM »

Its a Grey area like alot of the SOPS,and what you think it says someone else say the other....

medevac · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2006, 09:27:17 AM »

Quote from: firetruck on July 24, 2006, 11:59:21 AM

I thought you were able to extinguish if the burn posed a threat to public safety (in this case smoke drifting over roads and lowering vision), but i suppose the decision to extinguish is taken job by job.

we have no authority to extinguish a burn outside of the fire season, unless SAPOL have investigated and have requested we do so.

btw; what was the situation with B car 1?

backburn · « **Reply #24 on:** July 27, 2006, 09:18:31 AM »

I was told we could extinguish fires in non fire seasons if they have things in there that are not to be burnt. Like treated pine, plastic, tyres ect

Author Topic: Where do we draw the line (Read 19152 times)

Manuel

PF_

rescue5271

rescue5271

Toast

rescue5271