Author Topic: CFS Star (Read 36978 times)

Firefrog · « **on:** June 25, 2006, 08:59:12 PM »

It has recently come to our attention that CFS corporate has refused a request for a brigade to use the cfs star on station clothing. We don't have all the details but understand the brigades request was disallowed without discussion or any type of consultation.

Of course this policy has been discussed before and there are varying views. We find the decision by CFS corporate to be a very strange one.

In these days of low morale and rapid change, volunteers are under increasing pressure, we see the issue of identity and belonging to be a significant issue.

Although safirefighter.com for the most part tries to be impartial in most debates this one has raised our ire. It is our view that volunteers should have the right to serve under the insignia that the volunteer determines to be the right one. If a brigade chooses the historical insignia of the CFS then that should be allowed without question!

Do you feel consulted? We wonder if CFS have bothered to listen to the undercurrent of ill content surrounding the introduction of the corporate logo. Although the logo has been around for a few years now, many brigades have successfully purchased clothing with the star. It is now apparent that many suppliers have been warned by CFS corporate that reproducing the star is a breach of copyright.

If you feel strongly about this issue please comment here and make your selection in the poll above.

We think it is time that CFS corporate listens to the volunteer not simply dictate another inane policy to the people who make the service possible.

PF_ · « **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2006, 09:12:00 PM »

Yes without restrictions.

Allow the star on all clothing. I got a "fire and rescue" shirt and a star would look a lot better and on all gear. What was the reason it was removed and replaced?

The star is the symbol for firefighters, st andrews cross and being firefighters we hsould ahve it on all gear.

strikeathird · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2006, 11:24:32 PM »

As per SOP I will not follow rules that endanger my safety or the safety of others. Not being able to wear the star endangers my safety... Hence why all my gear and other clothing has the star... Including my trusty Cairns Structural helmet..

And I know people from HQ read this... So how bout you scrap the stupid rule about not being able to use the traditional logo and we wouldn't have this problem of dis-obeying rules...

In all seriousness... The historic / traditional emblem.. that being the star.. means alot to some people... Why deprive the VOLUNTEERS who give their time to the communities and risk their lives for free, the right to wear the emblem that they respect and Cherish !

F.B.R.T · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2006, 12:06:23 AM »

The CFS and MFB if I recall correctly, both went with a new corporate insignia at around the same time.

I understand not too many MFB boys were overly happy about their traditional insignia shown on all appliances being replaced with the new "corporate" emblem.

Must admit, didn't here too many CFS members getting annoyed about their new "corporate" logo, but I would be annoyed if our service tryed to change our traditional insignia.

Can anyone remember what each point of the star (or cross) of St. John means?

I think it was perseverance,tact,loyalty,dexterity,gallantry,sympathy,explicitness,observation.

Let me know if I'm wrong!!

Regards, Mat

Mike · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2006, 07:50:48 AM »

Its the emblem we are proud of....
A matter which has been discussed many times before.

definately YES.... Im hesitant to say without restriction though. Dont see any issues with asking for approval first.... Keeps everything looking proffesional (hopefully) and weeds out the ideas that are just plain wrong.

CaptCom · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2006, 09:56:52 AM »

I think that if the restrictions were outlined and adhered to, the more we use it the greater our profile and identity.

We do seem to be losing some identity and definitely an issue like this can dent morale...it's very disappointing to hear that it was without discussion or consultation.

I think that the star is far more professional looking than the taxi logo...

Firefrog · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2006, 10:23:52 AM »

Unfortunately the restrictions include the colour of the clothing and who you can buy it from. Brigades cannot go to a local supplier!

Part of this issue is freedom for brigades to choose a blue t-shirt if that's what they want. I am not suggesting a complete free for all, but we suggest a compromise that goes something like:

A brigade may purchase station wear from any supplier that falls within the following guidelines:
Either a Blue or Green Polo style top or T-shirt with either the CFS star or the CFS corporate logo. A brigade should aim for a consistent look and avoid a mix of insignia/logo within the brigade.

Of course that is a simplistic view but the current policy is too restrictive.

Mike · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2006, 10:26:30 AM »

Quote from: Firefrog on June 26, 2006, 10:23:52 AM

Unfortunately the restrictions include the colour of the clothing and who you can buy it from. Brigades cannot go to a local supplier!

Part of this issue is freedom for brigades to choose a blue t-shirt if that's what they want. I am not suggesting a complete free for all, but we suggest a compromise that goes something like:

A brigade may purchase station wear from any supplier that falls within the following guidelines:
Either a Blue or Green Polo style top or T-shirt with either the CFS star or the CFS corporate logo. A brigade should aim for a consistent look and avoid a mix of insignia/logo within the brigade.

Of course that is a simplistic view but the current policy is too restrictive.

That sounds fair..... maybe to add something about the multitude of printing that happens on the back of them as well???

strikeathird · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2006, 11:10:00 AM »

Couldn't agree more Frog and mike !!

Oh, and how bout supporting LOCAL business instead of going interstate for the 'Official' CFS shop !!

That would be a start!

E-ONE · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2006, 01:14:19 PM »

There should be guidelines for all "station wear" but first there needs to a aggreement as to what the differences are between station wear and casual/recreation wear.

heres what i think.
Station wear is the prescribed uniform for use at training and prolonged incidents, Public relation etc. this usually means short sleeves t shirts and long sleeved workshirts along with windsheaters. (either blue or green)

Casual recreation wear is the polo shirts, polar fleece tops, aussie firefighter tops etc. bascially everything that isnt station wear.

i believe that the star should be allowed to be used on station wear only. as for the amount of different prints on the back of "station wear" there should be some something standard.

theres the typical

FIRE FIRE sa country
& FIRE
RESCUE service

but what would people think of having a print on the back identifying the brigade and there specialties

For Example:

F I R E
RESCUE
HAZMAT
for someone like burnside but if the brigade was just normal it would plainly be fire or if they were and rcr brigade fire and rescue...

My opinion only... (apologies for the dodgy diagram things lol)

CaptCom · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2006, 01:42:09 PM »

I agree with anything that creates uniformity...we can't even agree as to whether it should be blue or green..

over here we are big fans of green only..blue is for MFS as far as we are concerned..

I think if they said right...here's what you can have..have as much of as you like...with the star etc...and after that, it can't have the star...probably exactly what is happening now..

I look at MFS and see how much better they look because they have such strict guidelines with what they wear...we just look like a bunch of misfits sometimes with a conglomerate of clothing...they have been talking about a deployment uniform since we went to Sydney in 2001..still nothing!

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2006, 02:31:15 PM »

Firefrog, am I to understand from what you said that they have banned blue shirts as well as the star??

I believe the CFS should have a standard uniform, but that should be in consultation with the volunteers... My brigade has had the star logo on blue shirts since we first started getting them - its a bit rude to demand we change, without sound reason...

Seniorfirey70, see this article on the CFS for the star's meaning.

Firefrog · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2006, 02:37:14 PM »

My Understanding is that green is the only approved colour and for use with the logo.
I haven't read the policy but have it reliably that any request to use the star is being declined.

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2006, 02:41:53 PM »

That makes me angry

Is it illegal to use the CFS star without the permission of CFS corporate? I mean - is it a breach of copyright, or as volunteers, do we also own the copyright to the star?

Firefrog · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2006, 02:57:35 PM »

Yes - Suppliers have been warned not to duplicate it....

Mike · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2006, 03:10:50 PM »

Something to do with the star containing the crown aswell....

either way...our brigade chose blue + star a long time ago.... and recently voted to retain that standard (hmmm... where to from here)

strikeathird · « **Reply #16 on:** June 26, 2006, 07:14:09 PM »

F*** them ! They want to make poxy rules about the star, they CLEARLY haven't got their priorities right !1

How about they focus there "time and efforts" on getting brigades stations that they can "SAFELY" turn up to and walk into when on firecalls.. Not having to keep the truck parked out the front of someones house, or walk 10 metres out the back to the toilet..

How bout they get ALL of us equipement and standardised PPE to make our duties safer..

How about they devise better training strategies where courses aren't dumped at the last minute and where we can have as many operators trained that want to do the course and not limited cause we have 10 already trained on the books... 8 of which dont turnout...

How about they give us trucks that dont fall to bits / have 100 million problems when they are still new...

How about they give us trucks which will effectively do the jobs in which they may be required !

Instead there time, effort and money is spent giving an INTERSTATE company , the official rights to a "CFS SHOP", and bring in stupid rules saying we can't get the star printed on shirts..

Well...... while I continue to risk my life and serve the community without pay, and with little thanks, I will wear the star, and I will wear it with pride !

End rant/

rescue5271 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 26, 2006, 07:27:23 PM »

I agree with you srikeathird,why is it that one region has one rule and one region has a different rule,come on wake up dont they think people will check what is going on around the place..... So how long has the star been around and in use by the fire service and not only in this state.....

Heavy Rescue · « **Reply #18 on:** June 26, 2006, 08:27:13 PM »

Well said Strika, unfortunately the CFS hierachy has lost touch with the volunteers in many many ways. This issue is just one of many where they clearly do not understand what the vollies want, no wonder our operational firefighter numbers are now down to 6000 (thats not a typo).

The sooner some of these people actually start working for the Volunteers and not against them the sooner our numbers may actually increase.

If you guys want the star on a blue shirt with pink dots and orange stripes then just go out and get them. Our brigade bought blue shirts and took them to a screen printer, he printed what ever we wanted on them. You can also find many embroiderers that will also put the star on whatever you want, just make a couple of calls - it wont take you long.

medevac · « **Reply #19 on:** June 26, 2006, 08:33:37 PM »

^^if i were that screen printer then i would be fairly nervous, since he/she would have breached copyright...

Toast · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2006, 03:48:19 AM »

I don't see any reason to clamp down how we can use our emblem. The appalling taxi logo is fine for CFS corporate, but for us on the ground, the star looks far, far better. I still don't see anything wrong with a shirt:

Code: [Select]

        Front:                                   Back:
        (Star)                                   FIRE
[Brigade] Fire&Rescue                   &
                                                RESCUE

Firefrog · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2006, 10:39:26 AM »

It's intersting you raise the point about staff. We understand there a less restrictions on the use of the star by staff than by volunteers. Isn't much of the staff uniform supplied with the star...can anyone confirm or deny...

CaptCom · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2006, 09:26:45 AM »

Perhaps this topic could be raised at the Summit on the weekend..if anyone is going...should be the ideal time to discuss it.

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 28, 2006, 03:23:14 PM »

Quote from: strikeathird on June 26, 2006, 07:14:09 PM

F*** them ! They want to make poxy rules about the star, they CLEARLY haven't got their priorities right !1

How about they focus there "time and efforts" on getting brigades stations that they can "SAFELY" turn up to and walk into when on firecalls.. Not having to keep the truck parked out the front of someones house, or walk 10 metres out the back to the toilet..

How bout they get ALL of us equipement and standardised PPE to make our duties safer..

How about they devise better training strategies where courses aren't dumped at the last minute and where we can have as many operators trained that want to do the course and not limited cause we have 10 already trained on the books... 8 of which dont turnout...

How about they give us trucks that dont fall to bits / have 100 million problems when they are still new...

How about they give us trucks which will effectively do the jobs in which they may be required !

Instead there time, effort and money is spent giving an INTERSTATE company , the official rights to a "CFS SHOP", and bring in stupid rules saying we can't get the star printed on shirts..

Well...... while I continue to risk my life and serve the community without pay, and with little thanks, I will wear the star, and I will wear it with pride !

End rant/

I agree striker its just ridiculous how the traditional CFS star isnt allowed to be printed on t-shirts my 2 CFS t-shirts i brought from Lucindale Field Days only have the new logo and not our traditional one

Its just ridiculous

rescue5271 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 28, 2006, 04:10:32 PM »

Yep,may be one of the paid staff that are going as a Volunteer can bring it up....

Poll

Should CFS corporate let CFS volunteers use the Star on Brigade clothing?

Author Topic: CFS Star (Read 36978 times)

PF_

strikeathird

strikeathird

strikeathird

rescue5271

Toast

rescue5271