GOs/DGOs responding on every call

[Alex]

Just wondering peoples thoughts.

Listening to a job on the scanner just now there is a DGO responding to a fire alarm. Arrives and assumes incident control, nothing showing. Oncoming appliances downgraded.

This group has a GO or DGO respond on almost every call no matter how minor [ie rubbish fires, fire alarms] and generally arrive first as the incident controller.

Now im happy for them to respond on road crash persons reported, confirmed structures, grassfires TFB days, HAZMAT, significant incidents etc, but in my opinion, not only is responding to EVERY job unnecessary per the CFS response schedule [SOP 2?], but it also deprives brigade officers of any real experience in running jobs and puts another vehicle on the road for no real reason.

So, is it a necessary resource at all jobs? Are brigade officers not trustworthy to run jobs?
 
Thoughts?

[safireservice]

Must only be in certain groups? The group im in the group officers only come out if requested or as you eluded to confirmed structure etc where they are required. They still might monitor a call to see if there is anything in it. Maybe they're bored?

[Pipster]

or maybe they will burn themselves out, and the Group will get new ones!!!

Pip

[pumprescue]

Must be the classic micro managers, just like the brigades with captains that insist on riding in charge on EVERY single job. Its just unprofessional.

[FAO]

A GO or DGO attending to an alarm activation is ok for those response areas where the primary brigade cannot crew an appliance. It's a step up from the Captain or Lieutenant attending in their work ute in thongs, stubbies and a t-shirt to reset the FIP.

I feel any response by a GO/DGO should be P2 in the first instance to some incidents but not all.

[muscleandpluck]

A GO or DGO attending to an alarm activation is ok for those response areas where the primary brigade cannot crew an appliance. It's a step up from the Captain or Lieutenant attending in their work ute in thongs, stubbies and a t-shirt to reset the FIP.

I feel any response by a GO/DGO should be P2 in the first instance to some incidents but not all.

Bit unprofessional?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Geezus, is it not even considered that this might actually be a fire, until someone has arrived and investigated?
You lot make the Keystone cops look filtered good!!!!!

[FAO]

Bit unprofessional?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Geezus, is it not even considered that this might actually be a fire, until someone has arrived and investigated?
You lot make the Keystone cops look filtered good!!!!!

No, unprofessional is no-one arriving at all.

[Heavy Rescue]

Wasn't there recent bitching on here about brigades self-responding to jobs, how is having a Group Officer respond to every job any different?

They arent being turned out by anyone and the SOPs state fairly clearly what they are permitted to respond to (2nd alarm fires, MVA persons trapped etc), so why are they responding ?

I agree with Alex, if it happened in our area I reckon our brigade officers would be pretty shirty in having a GO there every call taking control and then handing back to them to take over once the bulk of the job was done. How are the brigade officers going to get any experience at all.

I  can almost see that this could be justified in areas where the brigades struggle to get a truck out the door, but we are talking about an area only 10km's from the CBD of Adelaide that generally turns out two or three trucks to nearly every job.

[SA Firey]

This was brought up some time ago also and has always been clear in the COSO/SOP/OMG book.

A response to an AFA under the CFS SOP's is 2 X Appliances which are a minimum of 24's previously a 22, or 2 X 14's or QRV.

A group car is not an appliance, therefore if you want to make better use of a station appliance and also have a driver for it, take the group car to the station and be part of the crew responding in the appropriate vehicle for the job.

Also how does a brigade ever get the chance to manage a job as Incident Control if a GO/DGO is always there.Allow people to step up to the plate and get some experience running an incident.

[Alex]

A GO or DGO attending to an alarm activation is ok for those response areas where the primary brigade cannot crew an appliance. It's a step up from the Captain or Lieutenant attending in their work ute in thongs, stubbies and a t-shirt to reset the FIP.

Ahh yes... because we only attend fire alarms to 'reset the fip'.... sigh.

People pay monitoring fees to have fire trucks turn up, not a bloke in a car whether it be a CFS car or a private vehicle. If i owned a premises with a monitored alarm and the fire service were failing to attend id be asking the CFS some pretty serious questions.

And if a brigade cannot crew, then they should default to the next resource!!! Not just give up and get someone in a car to attend.

[FAO]

A GO or DGO attending to an alarm activation is ok for those response areas where the primary brigade cannot crew an appliance. It's a step up from the Captain or Lieutenant attending in their work ute in thongs, stubbies and a t-shirt to reset the FIP.

Ahh yes... because we only attend fire alarms to 'reset the fip'.... sigh.

People pay monitoring fees to have fire trucks turn up, not a bloke in a car whether it be a CFS car or a private vehicle. If i owned a premises with a monitored alarm and the fire service were failing to attend id be asking the CFS some pretty serious questions.

And if a brigade cannot crew, then they should default to the next resource!!! Not just give up and get someone in a car to attend.

Reality is Alex the guy in the ute is showing up and doing the minimum to normalise the alarm and this should be discouraged at all levels.

But sticking to the topic, it is also reality that the GO or DGO does attend fire alarms because the local brigade cannot crew the appliance. And although this isn't ideal, they can pass on further information to the responding appliances if any were still attending. It is only this situation I believe is satisfactory and as previously mentioned P2 only. Having a fire alarm ringing for half and hour or more whilst the second brigade responding can be very disruptive to the occupants and annoying to the neighbours.

Now in the incident you happen to monitor this situation may not apply. But as I don't know what brigade or group you were referring to and the question you posed was a general one, this is my response.

[Alex]

Trying to keep names out of it to avoid upsetting a few members on here who i know are from that group.

But we are talking about an urban fringe area, several brigades that are very good at crewing and getting out the door fast, all on each others doorstep. No concern here about prolonged response times.

[pumprescue]

Like a said, a simple case of micro managing.

[misterteddy]

so in this case, in 6 minutes, Brigade A and Brigade B (just)get their appliances out of the engine room

In 6 or 7 minutes, the GO or DGO attends the fire call, assumes Incident Control (remember that real fire stuff that we're supposed to do - not just push "shutup the noise" on the alarm panel) and determines a) there is no fire showing so no immediate upgrade is required and b) no urgent response by oncoming crews is warranted - reducing the risk of an urgent drive to the crews and the public. Early intel is critical to proper firefighting and resource planning - you blokes should try it sometime

Not all Groups and Brigades hate their GOs/DGOs or feel threatened by their attendance at any and all jobs, because they might see your inadequacies. Maybe you guys should try voting in competent people that you like working with into Group positions, and not complaining so much when other people have already.

[pumprescue]

If only it was that case Mr T, if only