Author Topic: Damage to appliances on deployment (Read 20880 times)

Alan (Big Al) · « **on:** November 30, 2012, 06:11:37 PM »

YANKALILLA 34 IS BACK HOME BUT NEEDS TO GO TO THE TRUCK HOSPITAL. DO NOT DRIVE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES J.EDGE :FROM G.C.C 6:53:06 PM - CFS Yankalilla Info

Its a damn shame the way some people treat appliances at large fires, if its not theirs then its there to be damaged.
What happened to people treating other brigade appliances like it was their own???

Bagyassfirey · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2012, 07:29:25 PM »

Must only be superficial surely...the terrain at Coomunga was hardly rough!

Alan (Big Al) · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2012, 08:14:11 PM »

from what one of our members saw apparently some took joy in carving up others appliances.. sure they get superficial damage but seriously alot of it can be avoided with treating equipment with a little respect.

HAPPY VALLEY *INFO* HV 34P OFF LINE....US NOT TO BE USED CAPT:( - H/V STATION

And they wonder why some brigades are reluctant to let their appliances go on these strike teams, sure its a CFS truck and you dont really have a choice but really who would like to see something they take pride in come back from a job in the state some of these appliances are in.

Benji · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2012, 08:20:48 AM »

The IMT spent a lot of time since Monday making sure all the trucks had been detailed, had the standard stowage and all reported faults/issues repaired before the out of town trucks left. Would be interesting to know what was wrong with them upon return to home stations.

Raven · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:22:22 AM »

I was on both Happy Valley 34P (Friday the 23rd, Saturday the 24th) and Yankalilla 34 (Sunday the 25th) at Coomunga.
When we got to Happy 34P on the Friday, it was a mess, things were damaged, not restowed correctly and the wheel'd been damaged. Before we even took it out on the fireground, the crew I was with put effort into cleaning her up and sorting everything out. And continued to look after the truck for the two days.
When we got Yank 34, the diff already had a dent in it from a sinkhole apparently, again that was a mess and things stowed incorrectly. We sorted that all out. But while out on the fire ground while out driver was negotiating a tight turn between fence posts, a single bit of fencing wire got snagged on the BA cabinet door and pulled a the door out, not completely, but enough so that it was well and truly not moving anywhere. So we had to disassemble what we needed to of the door, with another crew's help, and we moved the BA sets so they wouldn't get dust in them (later transferring them to a command car).
Our driver didn't do it on purpose and did feel somewhat bad after doing so.

FlameTrees · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2012, 11:31:40 AM »

Quote from: Alan (Big Al) on November 30, 2012, 08:14:11 PM

from what one of our members saw apparently some took joy in carving up others appliances.. sure they get superficial damage but seriously alot of it can be avoided with treating equipment with a little respect.

HAPPY VALLEY *INFO* HV 34P OFF LINE....US NOT TO BE USED CAPT:( - H/V STATION

And they wonder why some brigades are reluctant to let their appliances go on these strike teams, sure its a CFS truck and you dont really have a choice but really who would like to see something they take pride in come back from a job in the state some of these appliances are in.

Whats makes it "their" appliance? I believe the logo on the door says CFS, not an individual brigade. Areas such as west coast it is always going to be a case of they have to bring in extra trucks, and change the crews on those trucks. If the crew who took it out of staging to return home did not check the truck, and note any issues on the green check out T card (gasp! yes, T-Cards actually have a purpose), then it is the Brigade's fault for not ensuring their personnel do the right thing at staging. I get quite tired of asking, as a SAM, for crews T cards when they come into staging. The amount of times I have been looked at like I am an alien from the planet HFYVOIFCJOBJOK asking to be taken to their leader is laughable.

ftstn · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:08:20 PM »

Whilst it is a CFS appliance Flametrees a lot of volunteer brigades take a lot of pride in the condition of the trucks assigned to them, hence they feel a fairly large amount of ownership of each of the appliances that are assigned, unfortunately you also get some who do not have as much pride/ownership,

Raven is a good example even though it was not his brigads truck the crew had the pride and professionalism to do what they could to return the appliance to the condition it should have been left in give or take a few layers of dust and soot.

Maffu

Bagyassfirey · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:19:52 PM »

I think mostly any damage is usually done in the heat of battle like dents,scratches and broken things, however if you do notice a crew on an appliance being reckless say something at the time

and I agree yea it's great brigades take pride in appliances but lets not forget what their made for!

Alan (Big Al) · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:22:09 PM »

Quote from: FlameTrees on December 03, 2012, 11:31:40 AM

Whats makes it "their" appliance? I believe the logo on the door says CFS, not an individual brigade. Areas such as west coast it is always going to be a case of they have to bring in extra trucks, and change the crews on those trucks. If the crew who took it out of staging to return home did not check the truck, and note any issues on the green check out T card (gasp! yes, T-Cards actually have a purpose), then it is the Brigade's fault for not ensuring their personnel do the right thing at staging. I get quite tired of asking, as a SAM, for crews T cards when they come into staging. The amount of times I have been looked at like I am an alien from the planet HFYVOIFCJOBJOK asking to be taken to their leader is laughable.

Exactly its not THEIR appliance, but these appliances are allocated to a brigade. SOME brigades take absolute pride in their appliances and modify them and spend their hard earnt briagde funds on them, they then get sent to strike teams where SOME people have an absolute disregard for the trucks they are in because they dont belong to their brigade, granted things do go wrong and damage does occur accidentally but also people do intentionally damage vehicles because they have the DILLIGAF mentality..
Now if our appliance came back from a strike team having gotten intentional damage to it i would be peeved to say the least.

But to say that it belongs to CFS you dont have a choice so just sit with it is also the wrong attitude.. Some of us take pride in our equipment and treat it with respect and honestly if its the attitude of its OUR truck then so be it, i would rather that then its CFS' applliance who gives a toss.

And as far as Raven is concerned well done CFS needs more crews like yours out there

Damage in the heat of battle is apart of the deal, but damage from people who dont care is just wrong.

FlameTrees · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:08:50 AM »

I agree some Brigades take pride in their appliances.

Unfortunately for my brigade, we dont get brand new cars, we only get hand me downs, but we spend a lot of time and energy in maintaining them, only to have them lent out to other brigades who dont care for them.

However, the damage / missing gear issue is so easily resolved through the green T-Card. It would be interesting to see how many brigades decide to actually start doing the right thing if Region's started saying they wont book off gear / damage to a job if there is no green card done. I guess T-Cards could be a thread all on it's own......

Alex · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:02:06 PM »

Yep... This t-cards will put an immediate stop to reckless damage on appliances and idiots being rough with gear. It's also sure to stop the huge amount of theft that seems to occur on deployed/loaned appliances.

FlameTrees · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2012, 11:07:26 AM »

Dont think I said that Alex.

But it WILL ensure that the brigade doesnt pay for it. There will come a point when a brigade goes to region to get something repaired / replaced from a job, and they will be denied, as there is no green t-card to show that the damage / loss occurred on the job.

I know in my Region all active staging managers (myself included) are insisting on green t-cards being done. However, we will also refuse to sign off on anything that is obviously not job related (ie, try and tell me that you lost a set of spreaders on a grass fire, and I'm not signing off on it!).

So many people think that T-Cards and resource tracking is a pain in the proverbial, but it is all done for a reason.

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2012, 09:56:37 AM »

Quote from: FlameTrees on December 05, 2012, 11:07:26 AM

But it WILL ensure that the brigade doesnt pay for it. There will come a point when a brigade goes to region to get something repaired / replaced from a job, and they will be denied, as there is no green t-card to show that the damage / loss occurred on the job.

I'm not familiar with these T-cards. Are they supposed to be used for equipment that's missing, or all damage? (and what if damage isn't immediately noticeable?)

Alan J · « **Reply #13 on:** December 06, 2012, 10:28:06 AM »

The catch with the green T-cards is that the crew on the appliance has to care about it enough to complete one. All too easy to drive into staging with the comment that there are "no problems". No-one will be any the wiser until they next go to use it. I know at least one crew cared enough about our appliance to book it off-line. Many thanks to you if you are reading this. Fortunately nothing major.

However, there are a few things which worked just fine when it went away, but do not work now. Siren, dust contaminated OxyViva & failed pneumatic ladder gantry would not have been logged on a T-card as they were not used (to my knowledge) at Coomunga.

Other things would only be noticed by other people with sharp eyes. My driver spotted a fresh oil patch where one of our appliances had stood idling a few minutes earlier (One Tree Hill 24). Called the crew, confirmed the leak, & sent back to staging immediately.

The other thing which no T-card will capture is the cleaning which needs to be done on return to station. Dust & soot gets ***everywhere***. The outside was washed, and the cabin cleaned in Pt Lincoln, and very well too, but only to the extent that nothing inside it was lifted or moved in doing so. Neither were the lockers & contents cleaned. It took the whole brigade an entire evening to clean & restow all tools & etc. It's all very well to say the appliance belongs to the CFS rather than the brigade, however the brigade members supply the labour to maintain it. While there are no hard feelings about it - all appreciate that its use by others was necessary - it's not quite the same as cleaning up your own mess...

Alan J · « **Reply #14 on:** December 06, 2012, 10:58:36 AM »

The other thing to remember is that 10 days being used 24/7 on bull-dozed tracks through limestone country is a far cry from normal appliance wear & tear. Particularly when the water supply is several km away. The dirt between rocks quickly turns to bull-dust, and the suspension has. to. work. over. every. single. rock.

Even with the best intentions & care, the appliance is probably "aging" a few years 'normal use' in those few days.

FlameTrees · « **Reply #15 on:** December 07, 2012, 08:33:49 AM »

Granted, checking out at staging is not going to get everything checked.

But, hopefully, with lessons learned, we will be able to start acknowledging things like you have mentioned (dust in equipment, failing hydraulics etc) would be something that can be looked at.

It is a pity though that there are people who have attitudes of "not my truck, so i dont care".....it affects us all in the long run!

Shiner · « **Reply #16 on:** December 07, 2012, 03:17:30 PM »

"not my truck, so i dont care".....

Unfortunately there are those that also follow the philosophy that:

"it is our truck, so i don't care"....

Raven · « **Reply #17 on:** December 09, 2012, 06:33:51 PM »

On what I said way above about the BA cabinet on Yank 34, on a call today (With my own Brigade, Sellicks) we almost had the same thing happen to a different cabinet. Going through almond (I think) tree plantation type thing, very tight, and some of the branches were going into some odd places. Luckily we stopped and I noticed it, fixing it before it got too bad.
Though on the call, our 34 took numerous points of unintentional damage.

Quote from: Alan (Big Al) on November 30, 2012, 06:11:37 PM

YANKALILLA 34 IS BACK HOME BUT NEEDS TO GO TO THE TRUCK HOSPITAL. DO NOT DRIVE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES J.EDGE :FROM G.C.C 6:53:06 PM - CFS Yankalilla Info

And about this, I was talking to a friend of mine, member at Sellicks we me, he was once at Yank and still talks to people there. Apparently the axle received damage on its trip home, and may possibly be a total write off.

Alan J · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2012, 05:56:09 PM »

I'd be wondering if the axle was damaged at Coomunga, but clocked up enough
km on the trip home to fail other components. Lots of ankle & suspension
breaking holes in limestone. I recovered a couple of cones with "Yank 34"
on them from one such hole. Almost 1M across & nearly as deep. Tight
squeeze between the hole & a tree...

Did you mean it's the axle that's possibly beyond economical repair,
or the whole appliance?

Raven · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2012, 06:06:09 PM »

Some of them were quite insane. I had a look at a few of them, almost fell into one personally. Almost.

If I understand correctly, the entire appliance. if I'm correct, I presume the bill to have everything repaired isn't worth it. But I am not completely sure. I'll see if I can find out more.

Alan (Big Al) · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2012, 06:19:59 PM »

Even buying a new cab-chassis would be cheaper then replacing the appliance with a new one.. summertown had theirs fixed after it rolled.

Raven · « **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2012, 06:23:25 PM »

I know Yank 34 needs a lot of work.
To add to what I've already said above, I remember being told by John Edge that if you get a bit of water on the pump controls that they wouldn't work at all. Something about them not being constructed to our climate, can't exactly remember what he said about it.

Bagyassfirey · « **Reply #22 on:** December 15, 2012, 06:33:25 PM »

I was at Coomunga day 1,2,3,4 and saw crews on "Yank 34" do some interesting things. None of which would effect the appliance physically but made me scratch my head! Surely it can't be a write off if it got driven Pt Lincoln - Adelaide! Funnier things have happened I guess.

kiwifirefighter · « **Reply #23 on:** December 15, 2012, 08:02:22 PM »

It might not be worth while buying a new chassis as i know that 2 years ago the appliance spent time at Moores having its deck fixed after it snapped, and i don know how they fixed it, but our appliance had supported welded underneath so that might be a reason for not transplanted the back onto another chassis

Alan J · « **Reply #24 on:** December 15, 2012, 09:08:59 PM »

according to SACFS promotions unit,
Yank 34 : Make and Model: Hino Ranger Pro 8Z
I wonder if it's the same model as the Hino lemon which was under
Blackwood CAFS for a year or so. Spent more time in repair than
on the road, or so it seemed at the time. IIRC the tally was
something like 2 engines, 3 diffs & maybe a gearbox in <2 years.