ECP Model to be rolled out on Limestone Coast

[Skippy]

I found this interesting, but should be a good idea with the growing population on the Limestone Coast. I believe they will be based in Mt Gambier

LIMESTONE Coast paramedics are trialling a program intended to reduce the strain on medical services.


Three of the region’s experienced paramedics are undertaking specialist training so they can treat people suffering from non-urgent health complaints in their own homes.

Instead of arriving in a traditional ambulance, two of the specialist paramedics - known as extended care paramedics (ECP) - will arrive at the scene in a four-wheel-drive equipped to provide more than just emergency care.

While the vehicle will not be able to transport a patient to hospital, it will be stocked with supplies such as antibiotics, catheters and blood testing equipment.

Limestone Coast ambulance operations manager Andrew Thomas told The Border Watch he was hopeful this would prevent people who were suffering from low-acuity health complaints being taken to hospital unnecessarily.

“It’s a more community-based approach, and it’s been about three years in the making,” he said.

Mr Thomas said an example of the service could be somebody with a urinary infection who would ordinarily have to call an ambulance to access medical help being administered the appropriate antibiotic by an ECP.

The specialist paramedic would then write a care plan - to be shared with the patient’s usual GP and existing health providers such as aged care workers - to thoroughly tackle the issue and try to keep the patient in their home for longer.

“A traditional ambulance is usually at somebody’s house for 20 to 30 minutes ... these guys might be at a person’s house for up to two hours,” Mr Thomas said.

If the situation turned out to be serious enough to warrant a trip to the hospital, Mr Thomas said the specialist paramedics could always call for an emergency ambulance.

“It’s not replacing anyone - it’s filling in the gaps and providing extra clinical pathways for patients in country areas,” he said.

The pilot program will be tested in the Limestone Coast over 18 months, starting from the end of the year,

and will be regularly reviewed.

The initiative was made possible by the region’s successful funding application to Health Workforce Australia, which resulted in a previously reported $630,000 federal grant to extend the scope of its workforce.

Experienced intensive care paramedic David Dewar is one of the three South East men training to become an ECP.


He said he was excited by the program because it could give people with non-emergency conditions an option other than an ambulance or the hospital’s accident and emergency service.

“We might be able to avoid unnecessary long-distance transfers to the hospital, free-up emergency ambulance services and reduce the impact on our South East ambulance volunteers,” Mr Dewar said.

“It could also take the pressure off the emergency department at the hospital because we can divert patients away from there.”

[kellyp]

Hello Everyone,

Just a bit of news re Limestone Coast.

A patient transport company (no names)was instumental in sending letters, and copies of rates to all Limestone Regions health services and hospitals offering patient transport services at a creditable discount to SAAS. (About 1/3rd the price I believe). Apparently not one reply from any health service or hospital. The information was sent to DON's and CEO's.

Gives some credibitily to the reason why the government is pulling ambulances the Limestone Region (see story below).

No matter what is said about the good things (see below) it seems most are looking for free hand-outs in one form or another.

The paramedics will be run off their feet trying to keep up with petty 1st aid calls when their skills should be in the emergency arena (unless of course this a government plan for R&R of former injured para's.

Definitely a case for 1st Aid training to be bumped up to the citizens of Limestone Region so they can at least take care of the smaller cases locally don't you think.

It hasn't worked anywhere else in Australia or the world so wwhy would it work here.

Regards

Kelly

I found this interesting, but should be a good idea with the growing population on the Limestone Coast. I believe they will be based in Mt Gambier

LIMESTONE Coast paramedics are trialling a program intended to reduce the strain on medical services.


Three of the region’s experienced paramedics are undertaking specialist training so they can treat people suffering from non-urgent health complaints in their own homes.

Instead of arriving in a traditional ambulance, two of the specialist paramedics - known as extended care paramedics (ECP) - will arrive at the scene in a four-wheel-drive equipped to provide more than just emergency care.

While the vehicle will not be able to transport a patient to hospital, it will be stocked with supplies such as antibiotics, catheters and blood testing equipment.

Limestone Coast ambulance operations manager Andrew Thomas told The Border Watch he was hopeful this would prevent people who were suffering from low-acuity health complaints being taken to hospital unnecessarily.

“It’s a more community-based approach, and it’s been about three years in the making,” he said.

Mr Thomas said an example of the service could be somebody with a urinary infection who would ordinarily have to call an ambulance to access medical help being administered the appropriate antibiotic by an ECP.

The specialist paramedic would then write a care plan - to be shared with the patient’s usual GP and existing health providers such as aged care workers - to thoroughly tackle the issue and try to keep the patient in their home for longer.

“A traditional ambulance is usually at somebody’s house for 20 to 30 minutes ... these guys might be at a person’s house for up to two hours,” Mr Thomas said.

If the situation turned out to be serious enough to warrant a trip to the hospital, Mr Thomas said the specialist paramedics could always call for an emergency ambulance.

“It’s not replacing anyone - it’s filling in the gaps and providing extra clinical pathways for patients in country areas,” he said.

The pilot program will be tested in the Limestone Coast over 18 months, starting from the end of the year,

and will be regularly reviewed.

The initiative was made possible by the region’s successful funding application to Health Workforce Australia, which resulted in a previously reported $630,000 federal grant to extend the scope of its workforce.

Experienced intensive care paramedic David Dewar is one of the three South East men training to become an ECP.


He said he was excited by the program because it could give people with non-emergency conditions an option other than an ambulance or the hospital’s accident and emergency service.

“We might be able to avoid unnecessary long-distance transfers to the hospital, free-up emergency ambulance services and reduce the impact on our South East ambulance volunteers,” Mr Dewar said.

“It could also take the pressure off the emergency department at the hospital because we can divert patients away from there.”

[sba]

KellyP.


I fail to see the point of your post?

[kellyp]

Hello SBA,

How silly of me to use this forum for something that you might not be interested in.

With due respect this is a forum and I have always believed in the democratric right to place items in the arena (which may not be interesting to one or two) for the general consumption and provide a point of opinion.

So the ECP's are intensive care paramedics specially trained. Well, why does the powers that be use The Royal District Nurses. They have been around for many more years than I can remember AND do exactly that, nursing. If ECP's are going to hold a masters degree then don't you think it a waste of time and money of the taxpayer when they should really be out there doing what they joined up to do instead of pussyfooting around doing what appears to be plain old 1st Aid.

This is a forum sunshine and you can have your say, as I can, so cop it sweet.

Regards

Kelly

KellyP.

It seems you have taken 2 unrelated stories to create your post.

1. Who cares who the privates approach it's their business. If the health services don't want to respond to then, again who cares?

2. ECPs are increasing Ambulane staffing in the region not reducing it! ECPs will be able to deal with low acuity cases in the patients homes/aged care facility therefore  freeing up emergency ambulances that normally would have been dealing with these minor cases and reducing local emergency workload.

3. The SA ECP program has been a huge success in reducing emergency ambulance responses and emergency department beds/time for a good % of minor cases that once would have once required an emergency Ambulance and emergency dept. bed to deal with. The SA program is so successful that Tasmania and ACT ambulance services have sent staff to SA to be trained as ECPs for their respective states.

ECPs are intensive care paramedics who receive further advanced training (in the future at University Masters level) and definitely not a R&R situation for anyone.

I fail to see the point of your post?

[Pipster]

I don't know alot about this whole topic, but my understanding of ECP's is that they do a lot more than the RDNS Nurses.

ECP's do things such as suturing (except for faces) and re-inserting catheters.

These type of treatments are often the sorts of things that the elderly get sent to Emerg Departments, sit there for hours on a busy night, as they are not considered urgent, and effectively clog up an Emergency bed, before eventually being treated & sent back home / Nursing home.

If an ECP, (or some other relevantly trained health care professional) can do those jobs in the patient's home / nursing home, without the need for an ambulance trip to hospital, clogging up a bed in the Emerg Dept, and then an ambo trip back home, isn't that a good thing for everyone involved ?

Pip

[kellyp]

Hello Pipster,

You are absolutely right.
If ECP's or other trained personel are able to treat early and save the cost and time of transport then that is a good thing.

My point is that the use of highly qualified paramedics (masters degree's) to do home visits to change a catheter etc seems a lot of unecessary training and cost when a RDNS are registered to do the exact same job. I am not in any decrying the ECP's rather the cost of additional training, vehicles etc.
Time wasting in emerg departments puts a strain on patients, hospitals and paramedics not withstanding the clogging up of the system and anything that helps to move patients along through system safely is a good thing.
I have just finished placement at a major hospital where ramping was evident and the holding up life saving ambo's and vehicles for what could seriously be
classed category 5 in the hospital category system.
It is not good enough and we know and it is not going to change dramatically anytime soon until we get more beds and appropriately trained staff.
If the ECP's can effect good results in their endeavours then so be it but a constant vigilance is warranted on patient time wasters (and there are many). I recall many years ago working within a major hospital ED and seeing the same malingerers coming through time and time again wasting valuable rescources.
Let me repeat myself. I am not against any activiity that will enhance patient care.

Regards
Kelly   

I don't know alot about this whole topic, but my understanding of ECP's is that they do a lot more than the RDNS Nurses.

ECP's do things such as suturing (except for faces) and re-inserting catheters.

These type of treatments are often the sorts of things that the elderly get sent to Emerg Departments, sit there for hours on a busy night, as they are not considered urgent, and effectively clog up an Emergency bed, before eventually being treated & sent back home / Nursing home.

If an ECP, (or some other relevantly trained health care professional) can do those jobs in the patient's home / nursing home, without the need for an ambulance trip to hospital, clogging up a bed in the Emerg Dept, and then an ambo trip back home, isn't that a good thing for everyone involved ?

Pip

[ftstn]

Are district nurses available 24/7 like paramedics ?, we all have frequent flyer's who could easily be dealt with at 2 in the morning by an ECP saving both an emergency crew on the initial call for higher priority calls, And a PTS crew to take them back,

Whilst i will take the overtime for a PTS job at stupid o'clock, I would much prefer the cost saving of not having to go in the first pace, and for the record I work PTS for my State Govt agency,

Matt

[kellyp]

Hello all,

I cannot tell whether or not RDNS nurses are available 24/7 as such in any given area. However, you are quite right about saving an emerg crew ambulance. Like I said previous it seems a waste of good training to have (Masters Trained) ECP doing what essentialy the local doctors/clinics could do and the cost to the taxpayer has not, it appears, been defined in real terms. Malingerers are many (especially late PM and early AM) and its not going to stop any time soon.

I believe that there are those out there who could do the ECP job quite efficiently and they are called VOLLIES.

Lets not forget that the Vollies have been looking after us for many years and with their skills upgraded one might find they will enjoy the challenge.

Regards

Kelly

Are district nurses available 24/7 like paramedics ?, we all have frequent flyer's who could easily be dealt with at 2 in the morning by an ECP saving both an emergency crew on the initial call for higher priority calls, And a PTS crew to take them back,

Whilst i will take the overtime for a PTS job at stupid o'clock, I would much prefer the cost saving of not having to go in the first pace, and for the record I work PTS for my State Govt agency,

Matt

[Pipster]

Isn't part  of the reason ECP's were introduced was because of the shortage of doctors, available to come out & do house calls?

And because the doctors couldn't get there ( or couldn't get there in a timely fashion) the patient would be sent to Emergency Depts, for non Emerg things?

I understand that in Mount Gambier, it is often a few weeks before you can get into see a GP (unless something has changed recently) - so by having something like an ECP, it'll free up doctors to do things ECP's can't!!

As for RDNS - wasn't it only in the last few years, there were several media reports about lack of funding to RDNS, and how RDNS were not going to be able to keep up with demand for their services?

And as for Masters degree qualified people doing the job as an ECP - are you saying that they are too over qualified?  If that is so, what should they be doing instead?

Pip                                                           

[sba]

I reply mindful I'm falling into Kelly's forum troll trap.

Matt and Pip are on the money !

[kellyp]

Hi Pip and SBA,

Don't worry about falling into a troll trap as I do not apply such things. Just constructive criticism that may some professionals who spend time trolling through universities at taxpayers expense proving that they are good at study.

RDNS might well be a NFP group contracted by government. So what is the problem for them getting some payment for each callout. They are DEGREE and Nationally registered whereas Paramedics are not.

Sorry about Gambier not having Vollies, maybe you should look into that and get it sorted.
SAAS is part of the emergency sector as is police and the fire department. So why don't we train up the police to do exactly what ECP's do considering they are all part of SA Health in one form or another.
ECP's attending Acute cases of low acuity (changing a bandaid perhaps) appears to be overkill for their skills training don't you think.

Paragraph 3 really tells the story somewhat of ECP's doing what they should not be doing as this is Registered Nurses and Doctors area and the SA Government should really spend OUR taxpayers monies on providing funds to the professionals in this area, not paramedic's (and there are some fabulous ones) who by their own desire became paramedics to specialise in the emergency field.   

I do not think for one minute that this is beyond 1st aid as previously mentioned in other posts. Vollies can be trained (except in Gambier) and provided with appropiate vehicles and equipment to attend and if an ambulance is required then they will call it in.
Or, the SA Health could use taxpayers funds to pay for registered nurses who would call it in if an ambulance is required also.
It is wrong to suggest that RDNS wouldn't get out of bed to attend, they are after all professionals and their duty of care extends far and wide.
Paramedics are health professionals (in a positively different field).
I'd like to see these same professionals working in an emergency department.
It appears that the lights and siren saga once again raises an issue. No one ever mentioned the need for these (especially for low acuity cases).

Regards

Kelly

I reply mindful I'm falling into Kelly's forum troll trap.

Matt and Pip are on the money !

1. We have no volunteers based in My Gambier. Our rural volunteers do a fantastic jobs offering care to low workload areas. However this type if care (ECP) requires more than 6 months training and limited experience.

2. RDNS is a not for profit business (contracted by government) using nurses trained to provide care to CHRONIC health problems in patients homes.

3. SAAS is the prehospital arm of SA Health. ECPs deal with ACUTE issues of a low acuity nature. RDNS won't attend at 3am to suture some one, unblock a IDC catheter at a nursing home, attend preform on site blood test pathology (with instant results from the analyses in their vehicle, provide antibiotics, and help palliative care patients with extra pain relief to allow them to be comfirtable and to die at home (as many wish)

All this is beyond what kelly describes as "first aid" and does requires someone
well trained and equipped.

Paramedics are health care professionals who provide care in the community, this is our office and domain for ACUTE health issues and not just lights and siren emergencies.

[Skippy]

If I may say something here - now im not part of the health industry.

BUT

from what I am reading I do not agree with you at all Kelly. Close family members have rendered the assistance of ECPs in the past, and, on one or two occasions I have been there watching their work. There is no way that someone would volunteer to be a "like a local doctor/clinician.

One - because they volunteer to assist in the prehospital service delivery/transporting to hospital so that trained and paid clincians can do the job.
Two - lets not forget that one does not automatically attain the ECP position: paramedic -> Intensive care paramedic -> ECP. So a vollie who has gone through 12-18 months of training, and, has been trained to provide basic emergency management should not be instilled with the obligation to provide the service which is regarded as the bridge between ambulance personnel and doctor.
And Three - How many vollies would actually want to go to a patients house for up to two hours (mentioned in this article) to establish a patient care plan or undertake the tasks mentioned by SBA? With work and family commitments I would say not many.

There's no escaping that ECPs do attend mundane taskings - like most emergency personnel do. However, I dont believe that a volunteer should be trained to undertake this training, only to call in a paramedic (who might be 100 km away) and waste time that could have been spent at hospital.

So whilst I dont have the clinical experience like you guys, I have witnessed the role of an ECP, and this is my personal opinion.

Cheers, Skip
 

[kellyp]

Hello Skippy,

I am not suggesting that ECP's attendance to patients in need is not for the public good rather the cost and the fact that there are appropiately skilled personel out there who could do the job just as well.
ECP's, as you state do do their job well and help many but it is an expensive case when they are attending to what is essentially a 1st aid case. The controllers receiving calls should be able to categorise each and every job to eliminate the malingerers and unfortunately there are many of these type of p-atient who slip through. The ECP's may well be out there attending to what appears to be a simple case when in reality a looming disaster is happening just down the road. If the ECP's have to travel more than 50 km to a patient then legislation should be enacted requiring registered doctors/Nurses to attend calls of need (maybe to support the ECP's).

I have been there when all services where involved in a serious incident (as a bystander alongside a highly qualified officer) and we watched and photographed poetry in motion. The silence, the attention, the skills of all services attending a life threatening incidident on Glen Osmond Road a couple of years ago, even the public stood in awe of the professionalism from all in attendance. You only get this from highly skilled professionals with co-ordination of services and the ECP's would undoubtably be part of these services. (A photo of part of that scene is to be the front cover of a forthcoming publication).
Don't get me wrong, I support any means to assist the public in their calls for help but I do believe that highly qualified ECP's are better placed to be ready for the follow up call (that looming disaster) rather than the 1st aid call.

You are quite right what you state Skippy and and as I stated I am not taking anything away from the ECP' skills and training other that the overall swatting a fly with a sledgehammer when a light touch would suffice.

Regards
Kelly.   
 

If I may say something here - now im not part of the health industry.

BUT

from what I am reading I do not agree with you at all Kelly. Close family members have rendered the assistance of ECPs in the past, and, on one or two occasions I have been there watching their work. There is no way that someone would volunteer to be a "like a local doctor/clinician.

One - because they volunteer to assist in the prehospital service delivery/transporting to hospital so that trained and paid clincians can do the job.
Two - lets not forget that one does not automatically attain the ECP position: paramedic -> Intensive care paramedic -> ECP. So a vollie who has gone through 12-18 months of training, and, has been trained to provide basic emergency management should not be instilled with the obligation to provide the service which is regarded as the bridge between ambulance personnel and doctor.
And Three - How many vollies would actually want to go to a patients house for up to two hours (mentioned in this article) to establish a patient care plan or undertake the tasks mentioned by SBA? With work and family commitments I would say not many.

There's no escaping that ECPs do attend mundane taskings - like most emergency personnel do. However, I dont believe that a volunteer should be trained to undertake this training, only to call in a paramedic (who might be 100 km away) and waste time that could have been spent at hospital.

So whilst I dont have the clinical experience like you guys, I have witnessed the role of an ECP, and this is my personal opinion.

Cheers, Skip
 

[Numpty2012]

Give up Kelly... Like every other post you hijack , trying to push a flawed argument, this one will also die off with everyone losing interest. 

You do not understand the ECP model and your constant referral to "first aid" is insulting and demonstrates your lack of insight.

You also sound to me like a right Ambulance spotter.!

Read the ECP fact sheet on SAAS website.

49.4% of ED presentations avoided and 5.3% of cases avoiding a hospital admission.

The cost savings are there,  the model is certainly effective and further expansion justified and everyone in the health system is happy (except you of course).

The ECP model fits perfectly in the Limestone Coast where it takes 3 days to see a GP and calling 000 for a ride to the ED is the easy option (and many think an entitlement after paying a whopping $76 per annul annum for  SAAS cover).  RDNS cannot deliver the service or provide the immediate response.  Emergency Crews do not need to respond to nursing homes for a UTI. Locum doctors and after-hours GP services are thin on the ground (despite huge federal govt grants) and SAAS is quite correctly plugging a gap and working smarter to reduce impact on emerg crews and resources.

SAAS don't have the luxury of saying no or sitting in the armchair poo pooing everyone else who has no solutions but plenty of opinions about how they should structure their important business and resources within a tight budget and ever increasing population demand.

Go push a different barrow.

[kellyp]

Hi Numpty 2012,

Give up what dear, pushing your barrow!

I do not hijack every other post and I do not push any flawed argument because I don't have one. All I am interested in is a better outcome for the taxpayers dollar.

If people lose interest then they won't read the posts and then a forum is no longer.

I am not an ambulance spotter, you might be but my paramedical (ambulance) training precludes such things.

Lack of insight well may be.


49.4% of ED presentations avoided and 5.3% of cases avoiding a hospital admission. Good figures if one is measuring out of 100% but it isn't.

I am happy if the cost savings are there and certainly happy if everything is as it seems.
Is there something you want to tell the forum about on these supposed figures?

Every body knows that the whopping $76 per annum for ambulance cover wouldn't cover the cost of the bedsheets and as previously stated the malingerers will always take advantage when there could be a looming disaster is just around the corner. So how many ECP's are to be deployed around the state? If it is working good.


You state that SAAS don't have the luxury of saying no or sitting in the armchair poo pooing everyone else who has no solutions but plenty of opinions about how they should structure their important business and resources within a tight budget and ever increasing population demand.

What are you doing exactly now Numpty.

I will push the government to scrap unnecessary costly programmes and I will push further for the right funding in the right area and not sqaundering millions of dollars on feel good programmes to make fat cat and armchair critics happy.

If the ECP's work then it's worth it but don't insult me suggesting I am insulting paramedics.

Regards

Kelly

[sba]

We really do need a warning sign.

"DON'T FEED THE TROLL"

[kellyp]

 
An armchair critic indeed.

kellyp

We really do need a warning sign.

"DON'T FEED THE TROLL"

[FlameTrees]

Looks like I've been trapped under the bridge too, but couldnt let this go.....

Hi Pip and SBA,

Don't worry about falling into a troll trap as I do not apply such things. Just constructive criticism that may some professionals who spend time trolling through universities at taxpayers expense proving that they are good at study.

RDNS might well be a NFP group contracted by government. So what is the problem for them getting some payment for each callout. They are DEGREE and Nationally registered whereas Paramedics are not.

Ummm...wrong. Have you not heard of the Bachelor of Human Sciences (Ambulance) that has been run out of Flinders University for a number of years now??? People who do a 3 year degree with no guarantee of a paramedic job at the end of it. At least a nursing degree pretty much guarantees a job.

Sorry about Gambier not having Vollies, maybe you should look into that and get it sorted.

It's not a matter of the community just going to SAAS and demanding a vehicle and training for a volunteer crew.

SAAS is part of the emergency sector as is police and the fire department. So why don't we train up the police to do exactly what ECP's do considering they are all part of SA Health in one form or another.

SAPOL MFS, CFS and SES as emergency services are part of SA Health?  WTF??? Seriously, what are you smoking to even think, let alone believe this. They may work with SA Health departments in some cases, but they are NOT under the SA Health banner in any way.


ECP's attending Acute cases of low acuity (changing a bandaid perhaps) appears to be overkill for their skills training don't you think.

Paragraph 3 really tells the story somewhat of ECP's doing what they should not be doing as this is Registered Nurses and Doctors area and the SA Government should really spend OUR taxpayers monies on providing funds to the professionals in this area, not paramedic's (and there are some fabulous ones) who by their own desire became paramedics to specialise in the emergency field.   

I do not think for one minute that this is beyond 1st aid as previously mentioned in other posts. Vollies can be trained (except in Gambier) and provided with appropiate vehicles and equipment to attend and if an ambulance is required then they will call it in.
Or, the SA Health could use taxpayers funds to pay for registered nurses who would call it in if an ambulance is required also.

It is wrong to suggest that RDNS wouldn't get out of bed to attend, they are after all professionals and their duty of care extends far and wide.

Have you ever tried to book a RDNS??  Last time I tried, there was about a 6 week waiting list. Do you really want anyone who has something like a blcked catheter to wait 6 weeks to get it done? Or should they go and further congest the rapidly decreasing GP office Or clog up an already over worked public health system?? Or heavens forbid, let us have an extension to an emergency service that already exists with highly qualified people who are already set up to provide an instant respone to these sorts of health issues.

Paramedics are health professionals (in a positively different field).
I'd like to see these same professionals working in an emergency department.
It appears that the lights and siren saga once again raises an issue. No one ever mentioned the need for these (especially for low acuity cases).

Most ECP jobs are dispatched as P4, P5 type cases. ECP vehicles are normally marked vehicles, but with covert lighting, as they are still used to first respond to P1 and P2 jobs if they happen to be the closest resource.


You seem to really have an issue with SAAS kelly.

[kellyp]

Hello Flametrees, and every respondent to my post regarding ECP's.

No, I do not have an issue with SAAS or any other emerg and or health service.

There are some reponses to my posts that saw through my topic reponses.

You have all read the posts and you have all reponded in a positive manner and I congratulate you all accordingly.

This is now over as I brought a decent discussion to fore and I shall now read with interest your final responses.

I am sorry if I upset some of you but I needed for you to pounce and give some virtiol (in a nice manner) which you did in support of the ECP'.

I support any manner of assistance to the public and as been stated the ECP programme has been rolled out around Australia and the world so it is not new but it is very effective and good luck chaps. Keep it coming.
Nice picture in The Bordertown newspaper.
Regards

Kelly

Looks like I've been trapped under the bridge too, but couldnt let this go.....

Hi Pip and SBA,

Don't worry about falling into a troll trap as I do not apply such things. Just constructive criticism that may some professionals who spend time trolling through universities at taxpayers expense proving that they are good at study.

RDNS might well be a NFP group contracted by government. So what is the problem for them getting some payment for each callout. They are DEGREE and Nationally registered whereas Paramedics are not.

Ummm...wrong. Have you not heard of the Bachelor of Human Sciences (Ambulance) that has been run out of Flinders University for a number of years now??? People who do a 3 year degree with no guarantee of a paramedic job at the end of it. At least a nursing degree pretty much guarantees a job.

Sorry about Gambier not having Vollies, maybe you should look into that and get it sorted.

It's not a matter of the community just going to SAAS and demanding a vehicle and training for a volunteer crew.

SAAS is part of the emergency sector as is police and the fire department. So why don't we train up the police to do exactly what ECP's do considering they are all part of SA Health in one form or another.

SAPOL MFS, CFS and SES as emergency services are part of SA Health?  WTF??? Seriously, what are you smoking to even think, let alone believe this. They may work with SA Health departments in some cases, but they are NOT under the SA Health banner in any way.


ECP's attending Acute cases of low acuity (changing a bandaid perhaps) appears to be overkill for their skills training don't you think.

Paragraph 3 really tells the story somewhat of ECP's doing what they should not be doing as this is Registered Nurses and Doctors area and the SA Government should really spend OUR taxpayers monies on providing funds to the professionals in this area, not paramedic's (and there are some fabulous ones) who by their own desire became paramedics to specialise in the emergency field.   

I do not think for one minute that this is beyond 1st aid as previously mentioned in other posts. Vollies can be trained (except in Gambier) and provided with appropiate vehicles and equipment to attend and if an ambulance is required then they will call it in.
Or, the SA Health could use taxpayers funds to pay for registered nurses who would call it in if an ambulance is required also.

It is wrong to suggest that RDNS wouldn't get out of bed to attend, they are after all professionals and their duty of care extends far and wide.

Have you ever tried to book a RDNS??  Last time I tried, there was about a 6 week waiting list. Do you really want anyone who has something like a blcked catheter to wait 6 weeks to get it done? Or should they go and further congest the rapidly decreasing GP office Or clog up an already over worked public health system?? Or heavens forbid, let us have an extension to an emergency service that already exists with highly qualified people who are already set up to provide an instant respone to these sorts of health issues.

Paramedics are health professionals (in a positively different field).
I'd like to see these same professionals working in an emergency department.
It appears that the lights and siren saga once again raises an issue. No one ever mentioned the need for these (especially for low acuity cases).

Most ECP jobs are dispatched as P4, P5 type cases. ECP vehicles are normally marked vehicles, but with covert lighting, as they are still used to first respond to P1 and P2 jobs if they happen to be the closest resource.


You seem to really have an issue with SAAS kelly.