CFS using K-codes

[Pipster]

An example of the CFS using k codes would of been last night

Both Roseworthy appliances, 34P & 24P responded to an incident around midnight last night. As you do, they both individually notified adelaide fire that they were responding to the incident. Half an hour later, they were paged to respond to an RCR in Hewett, which 359 were also called to. The issue was that they were still at the first incident (and hadn't notified they had finished their first incident 'cos they hadn't) and had to release one of their appliances to the RCR and then call for assistance from other brigades to assist in the first incident. Maybe if they were allowed to use K codes, Adelaide fire would of known they couldn't respond to the RCR and they would of sent another brigade to assist 359. What happens if the first incident was a k99 and then they were asked to attend a RCR with confirmed entrapments around the same time?

And a K code would have fixed that issue how....?

Pip

[Alex]

They would have called ALERTS and the brigade should have organised additional resources at that time. Thats the system the CFS STATE have organised.

As stated, we keep sending the jobs to brigades unless they tell us theyre unavailable.

[boredmatrix]

well thats an all round $hithouse system. 

At what point does everyone stop stroking their own individual ego's and start realising that  adelaide fire needs to co-ordinate and manage the resources it has.....instead of just being a dispatch function.

Not only will this mean resources are better utilised, but you can begin to maintain a record of what works, what doesn't, and who needs more resources in their areas.

    Everyone sits here arguing that some silly codes will fix everything without looking at the bigger picture!   - maybe a few insular bubbles need popping and eyes opened....

[Alex]

the theory was that basic MDTs would be introduced when SACAD surfaced... but $$$

[pumprescue]

Bordey has it in one!!

[Hazmat206]

An example of the CFS using k codes would of been last night

Both Roseworthy appliances, 34P & 24P responded to an incident around midnight last night. As you do, they both individually notified adelaide fire that they were responding to the incident. Half an hour later, they were paged to respond to an RCR in Hewett, which 359 were also called to. The issue was that they were still at the first incident (and hadn't notified they had finished their first incident 'cos they hadn't) and had to release one of their appliances to the RCR and then call for assistance from other brigades to assist in the first incident. Maybe if they were allowed to use K codes, Adelaide fire would of known they couldn't respond to the RCR and they would of sent another brigade to assist 359. What happens if the first incident was a k99 and then they were asked to attend a RCR with confirmed entrapments around the same time?

And a K code would have fixed that issue how....?

Pip

Didn't say it would fix it, just saying that if CFS used K codes they would be able to let Adelaide fire know when they are K3 or transmit a K44 when a sitrep becomes available so they know when they are available if another incident come up in their area like last night

[tft]

Also the Group Officers should manage what appliances are where.If they get another call, they can call up comms and ask for more appliances. 

[boredmatrix]

again..shouldn't the one communications centre have the "big picture" as to what is going on statewide if they're supposed to be doing all the CRD?

**queue broken record**

[Mic10110]

Completly agree if we had a big enough fund to implement it. Til then, drop the ego, forget any wanna be type behaviour and co-ordinate a response. I'ts not hard to tell AdFire your busy and can't take further calls. It's all there in the MOU's

[Hazmat206]

01:03:42 10-02-11 MFS: FURTHER INFO - CAR HAS SKIDDED ON DIESEL, CRASHED INTO TRUCK WITH PERSONS POSSIBLY TRAPPED IN THE VEHICLE. DRIVER OF TRUCK IS K41. - CFS Light Group Officers Response

From Adel fire to CFS K code?

[Pipster]

I'd be the same message they sent to the MFS appliance attending the same call.....

Pip

[6739264]

We've all seen Adelaide Fire page out K-Codes to CFS appliances before, eg: I believe Bute CFS got paged to a K99 House fire a few months back. It's very different when your use K-Codes all day every day in your job, and you perhaps slip at some hour of the morning. It's far different to a CFS wannabe learning all the K-Codes then screwing up their usage.

And, as Pip said, often a single message hits multiple sources.

[bittenyakka]

And although the CFS guys may have been confused in the paging format it also puts more info onto one page which is nice

[Boonie]

When I was with an EMA brigade, I used K Codes just to annoy people who jump up and down on this forum quoting the SOP,s. The fact is nobody really gives a rat's. Use them or don't use them. Ad fire certainly couldnt care less. It doesn't matter. The only people who care are those listening to their scanners who have nothing to do with the job. Go and mow your lawns people or count your coin collection. It would have been time better spent than arguing about nothing.

[jaff]

When I was with an EMA brigade, I used K Codes just to annoy people who jump up and down on this forum quoting the SOP,s. The fact is nobody really gives a rat's. Use them or don't use them. Ad fire certainly couldnt care less. It doesn't matter. The only people who care are those listening to their scanners who have nothing to do with the job. Go and mow your lawns people or count your coin collection. It would have been time better spent than arguing about nothing.

I agree Bonny,  In fact I agree that much I might start giving arrival messages in Mandarin Chinese!...and when people complain....Ill just tell em "tfuu kingfra isht"...who cares what the SOPs are I , I make my own rules....so there!

[Mic10110]

My guys got confused the other morning over these firetrucking things.

AdFire: Roger your K-1
Appliance: Please repeat
AdFire: Roger your K-1 mobile
Appliance: Yes we are mobile. Whats K-1 mean?
Adfire: Roger your mobile

SOP 7.1 Dated August 2011 says K-Codes are not to be used by CFS resources.....

[Alan (Big Al)]

cfs can use K codes 0,1,4 and 5 now as thats what shows up in cad. when u book, offline, mobile, clear of call and back at station.

And when it is busy and there are many brigades coming up together the use of those could allow quicker radio transmissions ( just depends on how competent the appliance radio operator is)

[Robert-Robert34]

Its not that hard to use the K-codes all you need to do is tell AF when you are mobile and back at station

[Alex]

SOP 7.1 Dated August 2011 says K-Codes are not to be used by CFS resources.....

Cool, looks like they weren't then.

[Zippy]

SOP 7.1 Dated August 2011 says K-Codes are not to be used by CFS resources.....

Cool, looks like they weren't then.

Alex is right, they were only used by Adelaide fire  

However, i fully back the idea of using K-Codes on regional talkgroups now. After hearing all the dribble by surrounding groups and even local brigades, it's a waste of valuable attention that Adelaide Fire could spend elsewhere during a busy period.

CFS needs to get into the mind set, that we need to keep our messages *VERY* brief, unless one of three things happen:

- Incident Escalation. (This in itself should be kept to 2nd Alarm, 3rd Alarm, 4th Alarm, or Specialist resources)
- Adelaide Fire wanting to clarify information from a particular resource calling.
- The resource wanting to gain further information.

The example of Sturt group appliances not talking to Adelaide fire, undermines the actual need for SACAD.

"Adelaide Fire Strathalbyn 34P"
"Send Strathalbyn 34P"
"Strathalbyn 34P K1 incident 81"
"Roger, Strathalbyn 34P K1, Adelaide Fire Out"


"Adelaide Fire, Strathalbyn 34P"
"Send Strathalbyn 34P"
"Strathalbyn 34P, K5"
"Roger out"


Nice and Simple.

Whats even better you say? effing mobile comm terminals.

[Pipster]

Isn't

"Adelaide Fire Strath 34P"
"Send Strath 34P"
"Strath 34P mobile incident 81"
"Roger, Strath 34P, Adelaide Fire Out"

Just as easy?

Pip

[bajdas]

Isn't

"Adelaide Fire Strath 34P"
"Send Strath 34P"
"Strath 34P mobile incident 81"
"Roger, Strath 34P, Adelaide Fire Out"

Just as easy?

Pip

***wish we had a like button ***       KISS principle..

[misterteddy]

Isn't

"Adelaide Fire Strath 34P"
"Send Strath 34P"
"Strath 34P mobile incident 81"
"Roger, Strath 34P, Adelaide Fire Out"

Just as easy?

Pip

in my opinion.....a verbose and time wasting way of constructing a radio message. Identifying yourself everytime u speak, waiting for a response from the intended station....all that old radio operator crap went out with pedal HF radios.

Time with the button pushed is valuable time someone else cant transmit....and both fire services waffle on like its facebook chat. When the scheiße is hitting the whole house...not just the fan, very brief meessages are needed to save cluttering up the TG.

These days with modern filtered digital coms (even with SAGRN) the old methods of pre-warning your intended station can be dispensed withn - unless you want to address  something out of the ordinary. We always talk to Adelaide Fire when we go mobile.....so why say it?....it just takes up air time. Yes yes...they might be busy...but they can ask for it again if they miss it.

My suggestion for the above is;

Strath 34P mobile incident 81, Strath 34P
Adelaide Fire Roger

(repeating ur c/s in case like half the CFS you forget to wait for tone before u talk). No need for out , over, under or the old favourite "over and out good buddy" - just a waste of frequency time

[DaveP]

+1 for Simple language. It actually makes more sense (so it won't happen) for the MFS to cease using K codes for voice communications and stick to plain English words like "mobile" "arrived" "upgrade to" "stop" etc. If you want to send codes then get data terminals and push the buttons. If they don't work/won't be provided then plain English makes for less confusion and decoding.


Dave P.

[vsteve01]

plain language.   Most radio ops don't do the role day in and out.  It's hard enough for some to use the right pro words,  can't imagine what would happen trying to remember k codes.