Should the fire reporter stay on site ?

[bajdas]

Serious question.....should the person reporting a fire stay in the area or leave to give room for CFS/MFS to operate in ?

Last night I was driving near Noarlunga Shopping Centre when my wife observed a red glow towards the expressway bush area. We turned the car around & drove to the nearest street access to check.

From that location we could see the flames at the top of small gum trees in the distance and thought it was in the bush area on the side of the Southern Expressway. Little wind around but other people were noticing the smoke.

My wife called 112 and the subsequent page was accurate to where we were:

22:15:20 02-01-10 MFS: *CFSRES INC081 02/01/10 22:13,RESPOND GRASS FIRE,GREY BOX AV,NOARLUNGA CENTRE MAP 186 C 11 TG182,,SAIR55 MRPH00 OHH421 CFS Morphett Vale Response

Please note that a Commercial Fire and earlier Rubbish fire pages had possibly taken the Christies Beach trucks so thus the response trucks allocated.

I was unsure which side of the expressway the fire was on, but I though it was on the side we observed from.

We warned another business with cars nearby of the fire and then went to the major road intersection & waited.

This is a new building area behind Bunnings warehouse and near Noarlunga Hospital. Thus not on google maps.

So we telephoned the street name to try & give a more accurate location.

22:20:24 02-01-10 MFS: *CFSRES INC081 02/01/10 22:18,RESPOND GRASS FIRE,GREY BOX AV,NOARLUNGA CENTRE MAP 186 C 11 TG182,,SAIR55 CDN439 MFS Christie Downs 439

When the three trucks arrived (MV14, MV24?, MFS) we left the area.

By then the flames had died down (human planted bush area with bare earth in between near bike/walking track). So I suspect the fire had hit a bare earth area. But against the expressway lights, I could see the smoke column.

This morning I noticed the following page:

08:54:01 03-01-10 MFS: *CFSRES INC022 03/01/10 08:53,RESPOND GRASS FIRE,BEACH RD,NOARLUNGA CENTRE MAP 185 M 10 TG182,GRASS FIRE BEHIND BUNNINGS. CALLER WAS,ON THE BIKE OR WALKING TRACK LOOKING ACR,OSS THE EXPRESSWAY.,SAIR55 CDN431 MFS Christie Downs 431

We left the area after the fire trucks had arrived because we hate 'rubber necker observers' getting in the way of emergency operations. We also assumed that the fireys could see the smoke from the street or the business people could provide any additional information required.

We are not trained in full fire operations (completed overview courses) so this is different to other emergencies (first aid, rescue, search, etc) where we stay and assist because we are trained.

* Did we do the wrong thing by leaving when the trucks arrived ?
* Should a person observing the first fire & reported it, be available when crews arrive to provide further information if required ?
* Does the incident OIC seek out the observers for additional information ?

Serious question in case this occurs again in the future.

[6739264]

Please stay on scene!

Honestly, especially if the incident is hard to locate, its very helpful to have the caller/s on scene to direct crews to the job. Depending on the job, the IC/Police may well seek further info from the callers, especially if the fire appears to be of a suspicious nature.

Its odd that you called Adelaide Fire back to provide further information and they merely turned out another appliance to the same location as given. Although not knowing the area, this may just be a local anomaly.

Good job all around!

[bajdas]

Extra page today in the general area:

12:53:26 03-01-10 MFS: *CFSRES INC035 03/01/10 12:52,RESPOND GRASS FIRE,LEXCEN DR,NOARLUNGA DOWNS MAP 186 C 12 TG182,NEAR POZNAN WALKWAY,SAIR55 CDN431 MFS Christie Downs

I hope this is a different incident....

[bajdas]

Please stay on scene!

Honestly, especially if the incident is hard to locate, its very helpful to have the caller/s on scene to direct crews to the job. Depending on the job, the IC/Police may well seek further info from the callers, especially if the fire appears to be of a suspicious nature.

OK, part of my issue is that the call taker does not seem to take the caller details down. Yes they have caller id & tape recordings, but they do not ask for a name.

In SES call taking, the caller details are paged so the incident OIC can gather more details if required. Thus, I guessed that we could not provide any further useful information at the incident, so we left to keep the incident area as clear as possible.

How does the incident OIC identify the caller from the observers ?

[Alex]

Andrew, we get CLI, you dont in SES SCC. So i guess we have a call back number in comcen if necesary.

And i dont mean to sound as if fire/rescue related jobs are more important, but i think it would just be time wasting getting and adding the details into a response message, when if necessary crews can contact comcen and find out the number for the caller and location if a landline at a later time.

[Zippy]

 08:01:44 04-01-10 MFS: *CFSRES INC026 04/01/10 08:00,RESPOND GRASS FIRE,GREY BOX AV,NOARLUNGA CENTRE MAP 186 C 11 TG182,SMALL SPOTS OF SMOULDERING / SMOKING GRA,SS. AT END OF ROAD, ON THE RIGHT.,SAIR55 CDN431 MFS Christie Downs 431


Yeah. i think we can safely say, the difference between MFS and CFS responses to grassland fire is that, we send 100 firefighters to a 3 hectare fire to actually mop it up properly...

[bajdas]

Andrew, we get CLI, you dont in SES SCC. So i guess we have a call back number in comcen if necesary.

And i dont mean to sound as if fire/rescue related jobs are more important, but i think it would just be time wasting getting and adding the details into a response message, when if necessary crews can contact comcen and find out the number for the caller and location if a landline at a later time.

Fully agree....not enough paging message space.  CLI is also in SES SCC because we are on the same PABX.

No critism given or taken...just learning how different services do dispatch & initial incident control.

[Darius]

Andrew, we get CLI, you dont in SES SCC. So i guess we have a call back number in comcen if necesary.

something I've been meaning to enquire about (officially I mean) but not got round to is: I reckon probably more than half of recent jobs where we have gone back to Adelaide Fire seeking caller details (CLI etc) the reply has come back with something like "no caller id/info is available".  Yet as you know callers to 000/112 cannot block their caller ID, so what's going on?  is there some failure within telstra/MFS?

[Darius]

I agree with stay on scene, when I've called things in (as a member of the public) I stay until the first truck arrives.  Only exception was a tree down on a roadway, myself and another passerby dragged it mostly off the road then called SES (well Adelaide Fire answered) and left.  Next day I went past and it was still there and going by the paging site the SES didn't attend or default.  Later that day it was removed by a local resident keen for firewood.

[bajdas]

............Yeah. i think we can safely say, the difference between MFS and CFS responses to grassland fire is that, we send 100 firefighters to a 3 hectare fire to actually mop it up properly...

Not sure where the "...100 firefighters..." is coming from. Just stiring for a response again...not helpful  

I thought the response was great given limited access through the gates in the expressway fringe would restrict large truck access (thus MV14), new flats & commercial buildings on edge of reserve (thus MFS) and unknown water supply in new development area as well as potential long hose run if they could not access the area via the gate (hence MV24?).

[bajdas]

I went back to the area on Sunday afternoon during the daylight. How things look different in the daylight.

The street is a dead-end where the new flats are being built. The expressway verge is a bush regeneration area so no access. To get a vehicle in would have been a long drive to a access gate then back to the site in the dark.

The low bushes & small trees in the regeneration area are close together, but limited leaf litter on the ground.

The fire was actually over a low hill, so the actual base of the fire could not be seen from the road.

No blue markers on the roadway indicating hydrants. But I suspect they exist because the road is asphalt.

It was interesting because a strong smell of burnt bush was in the air. Maybe this is what the other paging is from.

Thanks for your comments, I will stay if this happens again.

[Zippy]

No not stiring a response, presenting the fact. Overkill does seem to increase our success rate at preventing recalls.

Reading adelaide now quite a bit lately, where a lot of people comment "get more mfs fire stations in the hills"...

[Darren]

CLI is only available on 000 calls, not every fire call comes through 000.......

[mattb]

Andrew, I was driving the first arriving appliance and in this case not speaking to the 'caller' was not an issue, we could smell the smoke long before we arrived and spotted the glow on top of the hill as soon as we turned into the street. However in other cases it is useful for us to be able to speak to the caller, especially when we arrive and there is 'nothing showing'.

22:20:24 02-01-10 MFS: *CFSRES INC081 02/01/10 22:18,RESPOND GRASS FIRE,GREY BOX AV,NOARLUNGA CENTRE MAP 186 C 11 TG182,,SAIR55 CDN439 MFS Christie Downs 439

For info 439 was turned out because 421 was still a long way away, and 439 were not needed at the first job. Really there was not a lot they could do as it was only accessible by our 14 and they had it under control in about 5 mins with about 20 mins of mopping up.

The subsequent calls back yesterday and this morning were due to smoldering bark chips still going under the dirt. When we were there this morning we put a decent blanket of CAFS foam over the whole area to try and keep it from causing any more issues.

Thanks for keeping us on our toes, next time come over and say G'day.

[Alex]

Andrew, we get CLI, you dont in SES SCC. So i guess we have a call back number in comcen if necesary.

something I've been meaning to enquire about (officially I mean) but not got round to is: I reckon probably more than half of recent jobs where we have gone back to Adelaide Fire seeking caller details (CLI etc) the reply has come back with something like "no caller id/info is available".  Yet as you know callers to 000/112 cannot block their caller ID, so what's going on?  is there some failure within telstra/MFS?

No problems with out CLI at this end. As Darren said though, no CLI unless its 000/112. If a call is through SAAS/SAPOL or any other means caller details cannot be garaunteed.

[whitecloud]

If you call any emergency service, ESPECIALLY if you are on a mobile, please stay where you are!!! It makes it much easier for you to be found and for those in communications, if callbacks are required, you're able to give useful information, updates and in some cases render some actual help.

Don't be that crap heel that rings and says "I'm somewhere between Renmark and Swan Reach, I dont know what road I'm on, but i drove past a bad vehicle accident 15 minutes ago." Not cool for SO many reasons. We dont always rely on CLI, Telstra can be quite 'special ' / out of date. Further, CLI will provide information on billing addresses for Mobiles, not a GPS co ordinate of where you are.

So, please, please stay on scene.

[Pipster]

And sometimes, people have to drive several minutes past an incident, before they get mobile phone reception......

If they return to the scene, you have lost all contact with them.

Happens constantly in the Adelaide Hills.....

Pip

[whitecloud]

Which is where i hailed from originally, and I do understand this problem, however it's not generally much of a country problem as people have the sense to at least keep someone in touch in some way. Its surprisingly more of a "just outside of the main City area" issue.

People from the hills generally have enough sense to tell you at least if someone is trapped

Stay on scene, or as pip has raised, close as you can manage with some reception...

[bajdas]

For your information, we stayed on scene at the closest major street intersection to indicate to the arriving trucks which direction the fire was in. The trucks would have seen my flashing high-beem and hazard lights on when they went past.

I have been the call taker many times where locations are vague, the incident details are vague and the person is driving somewhere else and not willing to wait. (eg tree across roads, reporting person could assist in protecting the scene until vehicles arrive).

I just hate 'rubber neckers' clogging the roads or access to the emergency scene. Just to see what the emergency services people do after they arrive.

Anyway, thanks for feedback and it all turned out OK in the end.