over-issuing public warnings

[Darius]

I think the CFS seem to be rather over-doing it with the public warning messages lately.  Pretty soon we'll hit the 'cry wolf' level and then we'll need another more extreme sounding name for it to try to get people's attention again.

eg. today they (Region 1 in this case) issued a "watch and act" message for Wistow "ignition development" at 14:39 when actually it was an hour earlier that the fire was first reported, and in fact at 14:39 was well after the fire had been declared contained.  They then issued another WAM of "reduced threat" at 15:15.

[Zippy]

CFS SCC, most likely the air desk, should be the ones with the right to act on the first 15mins Sitreps to determine whether an Ignition Development needs to be sent out.  That would be the solution to create trust in these messages.

[Pipster]

And, by the nature of warnings, they are very sterile, and don't really tell you much about what is actually happening.

Listening to the warnings over the Pine Point fire a few weeks ago, (mixed up with other warnings for other fires) I just ended up switching off...until a person rang, who said he was in the CFS.

I don't know if he was with the IMT (it sort of sounded like he might have been), or whether he had official sanction to speak publically to the media, but he came across reasonably well - and gave far more information about what was happening with the fire in a more listener friendly way.

The sort of stuff he spoke of was along the lines of roughly how many trucks were on the fire ground, what strike teams were coming, generally what was burning (eg grain crop),what the fire behaviour was like (eg flame height) and what conditions the firefighters were facing.

In the few minutes the person spoke, he gave far more general info than we had got in the previous few hours via official media releases - and gave a much better picture of what was actually happening.

I hope that this type of information release can be utilised more often!

Pip

[Bagyassfirey]

And, by the nature of warnings, they are very sterile, and don't really tell you much about what is actually happening.

Listening to the warnings over the Pine Point fire a few weeks ago, (mixed up with other warnings for other fires) I just ended up switching off...until a person rang, who said he was in the CFS.

I don't know if he was with the IMT (it sort of sounded like he might have been), or whether he had official sanction to speak publically to the media, but he came across reasonably well - and gave far more information about what was happening with the fire in a more listener friendly way.

The sort of stuff he spoke of was along the lines of roughly how many trucks were on the fire ground, what strike teams were coming, generally what was burning (eg grain crop),what the fire behaviour was like (eg flame height) and what conditions the firefighters were facing.

In the few minutes the person spoke, he gave far more general info than we had got in the previous few hours via official media releases - and gave a much better picture of what was actually happening.

I hope that this type of information release can be utilised more often!

Pip

but is that the info that the random joe blow of the everyday public wants to hear? like he prob doesn understand appliance numbers n strike teams and really only wants to know where it is where it is going and what it mite impact on...but i agree all that info is really helpful for us CFS vollies!

[Pipster]

That type of info seems to be the stuff the the ABC (the official CFS broadcaster!) is encouraging people to ring in with.  Problem then is you have the potential for members of the public to call in, and provide details about what is (supposedly) happening.....and the potential for the info to be completely inaccurate.

At least if the information was provided by an official source, you could avoid having the members of the public, with no idea, ringing in with wildly inaccurate info!!

Pip

[Zippy]

idea >  Operational Support Members being local, trained, volunteer, media liason officers???

[jaff]

idea >  Operational Support Members being local, trained, volunteer, media liason officers???

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  OOOOOOO  OOOO  OO O!

Great idea, I think Captain Mainwairing is retired now, maybe he would be free!

[Darren]

Nah Sgt Wilson "If you would be so kind as to take a few minutes of your time to peruse the information"

 

[CFS_Firey]

I think the CFS seem to be rather over-doing it with the public warning messages lately.  Pretty soon we'll hit the 'cry wolf' level and then we'll need another more extreme sounding name for it to try to get people's attention again.

eg. today they (Region 1 in this case) issued a "watch and act" message for Wistow "ignition development" at 14:39 when actually it was an hour earlier that the fire was first reported, and in fact at 14:39 was well after the fire had been declared contained.  They then issued another WAM of "reduced threat" at 15:15.

I've noticed this too.  It's also possible that as well as the crying wolf syndrome, people might come to expect that they'll get a warning for any and every fire, and if they haven't heard a warning, then nothing is wrong.

I do have to note though that most warnings are actually 'watch and act' messages, and they haven't been putting out that many BWMs that seem inappropriate.

The next level after 'catastrophic' would be 'apocalyptic' wouldn't it?

[Darius]

And, by the nature of warnings, they are very sterile, and don't really tell you much about what is actually happening.

yes absolutely, but that's another different problem, being quality of information, and sometimes it's hard to get that info.

But the problem I'm talking about is I guess: (1) over using the warnings and thereby diminishing their value/effectiveness, and (2) timeliness of issue. 

I'm sure the airdesk was monitoring the incident and most likely the regional office was too (or should have been if they weren't).  I'd say the 15 minute mark (in this particular case, and probably much the same for around the Mt Lofty PRZ area) would have been a good time to make the decision whether to issue an 'ignition development' warning or not.  I don't think it was needed in this case but even if region/airdesk/SCC thought it was then that is the time to issue it.  45 minutes further after that (and after the IC had declared it contained) just looks like the CFS trying to say to the public and the pollies "hey look we are keeping the community informed".

At the Air Ops field day last weekend we were told that a new thing this season will be the first arriving aircraft (usually bomber) will give an arrival message/sitrep both to the airdesk and to the ground crews.  So if the aircraft are dispatched then I agree with Zippy the airdesk should have the authority to issue the 'ignition development' warning upon that first sitrep.  If aircraft aren't there then either the airdesk or regional office should do it based on the first sitrep.

[Darius]

I do have to note though that most warnings are actually 'watch and act' messages, and they haven't been putting out that many BWMs that seem inappropriate.

I was going to reply and say isn't BWM the old terminology but then I thought I'd better look up exactly what the different warning messages are.  See here:
http://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/site/community_information/watch_act_and_emergency_warnings.jsp

It appears there are 3 basic types of messages:
1) advice
2) watch and act
3) emergency warning

So you are correct (except it's called Bushfire Emergency Warning Message, so BEWM I guess, not BWM) and this is the one that gets the SEWS audio warning signal played on the radio.

I guess that means the other 2 are 'lesser' general information type things.  I wonder though how well the general public understand the nuances and slightly different interpretation of these (I didn't).

I don't think any of that changes my comments about over-issuing or timeliness of issuing any of them though.

The next level after 'catastrophic' would be 'apocalyptic' wouldn't it?

true but that would pretty much leave the CFS/govt nowhere else to go if something even more 'apocalyptic' came along

[CFS_Firey]

true but that would pretty much leave the CFS/govt nowhere else to go if something even more 'apocalyptic' came along

Apocalyptic 2.0? 

[Alex]

I dont think there is an issue with the 'almost overuse' of WAMs. At the end of the day WAMs have been created to advise the public that there is a fire in the area and they should WATCH in case it escalates. Just getting the public aware of any fire in the area may make them avoid travelling through, or at least get bushfire survival plans implimented... both good things.

Besides, if people wanted to see these messages getting used properly and in a timely manner, then perhaps all of us [as firies on the ground] need to make a more conscientious effort to get timely sitreps through the chain of command, not only to our GCCs but to the RCoords.

[crashndash]

*deleted after a second thought*

[Zippy]

COSO 15 explains what our standing orders are for timely sitreps all the way up the chain.

[Skillsy]

Apocalyptic 2.0?

surely some mistake.... isn't it iPoc2.0?


Skillsy

[Alex]

I dont think there is an issue with the 'almost overuse' of WAMs. At the end of the day WAMs have been created to advise the public that there is a fire in the area and they should WATCH in case it escalates. Just getting the public aware of any fire in the area may make them avoid travelling through, or at least get bushfire survival plans implemented... both good things.

Besides, if people wanted to see these messages getting used properly and in a timely manner, then perhaps all of us [as firies on the ground] need to make a more conscientious effort to get timely sitreps through the chain of command, not only to our GCCs but to the RCoords.

As an afterthought... To add to this, the public are already completely desensitized to every public information message the fire service issues. So it probably makes very Little difference.

[Numpty]

The best warning I've got was a low flying fixed waterbomber!. In addition a second fixed wing bomber had a siren fitted which I thought was very effective. The best info was off the online scanner, the official warning messages were way out with the actual events.