New Rescue van for CFS

[firefighter21]

people this vechile is a PROTOTYPE

[6739264]

Well why don't we ask the powers to be, send a letter to the powers mate.

Chain of Command rules supreme in SACFS, you know that! Plus you get in strife for sending logical, well though out letter that is backed by solid evidence.

... Meanwhile, somewhere near Euan Fergo's office...

"Quick! Someone call the Police!"
"Whats happened?!"
"There's a letter here filled with a Hazardous Substance that we don't know how to deal with!"
"What is is?!"
"...it... it... it smells like, LOGIC"
"AIE!!"

"ADELAIDE FIRE? Send us.... EVERYBODY"

Edit: I think I caught something off firefighter21...

[6739264]

people this vechile is a PROTOTYPE its to give an idea of what these rcr vans may look like it dosent mean they will be based on this chasis, and as for cfs not having a full rcr stowage thats not true as on my brigades rescue truck we have stabilization air bags, we have two rams, we have a spreaders and we have cutters, we have a full set of chock blocks anyway usualy any rcr entrapment we go to are usauly out of town and usualy means a dual or triple response of rcr equipment we will have ses, mfs and us at the incident and why give the role of rcr to the ses the cfs do it good it just depends on what rcr brigades carry and their area. these rcr vans will not mean they will replace your main rcr response vechile either 24P or 34P as this van will be used as a regional or group type thing as a backup vechile incase and it will also go to incidents with the full rcr set in the 34P or 24P. its a prototype and nothing more the van was donated to the cfs so they converted it into a prototpye rcr van just so rcr brigades get the general idea and they are being evaluated by each brigade so this will result in changes

STEP A:

Go read the RCR Resource Directory. Make a note of interesting information. Things like "Pulling tips for spreaders and chains/straps"

STEP B:

Read the current stowage list for RCR, compare this to the information you noted in STEP A

STEP C:

Go look at the current kit that CFS is issuing as "RCR Stowage" and compare this to the information you noted in STEPS A & B.

If you can't see the glaring discrepancies, then you'd better get thee to an optometrist pronto!

Congratulations for being a very lucky area in the state where you get smashed with duplication of resources. Think about things for just one second... there are areas in state that have no RCR backup for miles, and when they do, its another CFS Brigade (CRAZY?! - I know!)


So you have "Stabilization Airbags", Two rams, Spreaders, Cutters and a full set of "Chock Blocks"...

The airbags... High or Low pressure? What capacity? Do you carry enough air cylinders to use them? Carry enough Crib blocks to build a box crib or two, plus multiple primary and secondary towers?

Two rams... What length? What capacity? Single Stage? Telescoping? Can they actually push the whole distance from the B pillar to the A Pillar and effectively displace the dash? Do they need a "Ram Support"? Do you have one for each ram?

The spreaders... What is their capacity? Do you have pulling chains/straps? Do you have removable tips?

"Chock Blocks"... Do you mean Step Blocks? You have a full set? Is this 4? Do you mean assorted Blocks/Wedges? How many? The CFS "Standard" of 8 crib blocks? Good luck getting any height out of a box crib for your airbags...

See where the deficiencies can lie?


I applaud Brigades that have gone out and furnished their RCR kit with extras that they and their community feel they need. Its just very sad that CFS seem to be shafting the entire discipline of Motor Vehicle Extrication.

[Bagyassfirey]

well not necessarily busy road crash brigades like the Adelaide hills and my brigade Stirling north will have this as a second lot of rcr gear as our gear on the 34P will not be going anywhere. region 4 haven't shown much interest in a rcr one they said its more suited for the Adelaide hills area but are interested in the one for hazmat as there are only about 5 or so hazmat brigades in region 4 which are Clare, Stirling north,Jamestown, woomera and coober pedy and the hazmat van would be more useful than a rcr we see because we feel the need for one for hazmat rather than rcr as we have numerous rcr resources we can rely on unless they cant pull a crew in which is the reason for rapid response rcr just in case they need a rcr brigade defaults and its about 100km from the brigade that gets paged for that brigade.

Reckon last time i looked Clare was in Region2?

Also if your getting 3 RCR equipped resources responded to all you RCR incidents WOW think your selves lucky and really couldnt ask for much more ey?

For argument sake if this van did become a real thing wouldnt it replace one of your vehicles not be an addition?

I wouldnt know a thing about RCR gear and am finidng this a really interesting post 

[firefighter21]

soz dont know

[firefighter21]

 here is the list of stowage

1 multi stage ram
1 spreader
1 cutter
hard protection and soft procetion this is situated behind the cage right behind the seats from what i was told
a set of stabfast stablisation equipment
1 pump
a primary entry kit
 set of 35m cables
the appliance seats seats 4 people in the back and 3 people in the front

now this is a list of equipment the van did not have but was agreed on that its a must have on a rcr kit vechile

traffic cones this van had none so that means if the van got there first theres no cones to create a safe zone around the incident

no E flare warning devices so at night the only indication would be the hazard lights on the vechiles

no fire extinguishers

no hooligan tool

[firefighter21]

yea i made a mistake lol clare is in region 2

[Darren]

I can see great value for a hazmat crew transport vehicle, but this is the wrong sort of van for HAZMAT, if they are struggling to fit the less than basic RCR kit, how do they plan to fit a full hazmat kit with overdrums ?

Also yes, the gear CFS brigades had under council funding for RCR is no where near as good as it used to be. Whilst everyone has newish gear, its nowhere near what is considered the old heavy rescue. Especially for those on major highways, it would be considered laughable in most any other state or country !

[6739264]

Aww its cute... I didn't think that there was anyone out there that still took the CFS's word as Gospel!

Trust me, if you get a Rescue Van, CFS will take you comms van, ATLEAST one Fire Appliance and probably your dog and baby sister. Its just the way it is.

mate im not rcr trained as of yet i only know the basics of what ive seen on the appliance but rams we multi stage rams yes and dnt knw about supports

Sorry champ, I'll go easy.  

and from what i seen on the prototype rcr van here is the list of stowage

1 multi stage ram
1 spreader
1 cutter
hard protection and soft procetion this is situated behind the cage right behind the seats from what i was told
a set of stabfast stablisation equipment
1 pump
a primary entry kit
 set of 35m cables
the appliance seats seats 4 people in the back and 3 people in the front

now this is a list of equipment the van did not have but was agreed on that its a must have on a rcr kit vechile
traffic cones this van had none so that means if the van got there first theres no cones to create a safe zone around the incident
no E flare warning devices so at night the only indication would be the hazard lights on the vechiles
no fire extinguishers
no hooligan tool

here is a list of things we disliked and pointed out
the pump and cables are fixed resource it is mounted to setup so they cant be taken of which means the van will be closer to the incident than the truck would be
the back door is a problem for tall people
the back doors decal setup resembles a ambulance so this may confuse the occupants

So basically its the standard "CFS Heavy" Kit. Oh the laughs keep coming...

Protip: If you have this kit, don't even both with a Dash Roll, go straight for Dash lift with the spreaders or roll the dash with chains (oh wait, you can't do that either)

FOUR in the back and THREE in the front... SEVEN? What the? Imagine all the stowage you could fit with only two or three at most!

No fire extinguisher? Good idea CFS.

Wow, no traffic cones... good old CFS, they're a thinking lot.

No halligan? Good, saves weight, what the hey are you using this for at an RCR? Someone driving a truck carrying building doors you need to force?

Uh, the Rescue should ALWAYS be closer to the job than the Fire Appliance, although the pump/reels should be removable.

Back door decals confusing... confusing who? The Vollos? If they confuse the volunteers, holy crap... I don't know what to say. If you guys mean the occupants trapped, then surely as soon as you ask "Fire Service Rescue, can you hear me?" they'll work it out.

Now I swear I had something better to do at midnight... Just...forgot what it...was...

[6739264]

I can see great value for a hazmat crew transport vehicle, but this is the wrong sort of van for HAZMAT, if they are struggling to fit the less than basic RCR kit, how do they plan to fit a full hazmat kit with overdrums ?

Also yes, the gear CFS brigades had under council funding for RCR is no where near as good as it used to be. Whilst everyone has newish gear, its nowhere near what is considered the old heavy rescue. Especially for those on major highways, it would be considered laughable in most any other state or country !

The idea of Vans to support a response, either Hazmat or Rescue is a very sound idea, and perhaps a good, low cost solution to the Stand Alone trucks for both disciplines, but yet again the CFS manage to turn the implementation into a giant fuckup.

Darren, I reckon you could fit two overdrums, filled with Hazmat dudes, in the back plus two more dudes in the front... no worries!

[Darren]

Well soon there won't be anyone left to man any of these vehicles, so I guess down sizing has its merits. No one left, no seats needed. Or none of us will be trained to use it, thank Mr Rann.

[disOrderly]

Does anyone have any pictures of this van?

[crashndash]

Sorry champ, I'll go easy.  

going soft Numbers....soft I tells ya 

[CFS_Firey]

Does anyone have any pictures of this van?

CFS Van:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50838686@N08/?saved=1

SES Van:
http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php?topic=2486.0

[Bagyassfirey]

Reckon last time i looked Clare was in Region2?

Also if your getting 3 RCR equipped resources responded to all you RCR incidents WOW think your selves lucky and really couldnt ask for much more ey?

For argument sake if this van did become a real thing wouldnt it replace one of your vehicles not be an addition?

I wouldnt know a thing about RCR gear and am finidng this a really interesting post  smiley

yea i made a mistake lol clare is in region 2 and we dont always have 3 rcr resources for each incident usualy if its anything out of town then automatically cfs, mfs and maybe ses  responds to it but they will usualy do lighting and traffic control for us unless we need them to help out with an extraction but ten times out of ten mfs and cfs will be there but if its major ses will rock up and if we do for example get one of those vans we wont lose any of our 2 fire appliances as we need our 34P and our 24P so it will just be another addition to our already huge station of 2 fire pumps, 1 tanker, 3 support vehicles a logistics, a air operations truck and a comms vechile if i say we lose any vehicles it would be the comms as that rarely gets used but who knws we are more likely to get the one for hazmat than rcr from what i hear cause more there is more interest in one for hazmat then for rcr

Got ya head in the sand if ya think going to get a rescue appliance and not lose anything!

[firefighter21]

 

[BundyBear]

Still banging on about rescue vans - Firefighters drive trucks!

Wanna drive a van start sellling pies an pasties or trade your yellows for orange!

[Andrew K]

 "or trade your yellows for orange!"

hope that doesn't mean what i think it does, it would be nice if people stopped taking shots at other services we do all volunteer for the same reason

[BundyBear]

"or trade your yellows for orange!"

hope that doesn't mean what i think it does, it would be nice if people stopped taking shots at other services we do all volunteer for the same reason

No sledge intended Andrew K just making the point once agian a certain department of the CFS is looking for cheap impractical solutions that have been tried many moons ago in the CFS.

A mixture of vans and trucks probably works for the SES due to the nature of your response but not for a fire service. Pump/Rescues are the only way to go due to the areas CFS respond into and the lack of numbers during the day especially for many brigades.

There are a number of reasons why this idea of vans for a fire service that is manned by volunteers has operational and safety concerns.

Have got a lot of time for you guys and girls in orange, all is cool!

[Andrew K]

really when you look at it the ses does't have that many vans all of our metro rescues are trucks with 4wds for light support - we've only got that trial transit floating around and thats a cab chassie not a van as such,

when you look at it for rcr for brigades and units there is a place for them as they are cheaper - with everyone complaining about money thats a large point does a high risk low call brigade really need a truck worth several hundred thousand or a 60,000 van. Akso the vans don't require a truck license to drive which for several ses units is a big advantage not sure about how cfs stands for drivers especially during day time.

so long as it can carry the kit required safely and i would have thought that a custom box on the back might have made more sense than what they have in the pics if you can get 10 vans compared to 4 trucks, you are going to increase the coverage of the equipment for responses.

Also as a pump will probably respond as well it gives you a second fend off vehicle for protection of the scene.

[crashndash]

... does a high risk low call brigade really need a truck worth several hundred thousand or a 60,000 van.

Also as a pump will probably respond as well...

errr.....Answer Your Own Question 101 maybe?

[Darren]

You just kind of killed your self in your own statement.

Your going to need just as many fire trucks, the van would have to be additional, so not really saving anything but needing truck drivers. Looking at the levels of equipment on this van, I would rather take a truck.

[Andrew K]

darren

what i'm trying to get at is if at the moment yes they will need a truck to respond which it is already going to but instead of giving them a new truck worth several hunderd thousand just to cart their rcr gear this will do the same job for a lot less cost and doesn't need truck drivers, i'm not saying take away the trucks or don't take them to jobs, these vans could be a useful supplement to the job if they are designed right which personally i don't think this one is but the idea behind it isn't so bad

[Darren]

But you still haven't saved any money, those trucks still need to be replaced, and in the end you all you are saving is a few thousand as they might say get a standard 34 instead of a 34P. But most brigades that have RCR need the 34P anyway for the urban risks they have. Its only really good for say the like s of Ceduna who have to travel a LOOOOONG way for RCR, and taking the pump out of area isn't a good idea. But without fire coverage at all on this vehicles then your still going to have to take a fire appliance.

For Hazmat its a good idea, but need a bigger van than this I think.

[Alan (Big Al)]

Doesnt help when cfs hands out new 34P's to non specialst quiet brigades either, when there are busyish brigades out there with rcr who could put them to better use.