Recruitment being prevented by BFF1 length

[bittenyakka]

There has been alot of discussion recently saying the length of BFF1 is preventing members from joining.
Do you think this is true if so why or why not?
And does anyone expect our numbers to noticeably increase if we altered BFF1 to a different format?

[Zippy]

the present format:   1 night session,  followed by 2 day sessions.  (with some variables).

I see as it as the "smallest" it can possibly ever be, to give a firefighter the bare basics.

Other formats may cause it to drag out too long, and skills will be learnt and forgotten quickly...

And with the advent of BFF1's being delivered at the STC in recent times....the food's filtered awesome, not only that, the environment gets the recruit somewhat enthused.

A recruit putting aside a weekend also shows some dedication to the brigade & cfs in general,  e.g. 3 day deployments are done in similar fashion to doing a training course instead of having a typical weekend.

And ey, who knows the recruit might come out a better person in the end and hence see the other aspects of life in another light.

We all know there are other factors that cause new members to drift early...

[jaff]

We all know there are other factors that cause new members to drift early...

Do we? ..........as a service do we do exit polls?

We expend a lot of energy and resources behind getting people to join, but fark all on retention!
So when people do resign lets give them a formal exit poll and examine the reasons behind volunteer drift!

Oh yeah the 3day BFF1 in my opinion is not such a big impost and hopefully wouldnt in its current guise be to confronting to any newbies.

[SA Firey]

We all know there are other factors that cause new members to drift early...

Do we? ..........as a service do we do exit polls?

We expend a lot of energy and resources behind getting people to join, but fark all on retention!
So when people do resign lets give them a formal exit poll and examine the reasons behind volunteer drift!

Oh yeah the 3day BFF1 in my opinion is not such a big impost and hopefully wouldnt in its current guise be to confronting to any newbies.

Yes there are exit polls but why would you waste your time, things dont change that quickly

[rescue5271]

I dont have a problem with the time frame for BFF1 I just think its the older members who are saying it takes too long mind you some of those older members have not done a course in years and wont attend training...Its great to see that STC has on offer the course to new brigade members and have to agree once you see what is going on there you know that you want to do it also once you have done BFF1.

So how many nights/days are groups doing to get a BFF1 course done in?

[chinabone]

its a friday arvo i thinnk like 3 hours then a satday sunday thing i think theres nothing wrong with it

[wombat34]

We have just clicked over 817 BFF1's individual completions for the financial year so there is more a problem as mentioned before about retention than the length of the BFF1. Well in my opinion anyway.....

[Zippy]

Dang 817!...thats roughly 1 in 8 or 9 firefighters of CFS.

[CFS_Firey]

We have just clicked over 817 BFF1's individual completions for the financial year so there is more a problem as mentioned before about retention than the length of the BFF1. Well in my opinion anyway.....

Wow.

I'd be more inclined to think the problem with BFF1 would be the content rather than the length.  There's nothing in there that I'd leave out, but from a recruit's point of view, it's a lot of information to learn, and quite possibly enough to scare you off...

[firegun]

I agree with Bill,
The course length is about right, perhaps the content could be "jigged" a bit.
There has been a push by some people however to "split the course" in 2.
My memory of the proposal is
First day would be enough to get the new members "on the truck" and attending "rural" incidents.
They would have to then complete the remainder of BFF1 in the next 6 months.

There has been lots of variations to this as well "floated" around eg people who only want to "fight" rural fires only need to do the 1 day etc.

My personal view is we have a course set up as the minimun for new people, perhaps it needs some work on the content but the length is fine.

By introducing some of the variations of the minimum course as suggested would only cause chaos not only for the training section/ record keepers but can you imagine at a rural incident if you had to go into asset protection and 1/2 of your appliances couldn't legally do it because they had members on the units who had only done the 1 day and something happened??

We have a system in place that seems to work fairly well, refine it a bit but lets use and promote it as the course to do, because I, like Bill, think its the older members who haven't done a course for years who don't actively support such a course.

[Big Yellow Gongbeater]

I tend to agree with you all, that the intent and timeframes are fine, and produce a firefighter who can attend all incident types.  The push for splitting the course and making "rural" firefighters and "urban/rural" firefighters is coming from the rural brigades who attend very few incidents and incident types, and this push is gaining ground because we have a Chief who is trying to regress us back into being a "bushfire" fighting service, through his own lack of knowledge and experience in the urban realm (No matter how nice a bloke he is!). And unfortunately when the CO's advisory group (or what ever its called) is predominantly made up of old men who haven't ridden a fire truck in years and are still stuck in 1983! and "pure" rural brigades out number Peri urban brigades (Including brigades in major rural centres who do 90 odd % of the organisations call outs) you are not going to see this push for decreased training/standards/equipment etc.  fall by the wayside.

[rescue5271]

There is to be a upskill sometime this year for instructors and i would hope that this will be the start of the roll out of the new BFF1 that will see it cut down in time.We would all have to agree that its well over due as some of what we where teaching was old and out of date but also some groups where finding it hard to run a course in the time frame or they where making the course longer than what was required.

Lets all hope that the new BFF1 is shorter and that we are able to get members onto appliances alot sooner,having said that we also need to be able to retain these members so I hope we start seeing more rural brigades do training.....

[CFS_Firey]

Lets all hope that the new BFF1 is shorter and that we are able to get members onto appliances alot sooner,...

Didn't everyone in this thread just agree that the length was fine?

..and exactly how much quicker will you 'get members onto appliances' when the course is only two and a bit days to start off with?  1 day?

[Zippy]

There is to be a upskill sometime this year for instructors and i would hope that this will be the start of the roll out of the new BFF1 that will see it cut down in time.We would all have to agree that its well over due as some of what we where teaching was old and out of date but also some groups where finding it hard to run a course in the time frame or they where making the course longer than what was required.

Lets all hope that the new BFF1 is shorter and that we are able to get members onto appliances alot sooner,having said that we also need to be able to retain these members so I hope we start seeing more rural brigades do training.....

SES Basic Rescue hasnt been updated in over 15 years... saw the date of writing, laughed and left the room.

[Darren]

You got it in one Big Yellow Gong Beater.

What has happened to the CFS I joined 15 years ago. What has happened to the CFS my father joined 30 years ago.

No pride, and the banjo's are getting louder.

[bajdas]

SES Basic Rescue hasnt been updated in over 15 years... saw the date of writing, laughed and left the room.

Ummm I would re-check your information.

The new course was developed over 12 months ago & is being delivered. The new course matches into Public Safety competencies & includes things like cervical collar usage.

I think not all Units are delivering the new course yet due to Instructors being trained in the competency. But my information is old, so hopefully this has been resolved.

With the current recruitment campaign being done by SES SHQ, I hope to do the new course with some recruits starting with another Unit in a few months. This will renew my competency.

[rescue5271]

I dont have a problem with BFF1 and the hours but those at a brigade level are saying its too long for new members.... If you sit down and read the BFF1 as it is now you will see that we do go over a few subjects over and over again...

[Zippy]

I dont have a problem with BFF1 and the hours but those at a brigade level are saying its too long for new members.... If you sit down and read the BFF1 as it is now you will see that we do go over a few subjects over and over again...

Going over things several times is training isnt it?

[chook]

Quite correct Andrew - I was on a "pilot" 16 months ago!
And its a good package - it is a pity our fire fighting friends make comments without checking their facts first. After what I heard from someone from the CFS on the weekend - seems that the old rumour mill is in full speed & some of the statements he made were quite slanderous (especially considering I was actually on two of the jobs he was talking about!) And one of the comments he made about what a fire sales person had said about the future of the CFS would see  the need to increase the length of BFF1 not shorten it!
So I hope you boys & girls are ready, because sometimes you may regret what you wish for
bye    

[Zippy]

Quite correct Andrew - I was on a "pilot" 16 months ago!
And its a good package - it is a pity our fire fighting friends make comments without checking their facts first. After what I heard from someone from the CFS on the weekend - seems that the old rumour mill is in full speed & some of the statements he made were quite slanderous (especially considering I was actually on two of the jobs he was talking about!) And one of the comments he made about what a fire sales person had said about the future of the CFS would see  the need to increase the length of BFF1 not shorten it!
So I hope you boys & girls are ready, because sometimes you may regret what you wish for
bye    

nah, i did "half" of the Basic rescue in late 2007, on what ud say the old material.

[chook]

Why only half Zippy? And the material was almost ready to run in 2007. But egos got in the way - they should have picked up the NSW package instead! Which by the way in about to be reviewed & updated again. Thats the trouble with SA - takes far too long to do anything! And they want to localise everything!
Anyway who cares? No one listens to the vollies anyway
By the way the old stuff still works & is used right aroung the country & around the world still!
cheers

[Zippy]

Why only half Zippy? And the material was almost ready to run in 2007. But egos got in the way - they should have picked up the NSW package instead! Which by the way in about to be reviewed & updated again. Thats the trouble with SA - takes far too long to do anything! And they want to localise everything!
Anyway who cares? No one listens to the vollies anyway
By the way the old stuff still works & is used right aroung the country & around the world still!
cheers

Yeah, my patience ran out for a change.  Now pretty much waiting for a revolution to happen...

[Sarge]

Lets all hope that the new BFF1 is shorter and that we are able to get members onto appliances alot sooner,...

Didn't everyone in this thread just agree that the length was fine?

..and exactly how much quicker will you 'get members onto appliances' when the course is only two and a bit days to start off with?  1 day?

Add to that they can't get on the truck until they have full level one ppe, regardless of how quick they finish the course

[Darren]

How did they do BFF 1 without full level 1 PPE?

[firegun]

Our group issues PPE during the course, before the practical aspect of the course is done, so at the successful completion of the course they are able to respond.