Sunday Mail

[Rainer]

Hi All,

Can I just lay a few issues to rest..

1> Sturt and Lofty didnt go all rogue to the Sunday Mail..In fact we were both contacted by the Sunday Mail for comment following buy "budgets" post and both declined to comment pending seeking advice from our nominated representatives, namely the CFSVA.

At a subsequent meeting with Wendy, Ken Schutz and Wayne Thorley we were given the all clear to proceed with a media release using the replacement of vehicles as the "hook" to engage the public and present other issues as well such as buildings,training,pagers,staff shortages. etc etc.

In fact we were encouraged by the CFSVA to go public and their supporting comments should show that.

Unfortunately the coverage in the Mail was poor and clearly Mcleod's 313 games are more important to the editor of the Mail than CFS issues...As far as facts , we supplied a ream of material however this was badly interpreted and presented.

Anyway thats that and the Media didn run it as much as we had hoped.

What I would like to let the 790 odd members of this forum to know is that despite the shortcomings in the story we were trying to get the ball rolling on CFS issues statewide and not limit it to Lofty or Sturt groups but again it wasnt to be.

What I find disappointing is comments from the west coast that we dont need more money when clearly there is some dissent on this subject from people within you own group Mark.
We need to present a united front like when Ceduna got a special crew cab appliance with red and blue beacons to carry a crew in comfort for long distances and slow truckies down on the Highway (beacons) when the rest of the CFS were issued with single cabs and red beacons only... Oh yes I have a memory like an elephant and I remember the support you got from other regions and groups.

The CFS management are on government contracts and are expected to toe the Govt line or else (not have your contract renewed) or (so you want to be chief one day do you??) and I dont expect anything more from them ...in fact scheiße , Id be toeing the line too after all this is pays my mortgage ...

We need to shift the blame to the Government and hit them where it hurts , votes and public shaming.

If we dont present a single viewpoint they will always divide us and set us against each other.

With this in mind how many of the 790 of you are prepared to fight for the cause even if it has no immediate effect on you or you dont agree with it?

I suppose you have a solution in mind? Maybe we could form a working party or sub-committee to look at the "issues" and present a report that will get ignored because we dont have any money to deal with the issues.

PS I heard the other day that after 2 years of progressing through various working groups and committees the concept of carbon fibre cylinders was endorsed by COAC but because each cylinder costs $20 more than the old ones the process has been stalled because "we need to do a comprehensive business plan prior to implementation to cover the expenditure."

Give me a break.

Facts (and I can only speak on behalf of my own group)

Lofty covers 650 SQ KM of area (most of it high risk peri urban)
over 16000 residents
average of 1100 calls per year
23 frontline FF appliances
8 Stations (1 over 300 CPY, 2 over 150 CPY, 1 over 100 CPY, 4 over 30 CPY)
250 (approx) volunteers.

And as a matter of interest

4% of the CFS brigades in the state (around 20 brigades) account for 94% of the responses.

Now im not having a crack at those less busy but surely you agree that these brigades should be adequately funded.

I encourge you all to freeze your community fundraising accounts for one financial year stop your groups penny pinching and demand the CFS to pay for what your brigades are rightly entitled to...Then and only then will CFS management realise that it actually costs a  hell of a lot more than they realise.

STOP PROPPING UP THE SYSTEM.........

When and if the drive down to parliament house happens I expect you all to be there ...thats 790 volunteers + appliances ....should make a significant impact

Mr moderator perhaps you could start a poll on that and see how committed we all are.

Cheers guys,

Rainer

PS give me a call if you want to discuss (Lofty GO)

Ciao

[Rainer]

PS watch for the courier.

[6739264]

If only 99% of the members of this forums, weren't all talk.

Surely there is nothing stopping us forming a union. Above and beyond the CFSVA...

[CFS_Firey]

...Mr moderator perhaps you could start a poll on that and see how committed we all are...

Poll created.  Find it here: http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php/topic,2280.0.html

[SA Firey]

Well said Rainer, as usual the media only print what they want, if they produced a better account of the facts as you presented the public would have more insight to the problems we face as a service.

Running on a shoestring budget, and also having to fundraise for equipment which should be paid for by the ESL we ALL PAY, is outrageous.

I'll be at the HOUSE when the time comes

[Zippy]

I heard the other day that after 2 years of progressing through various working groups and committees the concept of carbon fibre cylinders was endorsed by COAC but because each cylinder costs $20 more than the old ones the process has been stalled because "we need to do a comprehensive business plan prior to implementation to cover the expenditure."

Another bunch of fail for the Fail pile.

Business Plan....Replace every Cylinder 1 for 1.  Buy in Bulk & Distribute via Regions > Groups > Brigades.  Simple.  Money?...Stop buying so many "comfort" Blankets for new appliances.

[Bagyassfirey]

does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?

[bajdas]

I would support you has a private person.

If I tried in uniform or any SES logo, then a 'code of conduct breach' could head my way. Maybe I would anyway....I would have to think about it.

This issue has been discussed previously with some SES volunteers & higher. Some volunteers feel the same & because SAFECOM handle some of the budgets to the minister, I would suggest you open it too all emergency service volunteers (eg Marine, SES, CFS, retained MFS, UFU & maybe Surf Life).

But a lot of volunteers just want to do the tasking or training & go home. They are complacent regards the politics.

We are all feeling the same money pinch. For instance, have a look at Western Adelaide SES LHQ on Marion Road, near Sir Donald Bradman.

[boredmatrix]

does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?

thats the whole idea of being a united front....

the old adage of "united we stand, divided we fall" wasn't just a war cry to sound good...it actually meant something!!

if anyone is familiar with the AEA - now there is a good union model - you don't have 99.6% membership if you're not doing the job properly.

unfortunately I think that the younger generations don't understand the concept of a united front either.  Gen Y's typically are out for what suits them, and if they don't get it they take their bucket and spade to a different sandpit...completely defeating themselves, and letting down their colleagues in the process!

[whitecloud]

does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?

thats the whole idea of being a united front....

the old adage of "united we stand, divided we fall" wasn't just a war cry to sound good...it actually meant something!!

if anyone is familiar with the AEA - now there is a good union model - you don't have 99.6% membership if you're not doing the job properly.

unfortunately I think that the younger generations don't understand the concept of a united front either.  Gen Y's typically are out for what suits them, and if they don't get it they take their bucket and spade to a different sandpit...completely defeating themselves, and letting down their colleagues in the process!

This exactly. A lot could be learned from the AEA model. Industrial action is very effective, even threats thereof when the membership base comprises that much of an organization so essential to the community.

The problem is the amount of effort that it would take to organise such an action, and to find a willing and appropriate body to govern it.

[Rainer]

does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?

What are they going to do ...Sack you?...cut your pay?...

[Bagyassfirey]

does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?

What are they going to do ...Sack you?...cut your pay?...

haha yea funny funny...what i meant was is the CFS powers to be on side with this??

[jaff]

...what i meant was is the CFS powers to be on side with this??

Yes.......But they can't publicaly say it.

[boredmatrix]

as managers (and public servants) they can't say much to encourage you - but in the absence of actively DISCOURAGING you from doing it....I'd be reading between the lines

as it's been so eloquently put - sackings or pay cuts aren't going to happen - and you don't make an income so can't threaten bans which will have a direct fiscal effect (as seems to work so effectively for the AEA) - so what other options are available?

[chook]

Exactly - this has been discussed many times before. The only hope you have is to publicly shame the government (similar to what the ACT vollies did). And will it work? don't know, but wish you well.

[Bagyassfirey]

Well ladies nad gentlemen boys and girls...MARCH WE SHALL!!!

[Zippy]

ECHUNGA 34 TO MOORE ENGINEERING FOR QUOTATION FOR LIGHT TOWER 03.06.09 13:24 CFS Echunga Info

thinking about "practical and safe" appliances, might be good to focus on,  as lighting on new rural 34's is at best minimum.


Relating this to this thread,  the cost of these...would it fall under the $ 14.5mil capital works budget that is stated by andrew lawson in todays courier.

[6739264]

as it's been so eloquently put - sackings or pay cuts aren't going to happen - and you don't make an income so can't threaten bans which will have a direct fiscal effect (as seems to work so effectively for the AEA) - so what other options are available?

Simple really:

Paperwork bans, that impact the ability of the SACFS to operate (Although it does a good job at this already)

Then do we go to operational things such as not turning out to anything but confirmed life risk, eg: 000 Calls to fires and rescue jobs only. No Alarms, no trees, no flooding, no MVA spillage, only the bare necessity.

[Darius]

...would it fall under the $ 14.5mil capital works budget that is stated by andrew lawson in todays courier.

'capital works' refers to buildings (that's the standard meaning anyway)

[fridgemagnet]

I spoke to work mate of mine who has just come back from working on the west coast as a driller. Word is that a brigade has got out of favour with the cops who sub lease a shed which they lease themselves as the building belongs to another company. If the two can't resolve the differences then their truck will go and nd they will mean no SAPOL or SAAS or SES or CFS at all for that town. Reason given is that they can't afford to build in that region a new station they can only do 2 a year 

it looks like some places in SA are looked after really well by the sate budget 

[Darren]

Your joking !

[Baxter]

Me thinks that fridgey and me are talking about the same brigade.

From talking to a member of the brigade who was told by someone further up the chain that their house burn to quick and having anything better their was a waste of resources. They said they did not consider that a pub, a servo and a school of 35 students with some community infrastructure was worth protecting.

I now that the state a bit tight on the cash but who's going to tell the residents of that town you gonna have to wait for the nearest service to arrive which is a min of 60 k's away. I wonder if they will survive to tell the tale of how it went down.

[chook]

The same government who is not going to spend the cash - there are many remote communities that are around that size & have stuff all! Sadly its the way of the world - is Cockburn still closed?
So I think you all should read Matt's piece, there has been a fair bit of comment on the government not living up to it's end of the bargain, but on this & other threads - some members (& some staff) are not living up to theirs!
As I said on the other thread good luck with it all, but me thinks you have some very powerful opponents & after all an nice couple in North Adelaide don't give two stuffs about a community out in the sticks! And this will continue while 98% of this countries population live on the eastern seaboard. And rural communities slowly die
cheers

[RescueHazmat]

does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?

Yeah, they shut down all the brigades.. Then spend the MILLIONS in replacing them all with Career stations, running appliances + cost, 4 shifts + relief, training, and the courses, cost of recruitment etc.. - Can't see that ever happening.


Mr. Government/CFS.. STEP UP, support your volunteers, or be prepared to face a world of pain in the National and International media when thousands of Volunteers march infront of Govt. House.

I can't recall anywhere in the world where a Fire Service has lobbied in the thousands to support better training, better equipment and better treatment, only so they can better serve their community, free of charge.


I'm imagining the headlines now....

[Baxter]

Chook your example of the cockburn brigade is good one but it needs to be put into correct context. I do know that this is something of an oddity but people want real change in the CFS acting on rumour, Chinese whispers and second hand information will not achieve the desired outcome that we all want to hear.

Cockburn closed due the fact that it was a brigade without sufficient membership. The work that is done of the promotions website particularly on Brigade statistics (yes I do know they are supplied from CFS HQ) does provide a very different picture to who is active and who is not. Hark do I hear you ask why have some brigades have zero hours well those brigade are their own worst emany - All I can say is fill out that paperwork create that paper trail; as all that paper work they try to drown us in can be used to each and every brigade advantage.

As the old adage goes the proof is in the pudding all we have to is add water and stir 

OUTCOME: To produce those headlines that RescueHazmat imagines