Author Topic: Sunday Mail (Read 68701 times)

Bagyassfirey · « **Reply #50 on:** May 25, 2009, 04:28:06 PM »

i see there is now another media release from wendy shirley n ken shutz....Maybe just maybe some are right n we shuld unite for a better service right across the state.

Pipster · « **Reply #51 on:** May 25, 2009, 04:39:49 PM »

Quote from: Zippy on May 25, 2009, 01:14:49 PM

$11965 Per Brigade Per Annum...Average, to utilise $5.6 million on 468 brigades. Very unrealistic figure...but interesting enough.

Someone is getting a lot of money then...my brigade, and the bulk of the ones in my group, don't even get close to $11965 each

Pip

fridgemagnet · « **Reply #52 on:** May 25, 2009, 05:27:04 PM »

Quote from: Zippy on May 25, 2009, 01:14:49 PM

$11965 Per Brigade Per Annum...Average, to utilise $5.6 million on 468 brigades. Very unrealistic figure...but interesting enough.

The Brigade that I am from has only a budget on $3500 or $125 per member ncluding all the service that go into providing that service. Welcome to region 6

Darren · « **Reply #53 on:** May 25, 2009, 10:36:24 PM »

I am only annoyed by the fact that CFS says there is no problem. Hmmmm

But I don't agree with Stirling's example. I think they need to think long and hard about the state things are in there and admit, hey, we can't crew 5 trucks, lets talk to CFS and reduce the fleet. I am sure if you said to CFS, take away my 27 yr old Tanker, 25 yr old 12, and 22 yr old rescue and give me a 34P, they would come to the party. They might even tranfer the tanker from Bradbury to Stirling.

What I am getting at, is things need to be looked at without so much, well this is what we have so we must need it.

I understand the SFEC's are being looked at. Things might change. I think our bosses need to push the envelope and ask for more money, spell it out to LABOR in black and white, we aren't keeping up with fleet replacement and station replacement.

LABOR, what are you going to do about it, I can survive without a tramline or O-Bahn!

bittenyakka · « **Reply #54 on:** May 25, 2009, 11:31:53 PM »

Does anyone expect that a station with 5 trucks could ever crew them all?

I agree with Darren that the top says the isn't a problem this seems a bit odd.

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #55 on:** May 26, 2009, 01:04:15 AM »

I feel I should jump in here and set the record straight about Stirling as I can see some people have the wrong idea, and it's distracting from the issue at hand.

The article in the Sunday Mail was certainly not supposed to centre around Stirling. Stirling already have their fleet plan sorted out and (tentatively) agreed to by the CFS, and that plan does not involve 5 trucks. As a brigade, Stirling is fully aware that 5 trucks isn't necessarily or practical. (Although as far as crewing goes, don't forget you only need 16 FFs for the 5 trucks - a number easily filled on a bad fire day).

Unfortunately, because all the group officers decided to meet at Stirling station, Stirling's trucks got the centre of attention with stories and photos, which made the issue seem to be about Stirling, when it's not. The brigades complaining that they need appliances replaced are Upper Sturt and Bridgewater, with their 12 and 14s respectively. (Plus of course the other issues that have been discussed in this thread).

The photos of Stirling's trucks, and the focus of Stirling on ABC News was probably not the best tactic, and I hope that next time they use another station which won't leave the issue they're driving so ambiguous.

I also find it very disappointing that the CFS corporate has refused to acknowledge there's a lack of funding, they should be taking every opportunity available to take more funding, even if they do think we don't need it.

Unfortunately, I think the issue will simply die down in the media, leaving the public thinking that Mt Lofty Group is a bunch of whingers and the CFS has no problems at all...

chook · « **Reply #56 on:** May 26, 2009, 06:59:57 AM »

I think you will find the O-Bahn extention is federally funded, not state. Also in early parts of the thread some of you mentioned rail projects - again federal not state (its all part of the stimulus package). And with a mass exodus of people out of SA - due to the lack of rain & work, the ESL collection as well as other fund raising ideas (taxes) will reduce - so where do you thing the government is going to get the money from?
The problem is people are not prepared to sacrifice something for the grater good, every town must have a hospital/school/other public funded amenities. The ESL was always a political point scoring exercise by a previous government,(to get a certain group on side) it was never going to fully fund the emergency services. So unless there is an increase in the levy - where will they get the cash? Or what are the services going to give up? Maybe less "sheds", lower specced equipment? The aircraft? As I said previously, your not that hard done by & yes the situation could be improved but remember a third of your state wasn't turned black or under several metres of water so the governments focus is else where

And if the CFS is refusing to acknowledge a lack of funding - what is that saying? maybe the funding is right but just miss spent?

misterteddy · « **Reply #57 on:** May 26, 2009, 08:58:41 AM »

Quote from: chook on May 26, 2009, 06:59:57 AM

I think you will find the O-Bahn extention is federally funded, not state. Also in early parts of the thread some of you mentioned rail projects - again federal not state (its all part of the stimulus package). And with a mass exodus of people out of SA - due to the lack of rain & work, the ESL collection as well as other fund raising ideas (taxes) will reduce - so where do you thing the government is going to get the money from?

Chook, simply you're wrong. The money I referred to in my post for rail infrastructure upgrading was State money in the last budget, quite separate from the Ruddy-munny Federal Drunken Sailor Splash. As for an exodus from SA, quite the opposite, SA has reported a small growth in the population as at Dec 08 (Health Dept figures). So unlike NSW, not all is doom and gloom in SA, in fact overall, things arent too bad in our little end of the world (apart from those filtered that steal our water upstream

)

Quote from: chook on May 26, 2009, 06:59:57 AM

The ESL was always a political point scoring exercise by a previous government,(to get a certain group on side)

funnily enough, I was of the opinion that the ESL was actually proposed by the sector (especially CFS to overcome inadequate and piecemeal funding from recalcitrant councils). The book on the CFS devotes a part of one chapter to it. Interesting reading.

I'm sure sitting in Leeton that $50 million looks like sufficient funding, and the easy answer is to just expect less infrastructure (I mean who needs toilets so long as u can get the local Landcare group with their State funded trees to plant an outdoor loo or two at the back of the station), and less capable equipment (Rainer mentioned being told to buy an axe when they asked for a chainsaw - you sure you don't work for the CFS in your spare time Chook???) - but at the end of the day, the public outside of the CBD deserve exactly the same level of service as those that crowd the space near the beach. If suddenly Mt Barker became an MFS station, then the level of funding for the provision of fire and rescue services in that area would increase exponentially ( apart from wages), thats just not equitable.

As for aircraft, thats one thing we cant bitch about in the funding arguement, most of them are paid for by the Federal Gov, and the Skycrane was additional supplementary funding by the State Gov. A waste of money yes......but its separate money, not our operating budget.

Yes, every town must have a school, hospital (except most don't) and other public amenities .....that includes an emergency service infrastructure capable of operating 24/7 365 days a year- Funded appropriately.

Zippy · « **Reply #58 on:** May 26, 2009, 09:30:58 AM »

Quote

I also find it very disappointing that the CFS corporate has refused to acknowledge there's a lack of funding, they should be taking every opportunity available to take more funding, even if they do think we don't need it.

This is the text i should be reading in the Advertisers Opinion Column....

jaff · « **Reply #59 on:** May 26, 2009, 10:19:11 AM »

Okay so if we agree we need more money for brigade running(I certainly do, the current deficit is masked by goodwill of members) and if as some posters have said there is no more money to be had from government......then the answer is to make better use of the money provided for the E.S, perhaps some at SAFECOM could justify their existence!

chook · « **Reply #60 on:** May 26, 2009, 10:27:48 AM »

I stand corrected MT - (on the O-Bahn thing anyway) & yes you are right communities have expectations - but my question is the same "what are communities prepared to give up?". Your organisation just does not support the vollies claim - why not?
The exodus thing was from employment agencies who have had numerous enquiries from croweaters looking for work & people I know who are looking for work & the fact that I have been looking for positions in SA (0)- I agree on the NSW comment though - thats how I know about what communities have to give up

The water thing - well thats a whole different story (we are loosing jobs hand over fist due to the drought & government policies).
It just seems to me there is a fair amount of disagreement on whether the article was a) factual, b) a true picture of the current situation & c) what is adequate? for as long as I can remember the some members of the CFS have complained about budgets & about once a year someone is in the media complaining. I would have thought if the situation was so bad that 1) there would be a Royal commission & 2) you wouldn't have any members?
Anyway I wish you all the best in your latest push for more money, but somehow I don't think it will work until you can come up with one voice that actually makes sense

cheers

firegun · « **Reply #61 on:** May 26, 2009, 11:05:14 AM »

I agree with CFS_firey, (well part of it) it is not about one or 2 brigades it is about the whole service.
I think we all agree that we need more money, how much, where it comes from etc i don't know but when we get it, then the allocation of funds to what will be a "purler" of a debate.

My understanding is we have 2 "systems" in place to guide the decision makers in who gets what out of the money "bucket"
first is the SFEC (which is being reviewed i believe) and
the funding matrix that has been developed in the past few years to allocate funds per brigade based on many line items including no of calls.

It seems that the 2 systems have worked to some degree in the sense that the limited finances available to us is spread around the state.
Not only to provide essential equipment to brigades and members but to start and provide some new or updated stations to those brigades who, for whatever reason are lacking in the most basic of facilities i.e. power and toilets etc.

Surely no one would deny such brigades such basic items?
As i have said before i believe the construction of some of the stations that have occurred in the past few years has exceeded the requirements of individual brigades in regard to providing of facilities to meet the CFS responsibilities in regard to the workplace under the OHS act.

I believe now that this is being addressed.

It would be remiss of any manager of a brigade or group not to try and get more money or equipment for their brigade or group and sometimes the "squeaky wheel gets the oil" but in our case to the detriment of some other "project" within the CFS.

It would be nice to find say $50 mill to get ALL of the brigades up to a standard (what ever it might be) and where ever they might be, and then be able to then look at other areas to improve the service.

cheers

Zippy · « **Reply #62 on:** May 26, 2009, 12:11:16 PM »

If we had an extra $20 million for one financial year aka ZIPPY's Daily Dream

Idea- Re: Toliets and State of building- Station Audit's performed by Region
- Brigade Captain can give a short opinion of the state of the station building.
- If station has significant issues that affect volunteers and responses, Fast Track Station building replacement to be done with the funding within 1 years.
- If No Toilet is Attached, Depending on the state of the building and available area for construction addition. Fast Track Station building replacement with the funding within 2 years.

Highlight from Annual report: 30-45 Years is given as a buildings "working life".

As for appliances.

All appliances between 18-22 Years old: Earmarked for replacement within 4 Years.
All appliances over 22 years old: Fast track of replacement or review of SFEC within 2 Years.

If call rate is on *average* above 40 Calls, replace old vehicles with appliances lesser than 6 years old.
If call rate is below: Replace with vehicles between 6 and 10 years old. (To avoid $350,000 appliances sitting still awaiting 0 or 1 call a year)

Appliance Maintainence/Repairs
Brigade's submit situation forms to be assessed by Region for earmarking the Overhaul of appliance. Prioritised with a due date for all funded projects to be completed within 3 years. (Eg Faulty Pump)

CFS Staffing
Create a 8x Technical Services Positions for placement into regions/state according to need, for a contract of 5 years.

All left over monies.
- Divided out according to the "funding matrix" not SFEC. For First Aid Kit, Branch & Hose Replacement only.

Darius · « **Reply #63 on:** May 26, 2009, 04:55:19 PM »

Quote from: CFS_Firey on May 26, 2009, 01:04:15 AM

I also find it very disappointing that the CFS corporate has refused to acknowledge there's a lack of funding, they should be taking every opportunity available to take more funding, even if they do think we don't need it.

this is perhaps the biggest thing to come out of it (I think). That the CFS acting chief officer follows the government line (spin) and falls back on the old 'above SFEC minimum' argument (ignoring all the other points like that the SFEC is at least 15 years behind the times). He had a perfect opportunity to support and unite all CFS members (volunteers and the paid staff) and push for increased funding. Sure he may well worry it would be a 'career limiting move' but it just shows where he stands I think. And as he should well know, CFS paid staff are just as cheesed off about the reductions in budgets, lack of staff, unpaid overtime etc.

the other thing to note is all the group officers and deputies involved spoke about, and gave examples of, a lot more things than made it into the paper. For whatever reason the Sunday Mail chose to limit the story to just a few items.

Zippy · « **Reply #64 on:** May 26, 2009, 05:18:28 PM »

Could you give us an insight into which issues were not published?

Is it really worth putting yourself "on the bad side a potentionally thousands of volunteers" to ensure your career can develop further.

It will only produce lack of confidence in the person when he ends up being the Chief Officer...he could easily end up being a Costello (treasurer, never PM). Is he angry about that, nup. Was he still a nuffer, Yes.

Pipster · « **Reply #65 on:** May 26, 2009, 05:43:59 PM »

CEO's of Govt departments often tread a very fine line...keeping their workers happy, and keeping their Minister happy.

Going directly against your Minister, especially in public, can make your life very difficult, as can upsetting your workers.....

Pip

Zippy · « **Reply #66 on:** May 26, 2009, 06:34:16 PM »

soooo glad theres a loophole...vote out the minister at his local seat, keep voting them out until they relise hang on...maybe its the volunteers voting is out

misterteddy · « **Reply #67 on:** May 26, 2009, 09:18:38 PM »

Quote from: Pipster on May 26, 2009, 05:43:59 PM

CEO's of Govt departments often tread a very fine line...keeping their workers happy, and keeping their Minister happy.

Going directly against your Minister, especially in public, can make your life very difficult, as can upsetting your workers.....

Pip

just ask the DPP

Darius · « **Reply #68 on:** May 27, 2009, 09:34:25 AM »

Quote from: Zippy on May 26, 2009, 05:18:28 PM

Could you give us an insight into which issues were not published?

all the things you probably already know about, eg. group/brigades get a budget of $x per year but have to buy computers through safecom at twice the going rate they could get them locally, command cars leased through fleetsa rather than local arrangements with a dealer etc. All money which is taken back from your budget back to govt coffers. The other side being brigades are no longer buying locally and supporting local businesses yet the CFS goes on about wanting the local community to support the CFS. Long standing holes in the paging network (specific examples given of Mylor and Montacute) and statewide over 100 brigade areas where the coverage is deemed by CFS to be below the min acceptable standard. And plenty more.

Baxter · « **Reply #69 on:** May 27, 2009, 11:15:20 PM »

I was contacted by the sunday mail and declined but in hind sight I should of spoken up. Some the items that have been purchased by Brigades in my neck of the woods include, first aid kits, wet weather gear, paint for the station, emergency lighting for the station and getting computer donated to the Brigade.

When I read financial report os of brigade expenaces where it states that nearly $1000 is spent on station mainteance and no sign of it has occured or $450.00 on a fax maichine and the list goes; makes me wonder where the money really goes.

Zippy · « **Reply #70 on:** May 28, 2009, 07:57:04 AM »

SACFS has advertised for a "BUILDING FIRE SAFETY OFFICER", wonder if this is additional or a replacement....and the trigger have been the article

tft · « **Reply #71 on:** May 28, 2009, 10:09:59 AM »

No, government takes ages to make new positions.
501 steps to making new jobs

2468 · « **Reply #72 on:** May 28, 2009, 10:15:02 AM »

The building fire safety officer position has been vacant for over a year now since Max left. It's been advertised three times with no adaquate takers.

SA Firey · « **Reply #73 on:** May 29, 2009, 04:50:54 PM »

Quote from: 2468 on May 28, 2009, 10:15:02 AM

The building fire safety officer position has been vacant for over a year now since Max left. It's been advertised three times with no adaquate takers.

The money is ($65862.00/70765.00)
that's why

rescue5271 · « **Reply #74 on:** May 29, 2009, 06:16:26 PM »

No that postion has been filled..... having just come back from a week of working up in the HILL'S and having a look at some fire stations I can now say that there are some very well maintained stations up there and it does not matter if you come from a urban or rural area I am sure that some brigades down here would love to have what you guys have....having said that I would say that most of the money raised by local brigade's and its community would have helped things along.

This week also proved one thing to me and that it does not matter if your a volunteer in region 1 or 6 or 4 or where ever each group and brigade have the same probelms be it appliances,ppe or station doors that take a while to open...I am sure if we where to ask those who take photos of stations and appliances that are run down that we could write a book about it, the article did not show all of its photos there is one of the whole group offers who have spoken up.. I say to them well done and we wait and see if anything will get done......

Author Topic: Sunday Mail (Read 68701 times)

Darren

misterteddy

misterteddy

rescue5271