NASTY NASTY

[Bagyassfirey]

yea mate i was on the R4 strike team..ya did a awsum job in trying conditions 

[6739264]

yea its nasty by sound of it MFS apliances being responded..

So nasty infact, that SAMFS was the first service turned out to it!

Probably because it is MFS area.......

Pip

That was exactly what I was trying to imply...

i think Mister Teddy is trying to highlight the "Tunnel vision" approach to large fires.  BUT, it seemed the rest of the state was being managed well.

The CFS needs to be ready for Multiple Large Fires. maybe even TWO or THREE in the same region.

ARE YOU BUSHFIRE READY?

The CFS will never be ready for multiple large fires in the state. There are just not enough resources. The '05 fires were pushing the boundaries of the CFS's capabilities with only two major fires. If there had been any other fires of a large size (Had Mt. Bold not been knocked down earlier in the day for example) it would well have been game over for the MLR.

Mister teddy all i want to say is you fight the fire you have, not the one you may get...

One the worst days that fires can occur aircraft are often grounded and become useless, so they used them why they could, what ever happened to a fire being fought by fire trucks and ground crew, you have all become too dependent on the aircraft, one day there will be too many fires and what will you all do, say this is too big for us and go home. pull your heads in.

Stop posting drunk mate. 

The age old saying "Fight the fire you have, not the one you might have" is great, to a point, but at the same time we still need to keep in mind the risks we have to cover. This is the same concept behind not turning out every truck in your station to every nonsense call, just because you can.

Who is this 'you' you're talking about? Personally I hate having the aircraft around - it ruins the fun, although there are a number of people, mianly the general public, who think the aircraft are gods gift to firefighting (Thanks a lot media dept.) but to tar all of 'us' with that brush, is more than a little rough.

As far as the decisions made to move air support on the day, one would hope that the decisions were made based on what would be best operationally as well as what could still cover the areas of risk around the state. I'm sure that there was no external pressure, no bias and no political game playing at all, especially not only a few days after the anniversary of the '05 Lincoln Incident... none at all...

[jaff]

Sarcasm detector just made a BEEP noise

[Bagyassfirey]

Stop posting drunk mate. 

The age old saying "Fight the fire you have, not the one you might have" is great, to a point, but at the same time we still need to keep in mind the risks we have to cover. This is the same concept behind not turning out every truck in your station to every nonsense call, just because you can.

Who is this 'you' you're talking about? Personally I hate having the aircraft around - it ruins the fun, although there are a number of people, mianly the general public, who think the aircraft are gods gift to firefighting (Thanks a lot media dept.) but to tar all of 'us' with that brush, is more than a little rough.

As far as the decisions made to move air support on the day, one would hope that the decisions were made based on what would be best operationally as well as what could still cover the areas of risk around the state. I'm sure that there was no external pressure, no bias and no political game playing at all, especially not only a few days after the anniversary of the '05 Lincoln Incident... none at all...
[/quote]

Having aircraft around ruins the fun??? What the? What fun are u talking about???

[Alan J]

Mister teddy all i want to say is you fight the fire you have, not the one you may get...

One the worst days that fires can occur aircraft are often grounded and become useless,
so they used them why they could, what ever happened to a fire being fought by fire trucks and ground crew, you have all become too dependent on the aircraft, one day
there will be too many fires and what will you all do, say this is too big for us and
go home. pull your heads in.

Ahhhh soooo Big Bronto...
You arguing that the Pt Lincoln people were being too dependant upon the extra
aircraft & should have stuck to their appliances....

That's a brave call !!!   

"fight the fire you have, not the one you might get" is only true if you are
on a local fireground, & even then not fully.  From BFF1, remember the word
"Exposures"... 

Goes hand-in-hand with the word "Risk".
The further up the food-chain, the wider & larger the risks. And exposures.

Doubtless SARC consulted their risk matrix & decided the near-certainty of
catastrophe by not redeploying, outweighed the mere possibility of Bad Things
happening if they did.  Tough call, but probably the right one on the day.
At least in the Hills, with all brigades on active stand-by, there are enough
appliances around to give us a fair chance of whacking out-breaks while they
are small.

Irrespective of aircraft redeployments, we were all very lucky last Tuesday.

cheers

[rescue5271]

Air support has come a long way since it was introducted in Australia we should be thankful that we have it and its always good to see it over head when we need it. CFS made a good call sending more aircraft to this fire and I stand by that. It has been said over and over again deal with the fire you have at hand and if one other does pop up you then deal with that. I am sure that CFS did have some plan's in place just in case something else did pop up I know down here we can always call on for help from CFA with aircraft if needed.

The other thing to remember what did we use to do in the past when we had no aircraft??  We used fire appliances....and we still do when air support is not around....

[big bronto]

No Mr Julian i was saying that if another fire popped up some where else god help us if it is the mt lofty ranges how will we do it the people there would have just handle it, do the job and do what they can.

[Alan J]

Nowadays, when brigades are on active standby anyway, we in the MLR have
probably got the best chance of containing ignition of anywhere in the
state through sheer weight of numbers. What are we looking at.... maybe
30% of all CFS brigades concentrated into 5% of SA land-mass ?

Actually wasn't disagreeing with you Mr Bronto.  Just pointing out that
your choice of argument could be used against you. 

cheers

[Baxter]

The use of aircraft at fires are only a part of the total responce, and after going to a workshop on working with aircraft the CFS will tell you that they are there to support the on ground work that we do as firey's. After being to fires where aircraft have and have not been responded the use of aircraft just to act as air observers can be very beneficial with aiding in the containment of that fire.

From working in various parts of the states Regions 6 has a large area of the state to cover arguably not as big as Region 4, and the number of personal they have available to them is not that great compared to regions 1 and 2. With the location of the tuna processing plants and other associated industry being on the fringe of the city these company's provide significant income for the city not to mention employment. As was mentioned eralier the risk matrix needs to be taken into consideration which could of allowed the redeployment of the aircraft to Lincoln. If Brigades in the both Regions 1 and 2 were on active or passive stand by this maybe interpreted as being an alternative to having aircraft stationed in these regions.

After seeing what occurred at Lincoln I would say the use of aircraft was a reasonable call as the fire did threaten both industrial and residential areas.

[6739264]

Having aircraft around ruins the fun??? What the? What fun are u talking about???

Tongue firmly in cheek mate.

[Bagyassfirey]

ahh no worries numbers 

[RescueHazmat]

what an absolute joke......a moderate sizes fire ( it can't even be called a big fire) and just about all the air assetts in the state are converged on one little bit of real estate.

Yeah yeah, I know its all as a response to Wangarry and the Coroner and all that crap......but u know....if someone else's town in SA burns today..then the same questions are going to be asked and the same barbs will be thrown....it's about time we had a really hard look at what we do with aircraft because this sort of kneejerk response is b/s.  100,000 people live in a bushfire prone zone called the Mt Lofty Ranges than do in a bit of mallee scrub on the outskirts of Pt Lincoln. Poor risk assessment here, imho. Sure...there will be public scrutiny of the decision, and even some tough questions, but it goes with making the tough calls.

Maybe something to do with the millions (dollar wise) in assets threatened/ lost.. ?

[safireservice]

what an absolute joke......a moderate sizes fire ( it can't even be called a big fire) and just about all the air assetts in the state are converged on one little bit of real estate.

Yeah yeah, I know its all as a response to Wangarry and the Coroner and all that crap......but u know....if someone else's town in SA burns today..then the same questions are going to be asked and the same barbs will be thrown....it's about time we had a really hard look at what we do with aircraft because this sort of kneejerk response is b/s.  100,000 people live in a bushfire prone zone called the Mt Lofty Ranges than do in a bit of mallee scrub on the outskirts of Pt Lincoln. Poor risk assessment here, imho. Sure...there will be public scrutiny of the decision, and even some tough questions, but it goes with making the tough calls.

Maybe something to do with the millions (dollar wise) in assets threatened/ lost.. ?

So will an inquest on the MFS's handling of this fire occur? I believe it was MFS area going by the initial page, they were responded 1st up by themselves (even though it was a scheiße of a day)?

[Firefrog]

Let's keep this discussion well away from speculation on any investigation or inquiry.

[boredmatrix]

Maybe something to do with the millions (dollar wise) in assets threatened/ lost.. ?

and hence the knockon effect to YOUR insurance premiums in the future....



[sings]the leg bone is connected to the...health department, the health department is connected to.....medicare...medicare is connected to the...government....the government gets it's cash from....Us mob.....us mob pay insurance to the .......CORPORATE PPUSSYCATS.....the corporate pussycats have mates in the .....Government.....the government is connected to the....TAX OFFICE.....[\sings]

[Robert-Robert34]

At least we didnt have Black Tuesday II due to all 3 fire fighting agencies working together with farmers and most likely council workers to prevent it from doing more damage than it had already done

[Alan (Big Al)]

Yes i'm sure all the farmers in their utes with their garden hoses really helped

[Bagyassfirey]

ease up big al dont stir us farmers up...

[boredmatrix]

Yes i'm sure all the farmers in their utes with their garden hoses really helped

mmm..let me think back to when i was on the farm in WA many moons ago....in the shearing shed and watch a lightning strike start a stubble fire   - down tools....in the trucks - out there in 2 mins...fire out and back to the shearing...only to have the local firey's turn up 30 mins later looking for a fire........


no...you're right.......farmers and their hoses really are worthless......

[Bagyassfirey]

to right matrix...there would be numerous of call outs a year that brigades spend time driving around lookin 4 a fire cos us farmers have gone in put it out n gone home again before they can slide their strides on a leave the shed 

[Alan (Big Al)]

Not saying they're not a help worked with them many times, was just a comment aimed more at the Pt lincoln fire. 

[Bagyassfirey]

hhmmm well i saw quite a few "farmers units" at Pt Lincoln so not exactly sure what ur trying to get at...

[Alan (Big Al)]

   Sheesh never mind too hard, and people take it to heart to much.

[Bagyassfirey]

looks like they are throwing everything at a grass fire @ bridgwater...are we going to say thats over resourcing i don think so......

[Alan (Big Al)]

No just Lofty group procedure