Author Topic: new level 3 gear (LION) (Read 92048 times)

Mike · « **Reply #75 on:** July 20, 2005, 09:07:14 AM »

The training PBI was only to be used for Live fire simulations....
Its turnout gear, if it breaks in that kind of training, then theres something wrong with it... Besides Id rather have it happen at training than on a job....

Firey9119 · « **Reply #76 on:** July 29, 2005, 12:52:23 AM »

is there any station that has this gear yet???

if not any idea when it is due to be issued

oz fire · « **Reply #77 on:** July 29, 2005, 10:29:16 AM »

Have a look at this link: http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=23.0

failing it working go to equipment and then the posts on new level 3 gear!

The discussion has been going on and on and on and on and on now for a month or ......... with many 'ex spert' opinions

Mike · « **Reply #78 on:** August 01, 2005, 12:21:55 PM »

hehe..... on and on, with lots of "I think's" and "What about's" and not much "I know".....

The joys of speculation!

FF_Rayner · « **Reply #79 on:** August 02, 2005, 11:47:42 AM »

some stirling memebrs have them. Other BA operators are being measured up.

strikeathird · « **Reply #80 on:** August 02, 2005, 04:39:11 PM »

Can these posts be moved into one of the other 6 or so discussions on PBI?? Soon we could have a PBI category....

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #81 on:** August 02, 2005, 06:05:35 PM »

Quote from: strikeathird on August 02, 2005, 04:39:11 PM

Can these posts be moved into one of the other 6 or so discussions on PBI?? Soon we could have a PBI category....

hehehehe, why not?
Just noticed that some people at Balhannah have it, from CFS promo unit's website:
http://users.chariot.net.au/~janinek/photogallery/page6photos/1-balhannahcrash-Dsc_3689.jpg

CFS_fire32 · « **Reply #82 on:** August 03, 2005, 11:59:02 AM »

I notice that the Oakbank/Balhannah lieutenant is wearing his PBI at an MVA.
My brigade, having purchased 5 sets of this PBI - one of which I have received - have had it drummed into us by our brigade captian that the operational use of PBI gold is limited ONLY to structural fire-fighting and related callouts eg, fixed/private alarms, house fires, etc...

Dont get me wrong, I am all for additional operational useage of PBI eg. MVA's, car fires etc. (excluding rural fire-fighting of course), but is the story that my group/brigade is being told different to that of other brigades now using PBI gold?

fire03rescue · « **Reply #83 on:** August 03, 2005, 12:24:49 PM »

The MFS wear the PBI to all calls, I am not sure if all MFS firefighters have the PBI. On tv you can see the new and old turnout gear.

Firefrog · « **Reply #84 on:** August 03, 2005, 02:33:35 PM »

There probably does need to be a CFS wide directive especially what is appropriate for grass/scrub fires. But for most everything else this gear is exactly what should be worn. IMO.

It really isn't that heavy and provides the best protection at all manner of jobs. I personally would not like to see a situation where you only put it on for structure related jobs.

Wear the stuff & get comfortable with it. It is so much better than the outgoing level 3 gear.

If working around an MVA why not have the best protection. Don't be forced to settle for less than adequate protection at high risk jobs. It will protect better against fire/explosion, hydraulic line failure (help stop you being injected by hydraulic fluid), better prevents sharps penetration etc etc.

Be mindful of heat stress but there is too much focus on the gear being hot, it really is ok. Drink lots & be fit for your role and you will be fine. Dress down when you can to shed some heat.

All my opinion

TillerMan · « **Reply #85 on:** August 03, 2005, 02:43:22 PM »

I'm with you firefrog.

I have been told even if you wear this gear to ash wednesday everyday for 10 years it will still be in good condition.
I wear it for everything except grass fires. I've heard it is being certified for level one gear without the liners in but i still can't see why they can't give us a nomex work shirt and if the fire gets a bit intense we can just throw our jacket on.
It's not as bigger deal as everyone makes it out to be, it's new gear to replace the old gear so just wear it. It is so expensive because it is so well made and will last along time.

Mike · « **Reply #86 on:** August 03, 2005, 03:21:04 PM »

Your example is probably a little 2 lax.... when we were measured up I quizzed the manufacturers about UV degregation. They said that if exposed all the time, lifespan would be severely reduced. (sighted a case in NZ).

Someone from region visited our station the other day and saw my PBI in the locker, Nomex hanging on the door, with the door pushed around as far as it could go.... so i could keep a bit of air flow there.... Our Capt. said he was horrified to see it. That the locker had to be kept closed tight....

Now interestingly enough, the gear at STC was stored in shelves in the RCR shed. Skylights and windows galore, and nothing covering the gear. Will be interesting to see how it lasts!

Likewise, i agree firefrog. The gear is there because it offers the best protection. Why would we go for less.... and its really not as hot as people say have been raving about. Use it sensible and there wont be a problem.

TillerMan · « **Reply #87 on:** August 03, 2005, 03:33:13 PM »

yeah uv is an issue, from speaking to the girls at lion the uv issue was more for m.f.s because they have glass roller doors and our gear should be fine. For info m.f.s hang their gear up inside out while off shift.

fire03rescue · « **Reply #88 on:** August 03, 2005, 04:13:36 PM »

If you only use the level 3 gear for structure fires, what happens if you have a grass fire

Do you take your PBI as well

Sometimes grass fires turn into shed fires, house fires etc
Currently with the nomex you can take your level 3 liner with you.
So what do people do

any procedures for this problem

TillerMan · « **Reply #89 on:** August 03, 2005, 04:27:21 PM »

At the moment we take both sets to grass fires which is a pain, thats why i think we should at least be able to wear our pants all the time and either take two jackets or have a nomex work shirt which is basically a nomex jacket without a liner.

strikeathird · « **Reply #90 on:** August 03, 2005, 06:31:38 PM »

Amen to the NOMEX work shirt comment !!!!

CFS_fire32 · « **Reply #91 on:** August 03, 2005, 06:56:36 PM »

Quote from: Firefrog on August 03, 2005, 02:33:35 PM

There probably does need to be a CFS wide directive especially what is appropriate for grass/scrub fires. But for most everything else this gear is exactly what should be worn. IMO.

I agree, as I am receiving conflicting stories and it is very hard to ignore the directions of a brigade captain, although I believe he has been given incorrect information - no fault of his.
All brigades should receive an offical CFS directive (sooner rather than later) outling the types of PPE including proban, nomex and pbi and the uses and restrictions of each type of garment. This would finally clear up any doubts and misconceptions about pbi and its useage, especially mine.

TillerMan · « **Reply #92 on:** August 04, 2005, 12:51:56 AM »

Yes, i would have thought when planning to get new gear such a directive would come naturally as part of the planning, no point buying a certain garment if you don't know what you want to use it for.
As for the directive i have heard one is coming out, but as with alot of other things c.f.s is being re-active not pro-active.

strikeathird · « **Reply #93 on:** August 04, 2005, 03:43:01 PM »

Bit like the Flash hoods " directive "....

But, we wont get started on that out of thread...

oz fire · « **Reply #94 on:** August 05, 2005, 02:17:42 PM »

My uncles, sisters, nieces, brother in-laws,s nephews, cousin's cat once wrote a directive on the wearing of flea collars - however that didn't make it to everyone and hence not all cats wear flea collars!

There is a directive on Level 3 PPE (of which BPI is a form of)It's been there for years - maybe consult the manuals on your fire station shelves.

And before you all start - how many posts have I read about "numerous memos, policies, procedures and alike that HQ write that we have to know - we are volunteers" so maybe - look, listen read and learn

strikeathird · « **Reply #95 on:** August 05, 2005, 05:21:13 PM »

So, as volunteers you would think we are entitled to wear what ever equipment which is available to us, that makes our job safer ?? But then policies stop that from happening cause of political bullshit.

CFS_fire32 · « **Reply #96 on:** August 10, 2005, 10:08:54 AM »

I have been informed from a group level that the use of pbi gold is restricted ONLY to structural fire-fighting and it is not approved for useage at any other type of incident, including MVA's , HAZMAT etc. This is where our nomex/proban ppe comes into play.

Brigades using pbi for multi-purpose incidents have been given misleading information, however this gets back to my previous point regarding a CFS directive.

Anyway, looks like I might be needing to take two sets of gear to some call outs, just in case a structure fire eventuates from a non-structural call-out. Don't know how practical it will be in the long run?

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #97 on:** August 10, 2005, 05:47:59 PM »

Sounds like the old issue with having structure and bushfire helmets, do you bring both, just in case?
Is there a safety reason that the PBI Gold isn't to be worn at other incidents? or is it just so that they can control its use, and lifetime better?

Mike · « **Reply #98 on:** August 11, 2005, 01:01:08 PM »

Heard the comments from that GO, and hit him up about it after the meeting.

The official stance passed down from R1:

PBI is ONLY to be used for STRUCTURAL fires and BA training.

I told him what I thought of that directive (he though it was a fair comment) and offered the following explanations.

PBI has been rated for Structure fires only, nothing else. This being the case, no-one is willing to risk the fact of 'if something was to happen'...

I asked "what about promotional events?, surely we sould be using our cleanest and most proffesional looking gear!" once again no..... not so much due to rating but lifespan of the product.. and the exposure to UV issue..

I floated the issue of PBI Pants and Nomex Coat for grassies and the like. 1 - it would save on cost of gear for crew and 2 - ment we had to take less with us. Once again, the pants arnt rated as such and no-one is willing to risk it.

Apparently the powers that be are not going to move on these aspects, at least until the rating changes, or we get another type of gear!

I then asked what the differene was between wearing the gear promotionally and having it on the truck 'in case of a structure fire'. Still gets the same amount of light in the end. As well as questioning how we were ment to sit in the truck with a heap of gear around our feet....

Reply: Dont take both sets.. If responding to a non structure type incident, then treat it as such and wear the appropriate gear. If something was to eventuate from the initial fire, then it would be delt with at the time.

Im sure he has his reasons and defence for making such a comment, if something ever did happen.... but it was getting real late by then.

I discussed it.... dont take it as gospel, but its the closest thing Ive had to a directive so far. He agreed that it was a stupid idea to have a $1200 set of gear that can only be used... maybe 10 times a year.... if lucky.... but it comes from above his head

strikeathird · « **Reply #99 on:** August 11, 2005, 10:25:11 PM »

The powers that be need a kick in the head sometimes. I have also heard similarly to what you stated Mike. Rather annoying isn't it.

I think it should also be cleared for Car/ Vehicle fires, due to the intense heat, and danger possibilities etc. MVA's, I don't see a problem with it either.

I ask this, if Mets are able to wear their PBI pants with a nomex work shirt, and if we come under the SAFECOM banner.....Why can't we ??