Author Topic: Auto vs Manual Transmissions (Read 18584 times)

COBB · « **on:** October 30, 2008, 12:19:48 PM »

I understand that some of the new trucks are coming with Auto transmissions. (this is in addition to the ones the CFS already have)

What are peoples opinions or preferences on Auto vs Manual?
Are there advantages or disadvantages with either?

Zippy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2008, 12:49:15 PM »

Preference: Auto
Advantage: one less thing to think about
Disadvantage: less control of the vehicles engine/manoverability.
Fix: Be a good driver.

Cameron Yelland · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2008, 04:18:25 PM »

Fair enough...those that drive auto cars have an excuse but those who drive manual cars.....wtf?

how can you say you cant concentrate on gear changes as well as driving on the fire ground? i mean the streets of adelaide are probably worse than any fireground.

Are we becoming that lazy that our brains cant function on 2 things at once?

As to any advantages/disadvantages........i believe an auto costs an extra $60,000 on a truck (i could be wrong as this was a 2nd hand figure), which could be spent elsewhere. So to me any advantage is outweighed by this fact alone!

KDOO_BTO · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2008, 04:48:05 PM »

If you can't drive a manual you should have a filtered licence.

Darren · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2008, 08:34:22 PM »

Its an extra 30 grand, I would say yes for the pumpers, but no for offroad vehicles. Also remember, most people that drive CFS truck only drive on CFS calls or training, so they might be rusty, plus when your driving in an urban area like where I am, not having to change gears makes life easier, stop starting at lights, roundabouts etc etc.

Alan (Big Al) · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2008, 09:05:57 PM »

If we had a new 34 and 34P i would have manual on 34 and auto on 34P as our urban truck only uses 4wd maybe 6-10 times a year.

Pixie · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:08:17 PM »

talking from my experience with 4x4 cars, (im not a truck drive, yet, and thus only have limited experience driving a manual 24).

autos are much much much better in off road situations for numerous reasons, no clutch to worry about. be that slipping when under extreme pressure, slipping whilst wet from a water crossing, or when trying to negotiate extremely steep variable terrain (rock crawling) you don't have to worry about trying to slip the clutch to gain traction, without spinning the wheels.

no issues with hill starts. or extended hill climbs.

i agree that if someone cant drive a manual they shouldn't be driving a fire truck, but, i am also of the opinion that if there is an easier option available, take it!

as i said i only have experience with driving cars, but from my experience , in pretty much all circumstances, autos win. ie. city driving, auto wins because less attention to gearbox. (i know it shouldn't take much). in 4x4ing, auto wins hands down. no slipping clutch, ever!

although, i would love to see all our off road firetrucks & 14/qrv's fitted with auto boxes, and selectable diff locks front and rear.

Mike · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:31:59 PM »

I disagree Pixie.

Autos run on down hills, are unable to do stall recovery, will 'hunt for gears and do other innappropriate gear changes. After all one of the fundamental rules is to select the appropriate gear before tackling any obsticles

Manuals in 4x4 situations are much better.

Whilst I would like to say manual for urban built in environments as well, I cant disagree with the benifits of auto for this application.

bittenyakka · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:36:24 PM »

gee I to haven;t driven the large trucks but

In any 4x4ing i have much preferred to drive a manual, if only for better engine breaking. And i also have no issues with putting a bit of slip on the clutch it works.

I will admit however i haven't had much experience with auto gearboxes of any type and those i have i hadn't liked.

And i agree with Mike since he posed while i was typing.

6739264 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 31, 2008, 12:59:09 AM »

I'd be happy with Auto in Urban applications and Manual for rural. You need the versatility of the manual when it comes to off road use. As much as we shouldn't be taking our fire appliances TOO far into 4wding territory, it is still good to have the enhanced ability there if an emergency requires it.

Although as Mike has said autos have their issues that do appear in even 'Urban' driving. Boxes that kick down when you're trying to sit on the limiter up a hill and boxes that kick up when you're trying to hold it back down a hill can cause problems, especially in some of the hilly areas. (oddly enough)

I think that regardless of the transmission the CFS should look at a little more driver training so people can control the truck with either box.

Shiner · « **Reply #10 on:** October 31, 2008, 05:13:42 AM »

One observation I have had on many occasions is that those driving a manual diesel truck have no idea how to use the torque of a diesel and insist on running the engine well into the buzzer before changing gear.

You can make quicker progress by not trying to 'rev the nuts' off a diesel, save that for the petrol engines.....

For that reason, as stated in some posts above, auto makes a bit more sense where many drivers are 'occasional' and/or inexperienced. Or, better education!

This is a bit like a Ford/Holden debate, there will never be a winner as both have their plus points and minus points, however, why let that get in the way of a healthy heated debate!!

For reference, I'm a manual man through and through, however do enjoy driving the Hooker (R3 Hook Truck) which is auto but this is a truck that should not be doing any extreme off roading!

Darius · « **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2008, 08:01:36 AM »

All the negative comments here about autos are obviously from people used to auto cars and 4WDs, the autos in these new appliances is totally different and you try one, or speak to a brigade with one, before getting too excited about it. That's the purpose of this trial after all.

From what I've heard from Echunga who have one, they were mostly dead against it at the start for all the same 'reasons' mentioned here but now they think it's the best thing since sliced bread.

(PS. my opinion is for my own 4WD it has to be manual but the trucks and command cars are a bit different and I think auto is the way to go for them)

JC · « **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2008, 09:35:46 AM »

I think auto has huge advantages in a urban area, ease off use, your concentration is 100% on the road, 2 hands on the wheel etc etc, not having driven a offroad truck with auto i cant comment to its good / bad points, so ill leave the criticism to those that have!

jaff · « **Reply #13 on:** October 31, 2008, 10:03:20 AM »

Quote from: JC on October 31, 2008, 09:35:46 AM

I think auto has huge advantages in a urban area, ease off use, your concentration is 100% on the road, 2 hands on the wheel etc etc, not having driven a offroad truck with auto i cant comment to its good / bad points, so ill leave the criticism to those that have!

JC thats not in the spirit of this site, you should know that!
Have a opinion, a strong one at that, get all ansy, it doesnt matter that you have no experience in what your posting about, helll its never stopped anyone else!

Pixie · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2008, 11:14:13 AM »

Quote from: Mike on October 30, 2008, 10:31:59 PM

I disagree Pixie.

Autos run on down hills, are unable to do stall recovery, will 'hunt for gears and do other innappropriate gear changes. After all one of the fundamental rules is to select the appropriate gear before tackling any obsticles

Manuals in 4x4 situations are much better.

Whilst I would like to say manual for urban built in environments as well, I cant disagree with the benifits of auto for this application.

yes, autos will run away down hill, if your not driving them correctly. unable to do a stall recovery? wouldn't you > handbrake, restart engine, shift into drive. release hand brake, idle away... must be pretty f$#@ing steep to be stalling an auto?!? that is how i do it in our auto GU Patrol anyway?(I still prefer to wheel in my zook sierra manual with reduction gears though...)

EDIT: Stupid laptop made sentences not make sense.

Mike · « **Reply #15 on:** October 31, 2008, 11:45:23 AM »

Stall recovery is not about the engine stalling due to the load induced by the hill its-self. Its about getting yourself secured in position and preparing from there.

You still have to give an auto some revs to get it moving (while risks breaking traction) or it will roll back

Hazmat206 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2008, 12:31:19 PM »

Autos are believed to have more torque and better top end speed.
But in the case of off road trucks, manual would be better for down gearing.
Manuals for off road trucks, auto for trucks less likely to go off road. Just like the MFS.

chook · « **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2008, 12:58:09 PM »

Truck auto's as was said previously are not like car auto's - try preselect which is what they are (which means the are supposed to be the best of both worlds). They are not a new idea the Allison automatics have been around for about 30 - 40 years atleast.
No they will not give you more top end, yes they will make "weird" gear changes in full auto mode & they will run away if not driven correctly.
They are heavier, cost more and a mechanical nightmare if broken. They can't "clutch start" nor can they be towed without disconnecting the drive shafts (mind you most manual trucks can't either due to oil pumps in gear boxes).
It's worth doing the experiment, however previous experiments by another organisation who uses 4x4 & 6x6 trucks off road steered clear of them for the above mentioned reasons. It's really horses for courses, but personally I prefer manuals, because when driven properly they can do more off road than the equivilant auto.
cheers

Alan J · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2008, 01:21:33 PM »

What Chook said.
With caveat that most brigade drivers I know around Adelaide are not regular
truck drivers. Some are very good, but most of us just can't spend enough
time behind the wheel. An auto for most of our driving would make life simpler.
After all, if MFS, whose drivers spend a LOT of time behind the wheel, feel it is
enough of a safety issue to insist on autos, why not CFS -apart from $$$...

An auto can be driven like a manual, which offers a bit of the best of both worlds.
Don't want it to shift up into 4th ? Lock it into 3rd. Or 2nd. Or 1st. Whatever.
Once towed almost 2 tonnes of unbraked trailer behind an auto Cortina over 3 mountain
ranges in Tassie doing this. [terror!!]

Isn't there some sort of torque lock available of these bigger autos?
Notice that buses shift down a gear if the driver wants engine braking.

Would like to try one of these auto trucks. Wonder if Echunga or Willunga(?) are
willing to share.

cheers

Zippy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2008, 01:38:10 PM »

Go for a ride on a bus from Crafers To Glen osmond, Probably the best example of automatic transmissions and engine retarding.

bittenyakka · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2008, 03:54:48 PM »

Do these autos actually lock into the gear? I know my mum's car if you put it into 3rd and then stop it will change down the first and not go back to 3rd? but it won;t change above 3rd.

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2008, 04:05:16 PM »

Like what has been mentioned by most.. Auto's for Urban applliances (dedicated pumpers etc), manual for Rural appliances..

Pixie · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2008, 09:18:21 PM »

yes, it is possible to manually lock up the torque converter on some autos, not too sure about the truck ones though.

Darren · « **Reply #23 on:** November 01, 2008, 11:34:57 AM »

Not trying to go to far off topic, but are brigades finding less and less people coming in with truck licenses. With the cost of a log book MR these says its becoming less attractive to do it just for CFS. Is it perhaps time CFS employed its own instructor to get people through licenses. Either that or do what I believe the CFA do and have a fire brigade only license ?

Just a thought.

SA Firey · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2008, 07:09:01 PM »

One problem, you cant PUSH START an AUTO when your battery goes flat boys

Stick with the manual 4WD appliances for offroad

Author Topic: Auto vs Manual Transmissions (Read 18584 times)

Darren

Darren