Author Topic: Paid jobs (Read 22159 times)

chook · « **Reply #25 on:** October 23, 2008, 12:06:59 PM »

Numbers in my experience its best not to work with people that you know "biblically" - can create all soughts of problems later on

Hows the Jerry bashing going?
tootle pip

Seagrave · « **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2008, 12:21:13 PM »

I can think of a few reasons people are leaving CFS.

1 - They get nowhere near as much $ as other fire services.
2 - Safecom seem to be taking alot of "power" away from cfs.
3 - The private sector like mining etc is offering alot better conditions.

Thats a few off the top of my head.

Zippy · « **Reply #27 on:** October 23, 2008, 12:23:04 PM »

Not enough is simply getting invested in CFS "management and support" Staff. Infrastructure/Logistics is one area that i hear is just so under-staffed its not funny.

misterteddy · « **Reply #28 on:** October 23, 2008, 02:50:58 PM »

Quote from: Seagrave on October 23, 2008, 12:21:13 PM

I can think of a few reasons people are leaving CFS.

1 - They get nowhere near as much $ as other fire services.
2 - Safecom seem to be taking alot of "power" away from cfs.
3 - The private sector like mining etc is offering alot better conditions.

Thats a few off the top of my head.

from discussions with a couple of those leaving ...it's more like always being asked (and expected) to do more with less. Spending excessive time away from home or being expected to work ridiculous hours (60+ a week in many cases)feature highly.

Certainly remuneration is an issue..... a Regional Planning Officer gets mid $55ish which is just rubbish for the responsibility and role. I have a secretary (well PA in modern speak) that gets almost as much. Add $20k to the RO role and u'll be getting close to market rate. Same same for the training officers. CFS trades on guys enjoying the lifestyle and being dedicated to the service as a trade for crap pay. To a point thats fair enough....but when u add up the amount of time they spend at work.....then it wears thin there as well.

Stand by for more, we may not have seen the last of them just yet

Zippy · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2008, 03:02:14 PM »

Quote

...it's more like always being asked (and expected) to do more with less. Spending excessive time away from home or being expected to work riciculous hours (60+ a week in many cases)feature highly.

Thats sounds 100% fact. When a single person has to work 60+ hours for a number of weeks a year, that sounds about time to hire a 2nd person to support that workload.

senti@nt · « **Reply #30 on:** October 23, 2008, 03:11:58 PM »

I know that jobs are advertised internally to the government employees first. If they are not filled within a 'certain' period of time they are then posted publicly. Obviously frustrating to the people left behind as they have to pick up the workload while the red tape increases the time for the job to be filled into the months. State Government policy rather than CFS.

You can tell on the home page quick search bit where it gives the options for searching 'I am a current South Australian Government employee' or 'I am not a current South Australian Government employee'

http://www.vacancies.sa.gov.au/asp/public/Home.aspx

Red Tape...she's a wonderful thing

rescue5271 · « **Reply #31 on:** October 24, 2008, 05:52:57 AM »

The other issue that has come out of all of this is that if staff wanted to take a year off with out pay they should be allowed to,rather than someone saying NO you can't..CfS need to take a look at how they treat staff and the hourse they work,money is the big problem as these people get paid crap.....I get paid more money than some of the staff but in saying that I also have to make the company I work for money...

It's a shame that some of those people that are or have left CFS will be missed and it will be very hard to replace them so close to the fire season...

firey666 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 24, 2008, 07:20:35 PM »

Whats that saying , Pay peanuts and you'll get monkeys.

There are a few exceptions to the rule. For those interested Stoney is working as a base camp manager for a security detail in BAGHDAD. he will be back in country now for a short home stay before returning.

Bill Your not even on my list at Region five.

Cameron Yelland · « **Reply #33 on:** October 24, 2008, 07:50:01 PM »

Quote from: firey666 on October 24, 2008, 07:20:35 PM

Whats that saying , Pay peanuts and you'll get monkeys.

Bill Your not even on my list at Region five.

rescue5271 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 25, 2008, 06:09:32 AM »

Pay them what other state's are paying their staff,Now don't we have a JOB share system here where by say staff from CFS/MFS can work in either service for a short time if there was staff shortage??? I think last night some CFS members where some what blowen away by what I said about staff who have left the service,so much so that they wanted to know why I was being so NICE...

I only eat beer Peanuts.........

chook · « **Reply #35 on:** October 26, 2008, 06:54:37 PM »

Bill, staff are after all public servants. Therefore if you want to pay them more then something else has to go. Comparing public sector to the private is BS, also staff get time in lue for the extra hours, private sector don't in most cases. And according to this forum staff don't know squat so why would anyone want to work for CFS?
think about that the nextime members of this forum attack the "bosses"
cheers

Firefrog · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2008, 08:41:11 PM »

The Ops planning jobs are advertised in saturdays paper.....

CFS Staff should not be public servants in the traditional sense. They should be employees of a fire service and have wage and conditions parity with other fire services. And be eligable for membership of the UFU.

We are talking about career fire fighting professionals expected to take senior roles within incident management and are grossly under paid for the priviledge.

I haven't checked but wonder what a similar role in the capital cities fire services would be paid. Regional staff absolutely get a very raw deal....IMO

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #37 on:** October 26, 2008, 09:02:31 PM »

Could they join the Union if they had enough members willing?

bittenyakka · « **Reply #38 on:** October 26, 2008, 09:26:33 PM »

Is it CFS or UFU that says they can't? considering CFA paid staff can?

6739264 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 26, 2008, 09:49:04 PM »

Its the UFU of Australia that says so, within the union rules. This is the same for many other states and firefighting related employment.

Under Section 6 "Eligibility"

6 - ELIGIBILITY

(e) (12) (3) Any person employed in New South Wales:
(a) in the Bush Fire Council of New South Wales; or
(b) as foreman, storeman, stores assistant and transport assistant by the Board
of Fire Commissioners of New South Wales
shall not be eligible for membership of the Union

(e) (12) (4) Any person employed in South Australia:
(a) by the Country Fire Services; or
(b) as technical officer, technical assistant, and caretaker by the South
Australian Metropolitan Fire Service
shall not be eligible for membership of the Union.

(e) (12) (5) Any person employed in Western Australia:
(a) by the Western Australian Bush Fires Board; or
(b) as storeman, store officer, general assistant and technical officer by the
Western Australian Fire Brigades Board
shall not be eligible for membership of the Union.

(e) (12) (6) Any person employed in Tasmania by the Tasmanian Fire Service other than a
person in the classification of Firefighter, Senior Firefighter, Serviceman, Control
Room Operator, Station Officer, Senior Station Officer, Superintendent, Regional
Chief Officer Urban, Regional Chief Officer Country, Deputy Regional Chief
Officer Urban, Deputy Regional Chief Officer Country, Chief Fire Prevention
Officer, Senior Operations Officer and Officers of the Field Division shall not be
eligible for membership of the Union.

(e) (12) (7) Any person employed in Queensland:
(a) in the Rural Fires Board; or
(b) as the Commissioner or the Deputy Commissioner of the Commission or
Authority which is responsible for fire services throughout the whole of
the State of Queensland; or
(c) who is appointed to an office or employed in a position which office or
position:
(i) is immediately below the rank of the persons referred to in clause
(b) of this provision (e) and also
(ii) is equivalent in rank to all other offices or positions referred to in
sub-clause (i) of this clause (c) of the proviso (e) and also
(iii) is responsible to one or other of the persons referred to in clause
(b) of this provision (e) for the management and/or the operations
of fire services throughout the whole of the State of Queensland.
shall not be eligible for membership of the Union.

Don't worry, its an ENTHRALLING read to see who is eligible and who isn't... Try it!

I believe that there should be a Union, or at the least an associated that has balls, to assist CFS volunteers AND paid staff with all issues of their employment. Operational and otherwise.

bittenyakka · « **Reply #40 on:** October 26, 2008, 10:09:29 PM »

Kinda straight to the point isn;t it.

6739264 · « **Reply #41 on:** October 26, 2008, 10:34:50 PM »

Don't forget though that Union membership costs money. I'm currently paying around $25 a pay to my union, I don't know how many people in the CFS would 'happily' pay that. Just look ath the number of people who jump behind the "I'm just a volunteer" excuse, can't be bothered with their fitness and can't be bothered taking on extra CFS courses. They certainly aren't going to want to pay MONEY to an organisation that they may never use.

And yet, oddly enough they will no doubt be the first to be up in arms and scream for the union to help...

Zippy · « **Reply #42 on:** October 26, 2008, 10:59:21 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2008, 10:34:50 PM

Don't forget though that Union membership costs money. I'm currently paying around $25 a pay to my union, I don't know how many people in the CFS would 'happily' pay that. Just look ath the number of people who jump behind the "I'm just a volunteer" excuse, can't be bothered with their fitness and can't be bothered taking on extra CFS courses. They certainly aren't going to want to pay MONEY to an organisation that they may never use.

And yet, oddly enough they will no doubt be the first to be up in arms and scream for the union to help...

ive heard people particularly "whine" about the CFB course...."Not another one!".

Its a very beneficial course to undertake for every BA operator no matter what. Its like the Burnover drill of rural firefighting....

jaff · « **Reply #43 on:** October 26, 2008, 11:26:14 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2008, 10:34:50 PM

Don't forget though that Union membership costs money. I'm currently paying around $25 a pay to my union, I don't know how many people in the CFS would 'happily' pay that. Just look ath the number of people who jump behind the "I'm just a volunteer" excuse, can't be bothered with their fitness and can't be bothered taking on extra CFS courses. They certainly aren't going to want to pay MONEY to an organisation that they may never use.

And yet, oddly enough they will no doubt be the first to be up in arms and scream for the union to help...

I'm just a volunteer, its not an excuse, its a fact!
I'm just a volunteer, but it costs me "considerably" more than $25.00 a week to be one!
I'm just a volunteer, but I keep my cardiovascular and strength training up, not for CFS but it certainly helps me out on the fireground!
I'm just a volunteer, but I undertake a shiteload of extra CFS courses!
I'm just a volunteer, though I do the role assigned to me as professionally as I can!
I'm just a volunteer, and I will reserve the right to refuse to do something that I feel maybe wrong or just too hazardous to myself or my crews and if that means that I have to play the "I'm just a volunteer card" to achieve that end, I will!

chook · « **Reply #44 on:** October 28, 2008, 06:27:11 AM »

Numbers, my guess is the rules for the UFU were written in the days when the unions were powerful. These days they would be happy for the extra membership fees.
Everyone needs to remember that the power the employee organisations comes from the ability to withdraw labour collectively - otherwise its a gang of whingers

Being a volunteer goes against this ethos - try getting your total membership to not answer calls for 48 hrs, my guess is it wouldn't happen.
Staff members i.e. middle management could never be a part of a union, it would be a conflict of interest - one day forcing through some thing onto volunteers that they won't like & the next out on a picket line complaining about "those filtered bosses"!
Think about this - as I said they get time in lue, they don't make life changing decisions every day, once you are in the public service you are in for life, they may have KPI's but are not "performance managed" or payed on how well they perform & how accountable are they really?
Finally as I heard a very wise man once say to me "toughen up princess" & "If you don't like it you can always see a lawyer" - this is what happens once you start climbing that slippery pole of promotion!
We have people leaving our company everyday, it doesn't mean the company sucks it's just guys making their own minds up on where to go next.
cheers

misterteddy · « **Reply #45 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:34:21 AM »

Quote from: chook on October 28, 2008, 06:27:11 AM

Think about this - as I said they get time in lue, they don't make life changing decisions every day, once you are in the public service you are in for life, they may have KPI's but are not "performance managed" or payed on how well they perform & how accountable are they really?
Finally as I heard a very wise man once say to me "toughen up princess" & "If you don't like it you can always see a lawyer" - this is what happens once you start climbing that slippery pole of promotion!
We have people leaving our company everyday, it doesn't mean the company sucks it's just guys making their own minds up on where to go next.
cheers

actually chook, most of the ROs get very little real return of TOIL. They might get a day or two here and there, but the ones I know never re-coup the actual amount of overtime they are expected to work. For my mind it's a very poor work practice thats sponsored by their managers (who in turn are expected to do the same....all the way upwards)

Sure people are able to make big boy and girl decisions and leave if they dont like it....and we then pay the price of a constantly revolving door of new people...and little corporate effectiveness moving forward...just always seeming to tread water or playing catchup. It would be nice to be ahead of the game every now and then in some of these areas - we've certainly invested enough in some of them over time - and arent seeing great returns for that investment.

chook · « **Reply #46 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:22:12 PM »

Yep I know of people who never catch up on leave (TOIL)in the emergency services & I know there are some very good operators - sadly though there are also some who are just marking time or worse shouldn't be in the positions at all.
Because of the egalitarian society we live in, any improvements to retain the good ones benefit all. It sucks, but that is the way it is.
And until the public service changes, it will always remain that way.
Thats why I would not become payed staff
Anyway I think I have said enough.
cheers

Seagrave · « **Reply #47 on:** October 28, 2008, 06:32:33 PM »

Im mates with several paid officers in the CFS....They work stupidly long hours, get paid peanuts, are always on-call and have a ridiculous work/life balance.

The CFS relies on staff being commited to the service. Remember most staff started as vollies and a majority still are vollies who have a distinct passion for the CFS and enjoy being employed by the service. It is only now in this time and age where the cost of living is increased and passion/love/commitment to the service plus the shite pay arent enough any more. Factor in the arse covering processes that lurk around every corner and the politics of SAFECOM/CFS/MFS and the private sector really doenst look that bad...

Zippy · « **Reply #48 on:** October 28, 2008, 06:45:40 PM »

Quote from: Seagrave on October 28, 2008, 06:32:33 PM

Im mates with several paid officers in the CFS....They work stupidly long hours, get paid peanuts, are always on-call and have a ridiculous work/life balance.

The CFS relies on staff being commited to the service. Remember most staff started as vollies and a majority still are vollies who have a distinct passion for the CFS and enjoy being employed by the service. It is only now in this time and age where the cost of living is increased and passion/love/commitment to the service plus the shite pay arent enough any more. Factor in the filtered covering processes that lurk around every corner and the politics of SAFECOM/CFS/MFS and the private sector really doenst look that bad...

thats pretty darn unfair on the individual.

Seagrave · « **Reply #49 on:** October 28, 2008, 06:57:08 PM »

Indeed.

Author Topic: Paid jobs (Read 22159 times)

misterteddy

rescue5271

rescue5271

misterteddy