MFS: Respond DOMESTIC FIRE

[6739264]

MFS: *CFSRES INC069 18/08/08 13:00,RESPOND DOMESTIC FIRE, 69 BAWLSOUT CT,STICKSVILLE MAP 69 D 2 TG169,, CFS100 CFS200

Oh no! Domestic fire!

You and your other local brigade are turned out. Your brigade is about 5 minutes from the location, 2nd brigade is about 10-15 minutes.

En Route, comms reports multiple calls.

You have a 34P, they have a 34. Its just after lunch, luckily you manage a crew of 5, the oncoming brigade have 4.

Your 34 has 4 BA and 3 operators. Oncoming: 2 sets and atleast 1, maybe 2 operators.

Upon arrival you are greeted with the attached picture. (Minus the fireman and the snow )

Neighbours inform you that they believe there was someone in the house earlier in the day, but they are unsure if they are still inside.

There are mains along the street, usually around 400kpa, the hydrant is around 100m away from this house.

You know the drill, Discuss:

(Thanks CapeCod FD for the pic)

[Zippy]

I would have a third brigade rolling...how far away are they?

Everybody on the 34P...youve got 3000L to use before ya even need to rely on the Hydrant,  Plenty for that fire.

1 person gets a hose reel, externally attacks the seat of the fire Until the BA crew is ready to go in.
1 person, in charge of isolating power, etc...creating a safeworking environment (other than the fire )
OIC will be the ECO...until the next appliance arrives.

Two Crew in BA, 38mm line (two lengths), then begin attacking the seat of the fire... and approach it as it becomes extinguished...the single other BA operator will then wait for the next appliance to arrive and supply another BA operator...to be BA Backup.

Ill let somebody else critise and continue on the decision making

[Zippy]

actually,  straight after extinguishing a lot of the visible active fire..i would crack the windows...as there would be a lot of residing steam being released into the house.  This could make conditions for a possible trapped occupant hazardous, ventilate it from the Rear.

[6739264]

Are you sinking a hydrant? Or just relying on the 3000L tank?

You're attacking the seat of the fire, you have spare crew, what about S&R?

Whats happening with fire spread through the house? Is it confined to the entrance?

[RescueHazmat]

*Looks for the identical thread from a year or so ago..*

[Pipster]

That was pretty much the scenario in this job in March 2004 at Roseworthy....

Pip

[Zippy]

You wouldnt want to go inside that house..that roof is very compromised...and anybody inside is already dead.

Nice knowing the neutral plane went to near Floor Level.

[Pipster]

Roof collapsed around 8  minutes after we discovered the fire..and only about 4 minutes before the first appliance arrived....

Luckily, we found the occupant had left some time before, and no one inside.....

Pip

[Gilly]

I'd request second alarm on route going by multiple calls and time of available resources.
Get one on a hose knocking down the fire, concentrating on the left of the entrance way (filtered the garage at this stage). As there isn't much of a breach of the main house area, i'd commit 2 in BA with a hose line to search and surpress, starting from the far left of the house. (With the hose guy outside donned but not started up).
The fourth guy would get a hydrant sunk, and then assist outside dude.

As the main house area isn't that well involved, you could do a fair bit by knocking down the fire in that entrance area. The front door seems to be still intact, and there is not a huge amount of roof and eaves smoke, so spreading the fire internally is not a huge concern for now. Wouldn't worry about ventilation yet, but if i had to, i'd probably push air in from the left side of the house to push the fire back towards the garage. (thats assuming he didn't have a few ferraris and bugatti veyrons in the shed. then its a different story all together...)

[bittenyakka]

We haven't had one of these on here for a while not have we.

The smoke coming from the eves on the A side at the B end makes this end look really unstable However if there is a entrance at that end it would definitely  be worth a look in and use for SAR work.

The fire is free venting in that section but i don't have any idea about below the ceiling on the B and D ends of the house.

so ...
Call 2nd alarm
OIC.. Does 360deg walk around finds power/gas and potential or current exposures. and ECO
IF there is an entrance point on the b side then

Driver pumps and  pulls 38 however long to that door in prep for BA team so the attack can be made from the end of the house that it appears any occupants will be at.
IF not
it goes to where the FF in shot is and attack will be made from the front (however this will risk pushing the fire into any unburnt areas of the structure)
3rd/4th BA

5th guy gets BA on as well and takes Irons if forcible entry is required.
Or lays 60M of 64 toward hydrant so the oncoming 34 can pump from the hydrant.
or if exposures are a concern takes sideline to protect them and may or may not use BA.
Or becomes vent man in radio contact with BA team

Things the 2nd due will do
BA team will try and ascertain what is in the garage and or attack fire from A side with 38
will plug into hydrant and finish supply lay
Take ECO from OIC

2nd alarm appliances
relieve and support crew as required

GDO - Gets lunch

Flaws in this plan
No Backup BA team as everyone is committed to an aggressive attack based on the fact that there is a high possibility of persons trapped.
CFS would really have know way of getting access to the garage so we can't fight the fire from that end.

[jaff]

Bittenyakka ,1 obvious flaw 

[OMGWTF]

Irons? A & B sides? 2nd due appliances.....



hmmmmm 

[bittenyakka]

The best hypotheticals come from yank sites and their lingo works.

[Cameron Yelland]

OK lets see how we go here.

Prior to Arrival.
   - Make sure SAAS, SAPOL & ETSA are notified.
   - Try and find out details of fire size etc (possible trigger point for 2nd alarm)

34P arrives. 
   - 2 BA start up 1 dons up for backup.
   - 1 person runs 2 lengths of 38 ready for internal attack and search, enter from left side of house if possible.  Or if rear entry is required, 3 lengths of 38.
   - 1 does a perimeter search and disconnects power, comes back and draws mud map. (OIC)
     - Firefighter that ran 38 sets pump up and supplys water to BA team (ECO)
   - donned up firefighter takes sideline and begins to extinguish external fire and cool roof top (fire looks to be well advanced in roof space).
   - Pumpie begins to run supply line to hydrant.

34 Arrives. (2 BA Ops)
   - Appliance is positioned next to hydrant and relays water to 34P.
   - Another 38mm hoseline ran into house with 2 BA for search.  Start at garage end if possible.
   - 4th Firefighter begins external attack on roof space with sideline.

If 2nd Alarm not called before appliances arrive then a trigger point would be in place for when the first crews enter the building and can relay info back about fire spread.  Possibly respond 3rd Appliance for assistance with overhaul depending on what crews find inside the building.

Estimated time for containment 10-15mins upon arrival.

If PPV fan available set that up after containment and knock a few windows out.  Open up garage doors if possible.

If 2nd Alarm is called.
    - First appliance focus on garage and provide additional member to BA rescue team.
    - 2nd appliance assist with fire in roof space.

SAFETY WARNING
    - Roof space around immediate fire area and outwards a little bit would be very unstable.


What do people think?

[6739264]

*Looks for the identical thread from a year or so ago..*

Sorry sweetheart, just trying to get people thinking about incidents. Maybe we can all learn something?

You wouldnt want to go inside that house..that roof is very compromised...and anybody inside is already dead.

Nice knowing the neutral plane went to near Floor Level.

Plenty of room for a marginal strategy. Real quick S&R of front rooms at the very least.

Irons? A & B sides? 2nd due appliances.....
hmmmmm 

A/B/C/D etc.. Works with sectorising structures no? Start at the front and work around in a clockwise direction.

The best hypotheticals come from yank sites and their lingo works.

Lets try to stay in the SACFS vernacular. The lingo may work, but is useless if people don't know what they mean. You might, but Billy down the road mightn't.

What do people think?

Not bad Capt.

What about giving ECO duties to the pump operator, freeing up another firie?

Do you need to take the second pump offline to relay pump? Would it be better used for fire attack initially? Seeing as though the inital appliance has already connected to the water supply, you would need to break down the line to connect the 34 into it, perhaps jepardising interior attack at a crucial time?

[Fox Mulder]

R E C E O
and thats all ive got to say on this matter

[Cameron Yelland]

What do people think?

Not bad Capt.

What about giving ECO duties to the pump operator, freeing up another firie?

Do you need to take the second pump offline to relay pump? Would it be better used for fire attack initially? Seeing as though the inital appliance has already connected to the water supply, you would need to break down the line to connect the 34 into it, perhaps jepardising interior attack at a crucial time?

I had given ECO duties to the pumpie  "Firefighter that ran 38 sets pump up and supplys water to BA team (ECO)"

Yeah i guess it would be a judgement call at the time i guess.  Mains pressure 400KPA (bit weak) and 100m from the first appliance, could do with some assistance maybe?  The P should have the pumping capacity to run 2 x 38mm and 2 sidelines but i guess using a 2nd pump incase of failure would be smarter?  As far as breaking the supply line - didnt really indicate it clearly but supply hadnt been hooked up as 2nd appliance arrived at the same time.

If using 2nd appliance for initial attack perhaps a third appliance would be needed for relay?  Bit of have a go and see and reasses.  But by the time the third appliance arrived fire would be contained theoretically.

[6739264]

R E C E O
and thats all ive got to say on this matter

Aww all that RECEO and no SV?

I had given ECO duties to the pumpie  "Firefighter that ran 38 sets pump up and supplys water to BA team (ECO)"

No worries, got confused about the number of blokes you were using

We'll assume the OIC is the bloke doing the walk around.

[Cameron Yelland]

I had given ECO duties to the pumpie  "Firefighter that ran 38 sets pump up and supplys water to BA team (ECO)"

No worries, got confused about the number of blokes you were using

We'll assume the OIC is the bloke doing the walk around.

Bah dont need one....lol.  (modifications made)

2 in BA
1 Pumpie
1 Sideline
1 OIC

[6739264]

Bah dont need one....lol.  (modifications made)

2 in BA
1 Pumpie
1 Sideline
1 OIC

Whoops, looks like you just wrote your self out of a job! No more yellow hats, just a white hat democratic union.

[Cameron Yelland]

Bah dont need one....lol.  (modifications made)

2 in BA
1 Pumpie
1 Sideline
1 OIC

Whoops, looks like you just wrote your self out of a job! No more yellow hats, just a white hat democratic union.

Oh well, i had a good run.   

[OMGWTF]

Irons? A & B sides? 2nd due appliances.....
hmmmmm 

A/B/C/D etc.. Works with sectorising structures no? Start at the front and work around in a clockwise direction.

Mmmm it may well be a good way of sectorising structures, and im well aware of what he was referring too. However this is definitely not a South Aussie way of speaking and probly not even aussie full stop [?]..

Just having a tease about all the 'yankeeisms' in there... few too many movies perhaps

[bittenyakka]

Well actauly i have heard of them on Yank websites but recently discovered them in Pual Grimwood's latest book so they are very international.

OMGWTF? can you suggest a better way using just as simple terms?

[6739264]

Mmmm it may well be a good way of sectorising structures, and im well aware of what he was referring too. However this is definitely not a South Aussie way of speaking and probly not even aussie full stop [?]..

Just having a tease about all the 'yankeeisms' in there... few too many movies perhaps

You're not reading enough material used by other Aussie services! They are certainly used in Oz, and I swear I had heard them on the fireground here...


_{Edited because it's late and I make not much of the sense}

[bittenyakka]

well it's a good book "Euro firefighter" and i enjoyed it and it makes you think about some things in a new light.