Looking to the future

[Cameron Yelland]

Gday,

What do you see happening in the CFS in the future as far as the structure goes?


What would people think if we were to remove groups from the CFS?  good idea or a bad idea?

Each brigade receives funding they require rather than groups dishing the money out to brigades.

[6739264]

Groups are valuable in terms of administration, but the response lines between groups need to go.

[Zippy]

Supposedly SACAD does that for us...except for Strike Teams   Personally wouldnt mind working in a strike team of 4 brigades that arent in my own group...just need a suitably nominated strike team leader.   wouldnt it be nice to form better relationships with out-of-group brigades

[SA Firey]

SACAD will choose the closest resource when it comes online,but brigades also need to understand that many hands make light work, so the quicker you respond resources the quicker you all go home.

[Zippy]

Damm Straight! definately! 

[6739264]

The CFS needs to reasses its core business and perhaps try to look at the service in thirds? Rural/Urban/Rescue?

This would allow brigades to have people within the CFS that understand their exact needs. No more of this square peg, round hole mentality.

[OMGWTF]

The CFS needs to reasses its core business and perhaps try to look at the service in thirds? Rural/Urban/Rescue?

This would allow brigades to have people within the CFS that understand their exact needs. No more of this square peg, round hole mentality.

Wasnt the CFS looking at introducing differant types [levels of training/accreditation] of firefighter? what ever happened to that??

[rescue5271]

SACAD is still about 3 years away if it gets of the ground....I think  sooner or later we will become one body called SAFES, We will still have our group system but i do see a need for brigade's to be able to select which supplier they wish to buy from and that way its a better system for all. I would like to see the introduction of pumpers fully not part time pumpers to some urban areas both in the city and country. I would like to see stations that have staff and volunteers its something we should try and CFS and MFS could have done it at SEAFORD but that is another story....We should be looking interstate when it comes to how they work with stations that have staff and volunteers and in many cases we should also look at BASO(brigade admin support officer) for our busy stations/ group's.....

[bittenyakka]

when did you hear 3 years bill?

[Alan J]

What would people think if we were to remove groups from the CFS?  good idea or a bad idea?
Each brigade receives funding they require rather than groups dishing the money out to brigades.

Bad idea.  SAFECOM can't manage the accounts for 40-something groups in a timely
fashion, let alone 430 individual brigades. As it stands, they are typically 2
months behind in account statements rendered to Groups.

Note that I have not mentioned accuracy of account manag...  Oh bother... I mentioned it.

[rescue5271]

There was a meeting down here during the week and those that where there( I was not) where informned its still 3 year's away fully and that is if it gets of the grounds as there are still issue's....

[Cameron Yelland]

There was a meeting down here during the week and those that where there( I was not) where informned its still 3 year's away fully and that is if it gets of the grounds as there are still issue's....

Not sure where you got that info bill?  I was at that meeting and no dates were mentioned as to the completion or start.   The only info we were given about some sort of start was the first contracts were going to be signed in September i believe.

According to the last budget their was a completion date of 2011.

[rescue5271]

Cam,my info came from two people who where there so if they got it wrong well that is their mistake.....so will wait and see when its up and running....They did tell those there why it take's SAAS so long to page a fire service and if that is correct then thats crap....

[Cameron Yelland]

Cam,my info came from two people who where there so if they got it wrong well that is their mistake.....so will wait and see when its up and running....They did tell those there why it take's SAAS so long to page a fire service and if that is correct then thats crap....

Basically they wont page anyone else until they have finished their questionaire they have to ask, which can take between 5 and 15 mins apparently.

So if you want a timely response call the police or fire first because there is less of a delay getting all services there instead of just one!

As far as the CAD info goes i might of been asleep but i dont remember hearing any timelines mentioned, unless they spoke to someone after the meeting.  One thing mentioned was the fact that SAAS & SAPOL? will come online with CAD first before the fire services are brought in.

Also there was something mentioned about an application for funding for MCT's for all CFS appliances.  Would be good if that gets funded but i wouldnt be holding my breath.

[Alan (Big Al)]

Our group were given the same speach from SAAS that calling others for RCR etc is only low priority and they get to it when higher priority calls are dealt with.

[chook]

Couple of interesting points
1) only talk of the fire services - again we might actually adopt the Victorian ?NSW system into the future (Volly fire service does not do rescue except for unique circumstances.
2)Had a talk to a full time SAAS guy (who is also one of our lot) & he has made numerous complaints to SAAS management & comms about not despatching or the incorrect despatching of resources - didn't get anywhere.
3) What you are talking about is already how SESSA operates - State HQ gives the budgets direct to units, however Regions are now trying to get control of that.
4) Not sure if SACAD will make that big a difference to funding, yes brigades that are close to each other but have a differnt level of callouts would be different but other brigades would still need maintenance funding.
5) MDT's? You guys really know how to spend money don't you? Surely they would only be required for semi metro brigades?
cheers

[Zippy]

i think the situation with MCT's would be only two:
1. brigades that respond to MFS area.
2. All brigades entirely.

I wouldnt say no to MCT's    Would make things run much more smoothly...smooth like a polished surf board...until the MCT fails on you 

[bittenyakka]

Yeah we have better things to spend our dough on.

I thought the NSW system was seen as quite over resourcing since there is a NSWFB and NSWRFS appliance in each station.
Personally I say that system would suck as vollies can do rescue, urban fire fighting, hazmat etc (but we do have issues about who does it)

Although i don't really like CFS chain of command for the admin side of the service I think it would probably cost more if we scrapped it and just wen to HQ.

Due to more and more crewing problems for outer metro fringe brigades i think it might be worth investing in training more brigades in things like. RCR and some form of slimmed down hazmat that puts less of a requirement on theses brigades to fully crew/run jobs.

[chook]

There is something weird happening at the top of the respective trees.
Here is the future as I see it-
SES will become more involved in disaster planning (high level)
SES Rural units will be merged with CFS rural units
SAMFS Retained stations will be converted to CFS stations in low population areas, with the bigger ones becoming part full time/part retained.
Urban fringe brigades will become SAMFS - Starting with the ones that have crewing issues now.
SES will become more specialised in Metro areas (USAR, Vertical) & other niche area (sea rescue).
If you think I'm being paranoid think about this:- no new funding for vehicles, no new staff positions, no increase in budget (in fact a decrease in real terms).
Now have a look at your respective services - any weird stuff happening?
Like SAMFS senior staff suddenly taking a big interest in a retained station that they were not interested in before?
Lots of dollars being plowed into CFS but for rural fire fighting only ($15 mil +)
And in the NSW & Vic systems the vollies do do rescue just they don't belong to the fire services
The future described above may not fully happen but there are some strange alliances being formed as I speak.
Personally I think it will be a real pity to effectively loose a service in most areas of the state, which is what will happen as the rural brigades are struggling to keep up with the current level of training let alone adding more!
Anyway I guess time will tell.
cheers

[Zippy]

SES will become more involved in disaster planning (high level)

Maybe this is where SES becomes known as the SA USAR squad?

SES Rural units will be merged with CFS rural units

Probably a good move,  utilising the people from both services in the same local area to do both jobs (if they wish to)

SAMFS Retained stations will be converted to CFS stations in low population areas, with the bigger ones becoming part full time/part retained.

The old mining belt/yorke peninsula in the mid north is a good example where this would happen.   

Murray Bridge would be the "next mt gambier". In terms of Full time weekday crewing of a single appliance.

Urban fringe brigades will become SAMFS - Starting with the ones that have crewing issues now.

I think Some, not all. Eg. Mt Barker, Seaford. Another station in the South between OHalloran, Christies and the hills would release the pressure down there.

The CFS definately needs to remain in the Urban Fringe as 4WD firefighting happens all too often even with structural incidents.  Theres a heck a lot of spots where 2WD MFS pumpers wont get to.

SES will become more specialised in Metro areas (USAR, Vertical) & other niche area (sea rescue).

I agree with that.

Lots of dollars being plowed into CFS but for rural fire fighting only

More structural fire training definately required.


Like your thinking Chook   

[SA Firey]

Not to mention the fire service being primary rescue statewide eventually.

[chook]

Not my thinking Zippy - its just starting to look that way!
Problem is with the smaller rural brigades taking on everything, the lack of raw numbers & the time commitments for the training required will kill brigades not improve them. Also will "short cuts" in training occur just so brigades can do the role? (As claimed by some with BA training).
And some people won't want to do the fire side of things - so you won't get them to join if BFF1 is the base requirement!
And other just don't want to be associated with CFS (sorry but some of us have seen how your system works & think its a crock), thats why they join us (sorry SES).
And finally it has not worked in WA or QLD why would it work here?
As I said there is weird stuff happening & if I was a member of CFS, I wouldn't be crowing as some real big compromises would be happening to make this come off.
cheers

[6739264]

MCT MCT MCT MCT MCT

MCT? MDT!

I thought the NSW system was seen as quite over resourcing since there is a NSWFB and NSWRFS appliance in each station.
Personally I say that system would suck as vollies can do rescue, urban fire fighting, hazmat etc (but we do have issues about who does it)

Due to more and more crewing problems for outer metro fringe brigades i think it might be worth investing in training more brigades in things like. RCR and some form of slimmed down hazmat that puts less of a requirement on theses brigades to fully crew/run jobs.

NSWRFS and NSWFB in the same station? I'd check your facts, as I think their union would explode if that happened. In many places they are both in the same town, but the division of labour works well.

It would be great to see other people in other brigades trained up in different disciplines, yet many of those crewing issues also stem from the fact that the specialist brigade CAN'T get members on courses. In my opinion, until you have the specialist brigades trained, you shouldn't be going elsewhere. That also creates the issue of skill maintenance, with people unable to keep their skills at the required level.

Don't get me started on CFSHQ allowing paid staff places on specialist courses, that their brigade is not trained in, for the purpose of "Personal Development". That is a crock of scheiße if ever there was one.

[Zippy]

MCT is two way text communication man!..MDT's are the old machines that are getting replaced by Motorola equipment.

Oh well...they are virtually the same thing...just a C or a D

Ive heard CFS may use the Telstra NextG network for the Mobile Communications Terminal's

[6739264]

MCT is two way text communication man!..MDT's are the old machines that are getting replaced by Motorola equipment.

Oh well...they are virtually the same thing...just a C or a D

Ive heard CFS may use the Telstra NextG network for the Mobile Communications Terminal's

Pfft, I'm like the QEII when it comes to these new fangled terms. She'll always be an MDT for me!

What do the new terminals bring to the table? Are they going for integrated GPS and auto routing to the Turnout address? Will they allow for extra information or note to be added to Alarm calls and certain other addresses?