Author Topic: Violence on scene  (Read 21314 times)

Offline Pipster

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,269
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2008, 11:38:38 PM »
Security at the Hospital then? More police in those areas?.. Not something Volunteer firefighters should be attendind. (In my opinion)..

Hospital security?  At Gumeracha hospital?  

Have you ever been there?   It is a quiet, low to medium care hospital.  Generally no Doctor there after hours, unless called.  No "Emergency" Department as such....although the local doctor can be called, and may attend, if required....

Gumeracha Police - meant to be a two person station - but for a number of reasons, only one currently there.  I can't see another one being placed there, due to large shortages within the LSA (eg currently 29 patrol vacancies in the LSA)

While most agree that CFS shouldn't be attending this type of call, we are going solely on what is listed on the pager message...without knowing the actual circumstances.

Would you know that the person being aggressive calms down the moment they see a CFS uniform?  Would you know that the nurse at the hospital, facing the aggressive patient, happens to be the wife of a CFS member, and called hubby to get some help, so hubby called the rest of the brigade for backup?

While it is simple to say "Don't go" how would you feel if it was your relative being threatened, and we all decided not to go?

And as for use excessive force - Chook, I'd suggest you check out the changes to self defence laws, and use of force.   Restraining a person who has been "going off" - perhaps in the sort of circumstances we are discussing, is not excessive force - even if all 6 of the crew were hanging on to the one individual, and keeping him/ her pinned to the floor.

And as for snake catching - there has already been at least one brigade who was regularly called to assist in removing snakes from houses in their township (especially since this town was experiencing a large increase in snake numbers at the time)

Pip

There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline jaff

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2008, 12:28:46 AM »
I personally would refuse to ride an appliance to a call that came through with only those details.

I personally would not be surprised if a unit/brigade would refuse to even respond. CFS dont have the training to deal with aggressive offenders, they dont have the experience nor the equipment. Questions would definitaley be asked if anything did happen to the crew.

Reading the posts on this forum so far the consensus would definiately be that CFS should not be asked to respond to these types of incidents. What next...snake catching?


Adelaide medic in reference to your comment about not having the equipment to deal with aggressive offenders,perhaps you havent been introduced to an axe :-D just kiddin! I reckon im more qualified than most to calm down angry ,aggresive murderous people, get to practice on the wife most weekends :evil:

Cheers Jaff
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline JC

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 417
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2008, 02:47:09 PM »
Just go in swinging hooligan tools, jemmy bars n roof hooks and i reckon you would be fine. :-D
Roxby Downs CFS
Lt 2
BHP ESO

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2008, 03:00:07 PM »
ive been to baxter detention centre for crowd control in C.F.S capacity. i know thats different but its another angle. as long as the person needing to be controlled wasnt armed why not go?? just my thoughts

Were you responded with CFS for the strict duty of crowd control, or were you responded for a fire related standby but somehow ended up in some form of crowd control role?

Offline Bagyassfirey

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2008, 05:45:05 PM »
i agree wit everythin pip said...and the plan at baxter witht the protesters was to use charged hose lines to hold them bak under instructions from sapol...

Offline boredmatrix

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2008, 10:09:47 PM »
i agree wit everythin pip said...and the plan at baxter witht the protesters was to use charged hose lines to hold them bak under instructions from sapol...

that's a great PR exercise.....

The feds asked SAMFS to do it - and they flatly refused!  I'm surprised CFS agreed to such a concept which could only serve to destroy community relations...

Offline chook

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2008, 11:00:23 PM »
Yep great PR thats why the ADF is not normally used in that way - checkout the history of Aid to Civil powers. Ok Pip some recent amendments have fixed the law side (maybe!) but would the service stand by its members if they were injured? As I said "Are they trained?" Answer is NO. What would the public perception be if it did all go pearshaped "Upset mentally ill person tackled by 6 fire fighters & is killed blah blah". I stand by what I said"Written direction/permission from the state duty officer". And our section of the act states quite clearly what we are not to be used for!
If the security of the hospital staff is a problem then the health department needs to sought that out - after all they have duty of care!
Participating in activities that we are not trained in and are not covered by our Act opens a can of worms. If we are going down this path then training must be provided & the correct protective equipment issued - that is the duty of care owed to us.
Anyway I think I have made my views very clear & I have said enough.
cheers
Ken
just another retard!

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2008, 07:43:22 AM »
I dont see a problem with the call for help from the hospital,how many times have CFS been called to assit SAAS only to arrive and find out SAAS are still sometime away... Also there could be members of the brigade who have done some training with the hospital staff and are well aware of the risk's,there are a number of brigade's that have a very close working reltaionship with their local SAAS/Police/Hospital and the council. As pip said there may have only been a solo officer in the area....People forget that outside of the CITY cfs is the next help around for the community and in many cases we have done te training to help .....

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2008, 12:36:19 PM »
6 firies with big nasty halligans and axes?

I'll be going for sure. Everyone needs some stress relief sometimes.

As long as you just yell "Comply" and "Stop Resisting" whilst beating the poor chap, you'll be fine. If all else fails, the good old "Stop hitting yourself!" is a good one too.
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline jaff

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2008, 12:41:42 PM »
Gee numbers and I thought that you were the  tree huggin,non violent,pacisfist type :-D
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline Red Message

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Facebook
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2008, 04:12:17 PM »
i agree wit everythin pip said...and the plan at baxter witht the protesters was to use charged hose lines to hold them bak under instructions from sapol...

Aren't we meant to protect life and property regardless of who and what it is? We are not an arm of the state for civil disturbance suppression.
Stirling CFS
NSWFB 001 Stn.
Firefighter

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2008, 05:36:42 PM »
i agree wit everythin pip said...and the plan at baxter witht the protesters was to use charged hose lines to hold them bak under instructions from sapol...

Aren't we meant to protect life and property regardless of who and what it is? We are not an arm of the state for civil disturbance suppression.

Agreed!

Offline Tonto Goldstein

  • Forum Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2009, 02:16:08 PM »
04:09:43   28-04-08   MFS: *CFSRES INC006 28/04/08 04:08,RESPOND To,GUMERACHA CFS,GUMERACHA MAP 0 0 0 TG098,ASSIT HOSPITAL STAFF URGENTLY WITH VIOLE,NT PATIENT,GUMA00

04:12:03   28-04-08   MFS: RE INC 006 PROCEDE WITH CAUTION, DETAILS AS PER ALERTS CALL. SAPOL AWARE NO ETA

hmmm, whats everyones thoughts? since we dont know the details might leave out presumptions.

Initial thought: gross misuse of resources. CFS have no training for this type of thing. Police should have been responded, NOT CFS.

Subsequent thought: "PROCEDE" is misspelt.


Offline bittenyakka

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,342
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2009, 06:39:28 PM »
Tonto, have you read this thread? read Pipsters post above.

Offline Tonto Goldstein

  • Forum Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Violence on scene
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2009, 08:44:56 AM »
Tonto, have you read this thread? read Pipsters post above.

1. Yes.
2. I did.

My thoughts were (and still are) my own.

Yours may differ. That's OK, you're allowed (first rule of Kibology).