CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)

[rescue5271]

May be its because you guys have put in your own money into it on top of what cfs are paying?? and that those at the top are keeping it a secret,as for the other points of naracoorte pumper and naracoorte rescue,well the pumper was ment to be a state proto type but it was the only one made,our rescue is that a stand alone rescue for a large area that we have to cover we dont have RCR back up 5 or 10 mins away try about 45 mins away..

[Cameron Yelland]

Get used to it.  The CFS never keep its vollies informed (well most of the time anyway).  If they did there probaly wouldnt be a need for this forum.   

[CFS_Firey]

Why would you actually want to know the details of every new truck in planning across the state anyway?  It would be a huge waste of resources if someone had to compile and distribute reports about whats happening with what truck every week.

[bittenyakka]

Well it woulds stop the rumor mill

If i remember rightly about 8 months ago there was half if not more of the CFS up in arms about not being consulted enough. Now although Burnside pumper isn't really a whole CFS problem.

I think the idea of frequent, official, easily accessible, eg a members section of the CFS website (which is currently crap), Newsletter would be really great and help in that consultation issue which Volunteers get so up in arms about when they aren't told. And by the time they complain it is often to late. 

[ltdan]

Ok here's the low down from the inside....
1) It will be a truck driven by an engine...
2) Likely to have a number of wheels, some that give the vehicle momentum and some that give it direction...
3) It will have some new technology, it's called a "pump" and designed to move liquid (generally known as H2O) from Point A to Point B...
4) It will have the ability to transfer the above "H2O" from point to point...
5) Likely to have space to the rear of the cabin and before the brake lights to be able to carry equipment to perform what it's required to do...
6) And latest rumour on the street is that it may be fitted with twin 1,000m 12mm "Gardina" technology first attack hose & the brigade is putting in extra funds to have snap lock fittings and branches that comply with water restriction regulations.... 

I don't know how one vehicle has caused so much opinion and stir and isn't yet even being built... How come say Naracoorte Pumper, Stirling Pumper, Nara Rescue, Ceduna 22 don't get as much recognition, arn't they all one offs?

Stefan

MY VIEWS ONLY!

Stefan, Well Done Mate.

May be its because you guys have put in your own money into it on top of what cfs are paying?? and that those at the top are keeping it a secret,as for the other points of naracoorte pumper and naracoorte rescue,well the pumper was ment to be a state proto type but it was the only one made,our rescue is that a stand alone rescue for a large area that we have to cover we dont have RCR back up 5 or 10 mins away try about 45 mins away..

Bill, I don't see the issue.  We keep going around and around in circles.

If Burnside have the money to invest in an appliance which may be used in the future for other stations good luck to them.  No need to knock them down. They are doing the best for their community who in result invested that money to the brigade.  Therefore they have a responsibility to provide an appliance which is 100% to their needs and their community.

Unfortunately we are not all that lucky.  But I congratulate Burnside by sticking to their guns in wanting an appliance which is suited to their area/risks they meet.

For Narracoorte Rescue, it was a prototype to deliver R & D and yes comments at V & E were made about this appliance as well, as you know Bill.  As you will recall some regions were in favour for the single use appliance and some regions were not.  The part I do not understand is why we would as a service go back 10 , 15 years and make single purpose appliances, eg Rescue appliances only.  Yes, I understand it is quicker to get to an incident and I know Narracoorte had something similar to this before.  But I thought we were moving ahead in building multi-purpose appliances.  Or maybe Bill the issue is giving stations to many specific tasks eg Narracoorte HAZMAT, CABA, RCR.  Maybe we should share the load, then we might not need to build individual appliances to suit individual needs (Single purpose rescue appliances).  We should be building in this case "pumpers" what can perform the task required with the special risks it manages eg Burnside, RCR & CABA on their pumper.  Maybe if Narracoorte did not manage HAZMAT we might of been able to fit their RCR on their pumper.

Please remember we should build appliances suited to the needs of the brigades.  Not to the need of the V & E committee.

I can appreciate how members feel about this issue, but a CFS members we should be supporting Burnside in what they are doing and what they are trying to achieve.  You don't know it might help the rest of the brigades in the state in future years.

[bittenyakka]

GOOD POST

But the question is now  "Ok we all support Burnside but why cant there be a public announcement of what's happening? why is it so Hush hush?" It is the same with many issues in the CFS.

I am not saying we should all get to comment on Burnside's new truck but even getting info to the Basic bottom of the chain such as who won the contract for the next 34ps I only found out on  oz fire and that isn't a secret as such.

Mabey i am not in the correct circles but You shouldn't need to be to find this stuff out.

[Gilly]

GOOD POST

But the question is now  "Ok we all support Burnside but why cant there be a public announcement of what's happening? why is it so Hush hush?" It is the same with many issues in the CFS.

I am not saying we should all get to comment on Burnside's new truck but even getting info to the Basic bottom of the chain such as who won the contract for the next 34ps I only found out on  oz fire and that isn't a secret as such.

Mabey i am not in the correct circles but You shouldn't need to be to find this stuff out.

Any information about tenders still in progress (ie. Burnside's truck) is confidential. This is due to the requirements of ACCC etc to maintain a competitive and fair selection environment. It may seem hush hush, but we actually don't know what build up we are getting yet. The cab chassis has been selected, but until the whole process is complete and metal has been cut, not much can be said.

I agree that information about this stuff (the bits we can know) should be available to those who care, and there is usually a mention of it in the Volunteer magazine about when new trucks are arriving and who is building them. Whether or not Volunteer is still going on is another issue.

[bittenyakka]

Thanks Gilly

[Zippy]

The Volunteer Mag seems to have been a point raised at recent CFSVA meetings...and from what ive heard the usual 4 per year is gonna be met this year or at least  08/09...once again if time is on the Safecom Media's side.

Good points raised Gilly ...have to stay legal about everything these days...altho when it comes to ACCC and TELSTRA...grrrr 

[rescue5271]

The flow of informatuion should be up and down and across all sections of CFS and not just in a small circal it does not matter to me what a brigade is getting but cfs needs to remember that we as the crew that mann these appliances need to know all that is good and bad about the new appliances. CFS needs to flow that information all the way out not just to one area and that is where it stops.May be CFS could do a NEWSLETTER but they already have FIREWIRE but that only goes to some members,I was asked last week why is it that we here in this region xyz are not allowed to flow on information from our regional meetings that may have information that others need...Not sure may be it would be nice to read what problems are going on in other areas when it comes to appliances,ohsw,training...rather than the CFS grape vine that does get it wrong sometimes...Flow of information now that would be the same as what we are ment to do as part of IMT......

[Cameron Yelland]

One example of bad communication with cfs/safecom.

We recently had a new station built (should be finished by the end of this week) Our brigade was kept in the dark pretty much the whole time.  We could not get access to the latest plans (the only plans the brigade got were basic outlines of the station), due dates, building updates, the commencement date was meant to have been something like may 07 but didnt start till jan 08 but not once was the brigade kept informed about why it hadnt commenced.  Now because of that the station has not been completed to what the brigade had decided on.


Granted CFS Firey the volunteers dont need to know about every little detail but there are things like the above that should be followed through.  Why arent the volunteers asked what they think should be included on fire trucks (i think there is a committee somewhere but buggered if anyone has evered passed that info to me).  There is probaly more there that i can talk about but i dont have the whole day.

One thing i would like to see happen is a forum like this but with CFS staff actually answering questions from the volunteers.  increased communication from both ends would create a much more efficient CFS.  Put it this way, if the CFS employed one person to commuicate with the volunteers e.g. a forum where all vollies questions could be answered.  The CFS would save money by reducing inefficiencies within the service by tapping into the knowledgeable brains of the volunteers.  Maybe my thinking is laughable but at least the ideas are out there.

[mattb]

If you look at the way the CFA communicate with it's members you will see that the CFS are a long way behind.

Apart from the members login area of the CFA website - https://cfaonline.cfa.vic.gov.au/mycfa/Show?pageId=colAboutSite

They also have an online news centre - http://cfafireflyer.blogspot.com/

As well as the monthly produced Fireman newspaper - http://www.thefireman.com.au/

There is also some excellent information and resources on the Volunteer Fire Brigades Victoria website - http://www.vfbv.com.au/index.php

The fireman magazine is delivered monthly to my letterbox for about $20 a year, there is always lots of info in it about the goings on at board level and within their Regions. In fact I think I know more about whats going on in the CFA than I do the CFS.

It also helps to have two strong unions supporting the volunteers over there, they are ones that you would go to with your 'Work Shirt' idea and they would push it though the chain of command on behalf of the volunteers.

[Darius]

The flow of informatuion should be up and down and across all sections of CFS and not just in a small circal it does not matter to me what a brigade is getting but cfs needs to remember that we as the crew that mann these appliances need to know all that is good and bad about the new appliances. CFS needs to flow that information all the way out not just to one area and that is where it stops.May be CFS could do a NEWSLETTER but they already have FIREWIRE but that only goes to some members,I was asked last week why is it that we here in this region xyz are not allowed to flow on information from our regional meetings that may have information that others need...Not sure may be it would be nice to read what problems are going on in other areas when it comes to appliances,ohsw,training...rather than the CFS grape vine that does get it wrong sometimes...Flow of information now that would be the same as what we are ment to do as part of IMT......

bill all of what you talk about (including "Firewire" and "What's On") is disseminated to RVMC members in region 1 so it is then up to group officers to pass on to their brigades.  So assuming the region 5 RVMC runs along similar lines you need to speak to your captain or group officer.  Don't know what you're talking about "not allowed to flow on information from our regional meetings" - must be another ones of those region 5 'things'.  In my group the RVMC minutes are distributed to captains/brigades.

[uniden]

One example of bad communication with cfs/safecom.
Granted CFS Firey the volunteers dont need to know about every little detail but there are things like the above that should be followed through.  Why arent the volunteers asked what they think should be included on fire trucks (i think there is a committee somewhere but buggered if anyone has evered passed that info to me).  There is probaly more there that i can talk about but i dont have the whole day.

Yes you do you are on holidays lol.

[rescue5271]

Cam,your post is yet another bad way in which CFS volunteers are kept in the dark and its about time that all information from all regional committees are able to be view by members via  a user name and ID on the home PC...A brigade should be involved in all aspect of what is going on when it come to a new station or appliance,lets face it we are the one's who will be working from the station or on the back of the appliance.....Sure there is information flow with in a region,but what if say region one wanted all there regional OHSW minutes sent to each regional committee to see if they are having the same problem should this be done?? I think it would be great to see what problems other region's are facing......

[bittenyakka]

The next question i want to ask in relation to this thread is what type of consultation do we really need?

Once a gain i refer to last July's coms debacle What should have happened in terms of consultation? Should every vollie be asked? or should all vollies be told changes are happening but groupies need to decide?
In my opinion it was an example of things being forced to move forward and it being don fast. As my brigade had already been running like that for ages.

Or should it be like Bill suggested a Passive system with an official CFS "forum" that people can poll post and discuss issues and the like which can be read by the people up top?

[Fox Mulder]

I will enlighten all of you to a fact. CFS pass on all important information, if you the fire fighter are not receiving thus information try looking into the chain of command one or two steps up the rung from you.. If you are not happy with the info flow to the vollies then it is prob time with some group elections coming up to perhaps change the peole that are not passing on the info.
And i say again i stop bucking the system it works quite well. It is more often than not the people who have the above mentiond positions not passing on the onfo

[pumprescue]

Information is power, didn't you know.

[bittenyakka]

I will enlighten all of you to a fact. CFS pass on all important information, if you the fire fighter are not receiving thus information try looking into the chain of command one or two steps up the rung from you.. If you are not happy with the info flow to the vollies then it is prob time with some group elections coming up to perhaps change the peole that are not passing on the info.

I am sure that has a lot to do with what i don;t like in CFS and a horizontal admin system would solve the problem it cant be that hard to just email stuff to the entire organization.

[SA Firey]

Talk to the horse and get it first hand not second-hand.

If you want to know something ring Region, go to the CFS website there is a wealth of information around if you know where to look

Google is my friend

[Fox Mulder]

if you want to know some thing ask your captain and follow the chain of command that is what it is there for, the system wont work properly if you dont follow the chain of command. And as usual the people that want to email the cheif cause of some bull scheiße issue in their brigade or group are the biggest problem. USe the chain and see how well it acctually works

[Zippy]

NOMINATION FOR COMPARTMENT FIRE FIGHTING COURSE THIS WEEKEND 18TH, 19TH, 20TH JULY MUST CALL TRAINING OFFICER BEFORE 15.30 CFS Aldgate Info

So theres positions for CFB this weekend ey?   only knew it because of the paging feed 

[bittenyakka]

if you want to know some thing ask your captain and follow the chain of command that is what it is there for, the system wont work properly if you dont follow the chain of command. And as usual the people that want to email the cheif cause of some bull filtered issue in their brigade or group are the biggest problem. USe the chain and see how well it acctually works

Yeah i under stand the chain of command works for changing stuff and is needed to supply some form of vetting to all ideas put forward by brigades. But it is often a bit slow.

But for general facts like "who won the latest tender for trucks" or the minutes of various meetings. these should be put on something like a website which whoever wants to can access. Soely because it would probably remove alot of work people do at region in answering these questions. Get rid of many rumors as we would all have the same info.

And if the chain of command is so brilliant how come it had taken about a year to fix the 34ps and since that never really got on the media i will assume it was done through proper channels?

 

[Zippy]

And if the chain of command is so brilliant how come it had taken about a year to fix the 34ps and since that never really got on the media i will assume it was done through proper channels?

From what ive heard the Proper Channels were used, entirely.    Getting it done properly woulda been "time" taken.  Also seeing as it was a Volunteer Effort to address the issue with these appliances...volunteers only have so much time outside of work, family, etc and operational CFS itself to use.

[Firefrog]

if you want to know some thing ask your captain and follow the chain of command that is what it is there for, the system wont work properly if you dont follow the chain of command. And as usual the people that want to email the cheif cause of some bull filtered issue in their brigade or group are the biggest problem. USe the chain and see how well it acctually works

Chain of Command is for running incidents! Not running services. The sooner people realise that staff are there to serve the volunteer the better!

People should feel empowered to seek advice and information from a range of levels within the system. That maybe a senior firey or a captain or a staff member. Why is it so hard for CFS to communicate effectively?

These days everyone has an email address or is mates with someone who does - a novel idea send information direct to people. Surely information should not be locked in a command structure that is designed for incidents! People abuse information and use it as power or currency to be traded around. The way I see it take information flow out of the chain of command and direct to the consumer is both more efficient and a healthy way to go!

End Rant.....