Land Search MORIALTA PARK

[chook]

Yep seemed pretty balanced to me - it was obviously the end of the search, explains why there was such a large gang of people around (100 searchers wow!)
Nice one mate
cheers

[Stefan KIRKMOE]

pardon my ignorance toward land search jobs etc... but given the initial call was just before 3, Norwood patrols had a forward command established on scene shortly after 3, STAR Group & helicopter around 4pm....

Is it really necessary for an SES unit to respond under lights and sirens to this job after 8pm?

[OldOne]

pardon my ignorance toward land search jobs etc... but given the initial call was just before 3, Norwood patrols had a forward command established on scene shortly after 3, STAR Group & helicopter around 4pm....

Is it really necessary for an SES unit to respond under lights and sirens to this job after 8pm?

Good question in hindsight,  but as each SES unit was contacted individually to responded they may not know the history of the event and maybe have been told to respond P1 or P2 with no other details except location to report to. also first crews rolled about 1630 hours.

Arno.

[6739264]

Is it really necessary for an SES unit to respond under lights and sirens to this job after 8pm?

Of course. Where else would they get their jollies for the week?

[chook]

You are starting to turn rather nasty numbers - Is something wrong?
And in all honesty you blokes do they same thing - lights/ sirens in a Hino that can't get over 80!
Fair dinkum if I didn't know better I would have sworn some one in orange stole your big red truck when you were are kid! As I say to my guys "when you are perfect criticise others"
As I said in the other post "We are here to stay - get used to it!"
cheers

[Stefan KIRKMOE]

You may be here to stay so we will deal with it.... But responding blues and two's when not required is only increasing the risk not only to the crew but also the public thus being around to stay is greatly reduced when you crash responding P1 and it's not required.... not even police went lights and sirens...

and AGAIN....

today to a building impact, SES already had 2 units on scene, MFS were still on scene (and had been for 45 minutes), CFS had been and gone home... The car wasn't going anywhere, ambo's had dealt with any injuries, SAPOL on scene.... NO MORE A LIFE THREAT.... yet an SES commodore is still going lights/sirens through a red light to the same job now 45 minutes old... Is this really required???

What's it going to take to risk manage when lights / sirens are required, or is it going to be a human life to turn around and say WHOOPS!

[chook]

Mate I don't have any of the facts, if it is a marked Commodore it is filtered payed staff. Did you get the number? Have you informed your senior officer of the incident? Have you submitted a grievance report?
Do you have all of the facts?
If you have good on you - let the system deal with it!
If not do us a favour - do the paperwork then the facts will be gathered & if what you say is true then this individual will be dealt with!
Before this alledged tosser does kill someone!
Otherwise this is just another example of interservice bitchin
Have a quiet day!

[Stefan KIRKMOE]

not inerservice bitchin because i know we all do it sometimes within our services, how often do CFS "Duty Officers" respond P1 to inidents they arn't required at or just to make them "feel important".

But this isn't the first time this driver has done something like this... I've seen him driving P1 up the parade norwood again lights & sirens, hamming down with rain, midday so significant foot traffic, massive risk yet still doing it to none other than... yes a tree down! (on private property no life risk, it's already fallen!)

Can I ask though what training SES receive at a volly & staff level to drive & under what circumstance a P1 is authorised?

[chook]

Its covered under SOP's, we definitely cover it during the RCR course & from memory its covered in General Rescue.Don't know about payed staff however for every task type there is an instruction which covers level of response, priority etc.
If this individual has been seen by your good self doing this before, have you reported it? Because if what you say is true, then this person needs to be dealt with. Sadly I'm not in the metro area and am not part of the association (& not gifted with ESP ) I can't do sweet fa about it!
So my question still stands what have you done? As I said it needs to be addressed.
I'm sorry about accusing you of being one of the SES bashers! (Its been a bad week as far as Emergency Services go )
cheers

[6739264]

Chooky, I was having a dig at the crew that decided to go P1 when it was not necessary, as I would to any SACFS, SAMFS or other emergency service crew. Its nothing personal, and I know that you guys are here to stay - a sad fact in many Urban areas

You're the one who seems to have touchy issues this week. Relax mate, stop taking the discussions here to heart. There are morons in all services and I am happy to criticize them, regardless of uniform colour.

[RescueHazmat]

Its covered under SOP's, we definitely cover it during the RCR course & from memory its covered in General Rescue.Don't know about payed staff however for every task type there is an instruction which covers level of response, priority etc.
If this individual has been seen by your good self doing this before, have you reported it? Because if what you say is true, then this person needs to be dealt with. Sadly I'm not in the metro area and am not part of the association (& not gifted with ESP ) I can't do sweet fa about it!
So my question still stands what have you done? As I said it needs to be addressed.
I'm sorry about accusing you of being one of the SES bashers! (Its been a bad week as far as Emergency Services go )
cheers

I think you'll find Mr.K is in a position where something could definately be done about it!..

[boredmatrix]

perhaps those who don't do much emergency responding feel they need the practice?! 

lets be serious - after 8 years of being a paramedic - belting down a road at speed feeling tough because you're in a car with a lightbar and siren doesn't make you a hero! 

At the end of the day, I want to get home to my wife and kids, and I certainly don't want to be standing in front of the coroner telling them why I was driving like a D I C K when I hit nanna jones belting around a blind corner because I thought I was on a racetrack!

SAAS's current system of telephone triage has a fall back mechanism that means that if there is for any reason the calltaker is "unable to assess" - then it defaults to Category 2.  99% of these cases are because the caller speaks little english, was drunk and unable to talk properly, accidentally set off their medical alarm as they walked out the door, rang 000 by accident after they sat on their home phone or the 2 yr old dialled it..... and a thousand variants on this! 

add to this the people who've worked out that if they say the magic words- they get an ambulance on a cat 2 as well...and over 50% of our work is BS lights and sirens jobs!

my point?  Lights and sirens isn't fun......it's a bit of an annoyance to be honest.......not to mention risky!

  life is far too valuable to kill or injure someone....or yourself for the sake of a fallen tree or a car which has gone into a building an hour ago...

peace out!

[mack]

Can I ask though what training SES receive at a volly & staff level to drive & under what circumstance a P1 is authorised?

volly - same as CFS i vollies i believe

staff - same as ambos i believe...

[MATTY]

Stefan KIRKMOE

The  people in the "Big Red" fire trucks requested the P1 for SES after they had arrived........ as the building was about to collapse ...apparently.......... but  apparently  not once SES arrived..  Go Figure.....

You  will also find that it  was a direction from the Regional SES Commander to  respond P1 to the Search, who was on-site with the police forward commander........

[bajdas]

At this time I can think of four SES paid staff who like the lights/siren switch in the metro area. I can also think of three plus metro volunteer Units who are slowly changing, but still like lights/sirens often.

Not sure how to deal with the issue when the volunteer who comments is accused of criticising an officer and then some volunteers follow the example given.

Still do not understand why so many paid staff in all services have lights/sirens on their cars when they are logistics/training/operations/group/regional/media/etc staff...where is the life threat any of them respond to ??

Also, why do they all need a GRN radio ? Majority can use the work paid for mobile telephone for their communication needs.

Give them magnetic base red/blue lights for fire ground use but save the money for better buildings.

....I feel better now that is off my chest....   

[jaff]

At this time I can think of four SES paid staff who like the lights/siren switch in the metro area. I can also think of three plus metro volunteer Units who are slowly changing, but still like lights/sirens often.

Not sure how to deal with the issue when the volunteer who comments is accused of criticising an officer and then some volunteers follow the example given.

Still do not understand why so many paid staff in all services have lights/sirens on their cars when they are logistics/training/operations/group/regional/media/etc staff...where is the life threat any of them respond to ??

Also, why do they all need a GRN radio ? Majority can use the work paid for mobile telephone for their communication needs.

Give them magnetic base red/blue lights for fire ground use but save the money for better buildings.

....I feel better now that is off my chest....   


Andrew , agree that too much non essential P1 driving is done, for a multitude of reasons.
Disagree with the suggestion that the paid staff cars dont need lights, sirens and GRN radios. If we went down that road ,the cars would essentialy be civilian cars and then not suitable for any of the taskings that they are asked to do.
The paid staff in CFS have their roles changed as incidents arise ,they maybe working on a state based training module in the morning and by the afternoon be kilometers away helping manage a going incident in a lot of different capacities, they like us on the way to the incident would want to be kept up to date with current situations.
It may seem like a waste of money having all these vehicles equipped with the P1 kit, but these vehicles like our appliances are more than one dimensional and will always need the capacity to respond to any given task.
Sill we could always get rid of all the staff cars and make them use taxis, complete with non english speaking lost driver .

Cheers Jaff

[Dave O]

pardon my ignorance toward land search jobs etc... but given the initial call was just before 3, Norwood patrols had a forward command established on scene shortly after 3, STAR Group & helicopter around 4pm....

Is it really necessary for an SES unit to respond under lights and sirens to this job after 8pm?

The reason for the P1 response to this task is that the SES were called with a couple of hours of daylight left..
STAR co-ordinators requested that incoming crews came P1 as to get them searching before loss of light.
Our call came in at 1900, so by the time crews got organised and on the road it was 1915ish if not later, arrival of 1940ish, so an hour of light to do some good work in.
 
As for the building impact job, no idea why P1 45 mins later was necessary...

Probably shouldve ready MATTY's reply before posting, nothing like some good old redundancy

[boredmatrix]

i'm still confused as to how a P1 response will aid in getting crews out quicker...especially in this situation. 

Studies (sorry - don't have any online references for this!) conducted in the last 5 years have shown that on an average 8 minute emergency response time - other vehicles who respond without P1 arrive not less that 2 minutes later on average.  Granted - there will be times such as peak hour (or peak 15 mins for adelaide) when it makes a difference, but in the bigger scheme of things, is putting staff at risk in order to save 2-5 mins in these situations really worth it? 

Let's couple that with the Govt's planned changes to WorkCover, and ask ourselves if it's really worth it?

[Dave O]

Agreed
We do have to ask if its worth it
As this page will well make u ask..

18:26:50 08-03-08 MFS: *CFSRES INC076 08/03/08 18:26,RESPOND Rescue Animal,24 WEHL ST N,MT GAMBIER MAP 0 0 0 TG195,DOG STUCK IN FENCE - PRIORITY 1,MTG701 MFS Mt Gambier Response

Curious, anyone know why P1?