Paid CFS staff as Officers in Brigades

[fireblade]

I've heard a bit of banter around the place in regards to CFS paid staff being Lieutenants and Seniors in Brigades and some Regional Commanders not being keen on the idea, to the point they wish to stop it!

The negatives I’ve heard are some people are not keen on the idea as they believe that they hinder the progress of the brigade as they are tied up with the political red tape of being paid staff.

The positives are most of them use to be a volunteer and still are, the operational experience and knowledge plus the management skills they have gained from being paid staff.

What’s everybody else’s thoughts?

[rescue5271]

The paid staff in our brigade who where brigade officers before becoming staff had to step down as brigade officers and this came from CFS and not the Brigade....This is my view only but once a member takes up a paid staff job in CFS then they should step down as a officer and make way for new members...Paid staff are very busy people and lets face it once members become staff you don't see them much as they are always away doing a course or are away doing work in other regions. Brigade's who have staff should also respect that when a staff member does show up for training or call outs that we should treat them like a volunteer and not staff(works both ways)... If a staff member was to remain as a brigade officer then they are leaving themself wide open for showing favoritism to their brigade..I am not saying this has happened all I am saying its better to cover your rear...There are a number of briagde's around the state that still have staff as officers so not sure why state has said one thing down here but yet staff still hold officers positions in brigades in other region's??? There is also the issue of training and if/when they do or dont show up...

[Alan J]

The positives are most of them use to be a volunteer and still are, the operational experience and knowledge plus the management skills they have gained from being paid staff.

What’s everybody else’s thoughts?

One of the things that made SOCC great was that many were/are Brigade Lieutenants, and from a variety of different types of brigade. They really understood the pressures, issues & requirements of the troops on the ground.

Down-side is that in any conflict of demand as to CFS staff member's paid role vs their volunteer role, their employment takes precedence.  The brigade will be short of an officer.  I guess that's a bigger issue for some brigades than it is for others.

I think it is good for CFS, or more particularly, SAFECom staff to be active brigade/unit volunteers, if only to be reminded that SAFECom exists to support fire/emergency volunteers, rather than volunteers existing to justify a government department.

[wombat34]

As far as I know the only restriction on CFS Staff is that they cannot hold the position of  Captain or above, in their volunteer role. I recently became CFS Staff and there has been no issue that I hold the position on 1st Lieutenant in my brigade. As for not being around, I still have to make sure I only work 10 in 14 days, so even though I might go off around the state for work I'm still available for call outs a minimum of 4 days a fortnight plus mornings if I'm working afternoon shift or evenings for day shift. I cannot see why I should have to be demoted back to being a firefighter just because I am also CFS staff, if my peers in my brigade believe me to be the right person to be in the position does it really matter what I do as a profession?

[jaff]

There goes our grand plans wombat

[rescue5271]

mmmm Well if that is the case why where our brigade members who are paid staff informned by H/Q that they have to stand down as a brigade officer's?? Sounds like one rule for one region and not the rest of the region's in CFS......

[wombat34]

Don't know why they were told that. There were 4 new staff put on in Oct 07 (myself included) 3 of us are Lt's and one was a captain. Only the guy who was a captain had to step down, the rest of were told that our positions were fine.

[PJ]

Having been in that position as (past)staff member I personally thought it was a load of bovine faeces. I was required to step down & someone else take my role. The problem was that everyone asked my opinion or looked for my leadership & direction during jobs including the incoming officer( remembering I was a firefighter) so i might as well stayed there in the position.
I also managed to attend a fair amount of calls and training while staff.

[fireblade]

Well it's seems more people are for paid staff holding positions in brigades than not so far.

I have also noticed a lot of you that have replied it's not an issue are paid staff.

Have you had any negative feedback from brigade members or felt like your paid position could or had the potential of a conflict of interest?
 

[Darius]

mmmm Well if that is the case why where our brigade members who are paid staff informned by H/Q that they have to stand down as a brigade officer's?? Sounds like one rule for one region and not the rest of the region's in CFS......

you're talking about region 5 Bill, you should know everything is different down there.

[chook]

We currently have someone who is an officer in a unit (not mine)& paid staff.
Didn't think it would be a problem and most of the time still isn't, however sometimes I know I'm more "guarded" when I speak around him - not sure if it is a cultural thing or what.
Anyway he is doing a great job in both positions & at the end of the day its up to him & his unit to decide how they are going to deal with it in the future.
Just my thoughts cheers

[gj41]

Who would want them?

[jaff]

Who would want them?

In my region(1)and group we have a lot of paid staff , that are also brigade members, who train and attend incidents.
For the most part they started out as vols and their enthusiasm for the CFS led them to gain employment in the organisation , some of them now find that their paid job is just that, but their enthusiasm still remains at the voluntary level.
I find that my working relationship with these paid staff is enhanced by my voluntary interaction with them , though as chook has said, I also am perhaps a little guarded when discussing things that might be sailing close to the boundaries for my protection and so as not to put them in a uncomfortable situation.
As with any organisation the Kearney 6% rule will apply , though some others and I think Bob needs to reassess, as the true figure is probably closer to 15%, some names spring to mind immediately . If you have a paid staff that you regularly interact with either at a in brigade level or at a regional level, I think that you will find the benefits far outway the disadvantages, So who would want them?,      Yeh i'll have a few!

Cheers Jaff

[bajdas]

We currently have someone who is an officer in a unit (not mine)& paid staff.
Didn't think it would be a problem and most of the time still isn't, however sometimes I know I'm more "guarded" when I speak around him - not sure if it is a cultural thing or what.
Anyway he is doing a great job in both positions & at the end of the day its up to him & his unit to decide how they are going to deal with it in the future.
Just my thoughts cheers

As long as that person who is with the Unit is not part of the capital purchasing decision makers (whihc this person is not). Then a conflict of interest problem exists if the Unit gets more toys than the others.

Interestingly, about 12 months ago a SES volunteer stated he did not think one paid staff understood a SES volunteer situation properly, when compared to a paid staff person who volunteered with a Unit. This was stated because the person volunteered with another organisation.

I stated that the SES Volunteer 'had rocks in his head'.

But does a paid staff member who volunteers in the same organisation maintain a more realistic impression on what volunteers go through ?

[chook]

The person I'm talking about Andrew is part of the regional training staff.
And can influence what goes on in the region - as he has regular contact with state & regional HQ. Far more than the vollies do!
And also made noise about others in other regions being both
Now as the payed job is part time & as you said his unit is not shown favours then fine. However when we have UM meetings they are for UM's only anyone else is by invitation - therefore those meetings are now a bit different
As I said it depends on the individual & the brigade/unit - I'm sure you know of at least one unit who benefits from having paid staff as vollies
And on that note cheers for now