GRN RADIO;S

[rescue5271]

as most of you would be well aware by now CFS no longer has GRN radio's that where set up for training new members as part of BFF1. these radios have now been removed from training and are now being used in new appliances that are coming online. So does this mean that CFS no longer has spare radios at all. So what is going to replace the GRN when it does need replacing?

[Robert-Robert34]

http://users.chariot.net.au/~mattb/scan/latest.htm according to the info on this link it looks like they have ran out of spare GRN radios 

[backburn]

So why did we get a blasting this week about needing more members to do GRN training as it is not included in Level 1?
We have had 8 members do level 1 in the past 10 months and Region is complaining they have not done the required GRN course as in level 1 they say is only communication not GRN? What are going to do to keep them happy?

[Zippy]

When i did BFF1 at start of the year, GRN radio operation was a part of it.  There are two booklets covering them (additional to the folder), and we were trained in the operation of them.  and anyway..its a 30min process to learn how to use them hehe.

It is a part of the course, so it should be covered. if not, why not.

[Darius]

you could always ask your G.O. or regional office...
FYI there are still GRN training sets, my group borrowed 2 the week before last.

[chook]

Used the 5000 model in NSW recently, cool bit of gear the way they had them set up. When we have a radio go down, we don't get a replacement - at one stage we had no hand helds at all. Hopefully new radios won't be to far away (in government terms anyway ). And when we do hopefully they will be like NSW, able to talk to any service with the push off a button. The current setup is very poor, we need the ability to talk to each other without requesting a multi agency. cheers

[Robert-Robert34]

Used the 5000 model in NSW recently, cool bit of gear the way they had them set up. When we have a radio go down, we don't get a replacement - at one stage we had no hand helds at all. Hopefully new radios won't be to far away (in government terms anyway ). And when we do hopefully they will be like NSW, able to talk to any service with the push off a button. The current setup is very poor, we need the ability to talk to each other without requesting a multi agency. cheers

Does that include the ability to talk to McDonalds or Kentucky Fried Chicken drive thrus so we can order food

Sorry i couldnt resist having a laugh 

[chook]

No worries you could only but hope - Pizza Haven too

[Robert-Robert34]

What talkgroups will they be on 

[chook]

Just make it simple & call it FOOD!

[ltdan]

When i did BFF1 at start of the year, GRN radio operation was a part of it.  There are two booklets covering them (additional to the folder), and we were trained in the operation of them.  and anyway..its a 30min process to learn how to use them hehe.

It is a part of the course, so it should be covered. if not, why not.

GRN TRAINING IS NOT PART OF THE BFF1.  Some brigades/groups have been doing it as part of the BFF1 training programme.  Which means it is an adition to the programme.  I personally do not see how you could teach GRN Training correctly in 30 mins as their are 3 different modules to do: 1. SAGRN Network which includes a 10 minute video with Keith Conlon. 2. SAGRN Mobile radio. 3. SAGRN Portable radio.  Just doing these sections correctly with the CFS specifics of the radio systems would at least make the training go for a minimum of 60 minutes at least.  (MAYBE THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH THE SAGRN NETWORK.  WHEN YOU GUYS ARE SAYING IT IS THE SYSTEM WHEN IN FACT IT IS PROBABLY OPERATOR ERROR DUE TO THE LACK OF CORRECT TRAINING BEING PERFORMED IN THE TRAINING WHICH IS SUPPOSE TO BE DELIVERED.)

I heard the same thing today that you are unable to use the training kits as well due to the training units are now being placed into fire appliances.  But think about it you do not need a training kit to deliver the training.  I think that you all have the CFS specific GRN radios in your station and appliances so you can use them.  Might be a bit harder to do but is quite achievable.  As a SAGRN instructor I have been delivering this way of training for the last 12 months from appliances and stations and it seems to work better as crew members can actually relate to the radio units which are in your station and appliances.  Instead of having training kits which have handpieces with numeric keypad functions which you will never use on a fire appliance.

[chook]

Yep your right, our basic comms course goes for about a day. We have some suit case radios from state when they run a course. But we still use the units radios when they are not broken that is . We would not run it as part of a basic rescue course - too much other stuff. cheers

[Zippy]

ok thanks for the greater understanding LTdan, taken on board

my opinion is that since GRN radios are a commonly used item by the brigades...every member will have to use a GRN radio eventually...so it being common training i.e BFF1 would be taught early on.   

In terms of the 'system of communication' in the services. Something that i think is missing in the system is the whole Multiagency communications training,  especially a more solid way for SES to talk to CFS.   

Ideally SES brigades should be able to switch to all the CFS channels, hence on Bravo 1 they get sent to.. GRN-CFS136 through a Mt Lofty group station.  Just like Mets can move to 124 and be under the control of CFS groups till released back to 150.

Interoperability is the word im thinking of.

[rescue5271]

May be CFS should look at removing GRN radio's from brigade stations and that way all comms should go via the group base this in itself would free up GRN radios...Our group as does all of region 5 do GRN training as part of BFF1 and it works well.The training sets are good to use as if you are doing GRN training at a remote spot or in a area where there is only one or two grns they are there to cover teh short fall...

It is not only CFS that are having the shortfalls in teh GRN radios,with radio and pager break downs on the rise CFS will have to look at a better replacement for these.

[Zippy]

May be CFS should look at removing GRN radio's from brigade stations and that way all comms should go via the group base this in itself would free up GRN radios.

aint that simple,  would be great...but that means youd be calling two brigades to a cat up tree    what im getting at is the severity of the job warranting group base to take over comms...while the primary incident brigade station might already have someone prepared to take comms.   No use having no one taking comms in the initial 45mins of a going domestic.     

It should be going from: Adelaide Fire > 1st brigade to come online > then upgraded to Group base.

theres been a case of 2 incidents occuring within my area within 25mins.  First incident was ran from our own station...RCR with entrap.  The next incident..RCR rollover..we had to call our group station to assist with a crew...them responding allowed us to let them take comms for that incident...separated by Talkgroups (pri and sec) to keep the occurance book clean and tidy

Back to the point...its worth stations having a grn radio...for many reasons...my opinion: two radios at busy brigades to utilise as many of the respondees when they were prepared to go to the job and couldnt.

End ramble --some of this is my own opinion--

[chook]

I'm glad that its not just us having radio/pager issues, thought it was just my guys being careless . Whats worse is you send them away for repair & they come back with the same faults .
The idea of brigades/ units not having a base station, would that mean that for every response group base would be activated? And I like the idea of our radios being able to talk to you guys, I don't know why GRN was set up the way it is. Earlier in the year we were using boats to help you guys fight a fire (long story), had to carry two hand helds which was fine except my ground crew and other units coming in to assist had no idea what was going on!
Hard to run a relay station in a boat with pumps running etc. This led to a number of misunderstandings, which could have been avoided. Also the command channel was choked with traffic, very hard to get messages through. Anyway hopefully when the new system arrives this sought of issue will be addressed, including people thinking that radios are like mobile phones - just have long chats! cheers

[RescueHazmat]

May be CFS should look at removing GRN radio's from brigade stations and that way all comms should go via the group base this in itself would free up GRN radios.

aint that simple,  would be great...but that means youd be calling two brigades to a cat up tree    what im getting at is the severity of the job warranting group base to take over comms...while the primary incident brigade station might already have someone prepared to take comms.   No use having no one taking comms in the initial 45mins of a going domestic.     

It should be going from: Adelaide Fire > 1st brigade to come online > then upgraded to Group base.

theres been a case of 2 incidents occuring within my area within 25mins.  First incident was ran from our own station...RCR with entrap.  The next incident..RCR rollover..we had to call our group station to assist with a crew...them responding allowed us to let them take comms for that incident...separated by Talkgroups (pri and sec) to keep the occurance book clean and tidy

Back to the point...its worth stations having a grn radio...for many reasons...my opinion: two radios at busy brigades to utilise as many of the respondees when they were prepared to go to the job and couldnt.

End ramble --some of this is my own opinion--

In my opinion, a station should only turn into a "Group Base" when the incident reaches second alarm or above.

I laugh every time a single brigade goes to say an alarm, and the station calls them self "Blah Base".. When really they are "Blah Station".. (Until that incident escalates and the incident requires the opening of the Base).

[backburn]

 laugh every time a single brigade goes to say an alarm, and the station calls them self "Blah Base".. When really they are "Blah Station".. (Until that incident escalates and the incident requires the opening of the Base).
 
 

I know when some brigades where thought the Progress Association and we are talking way back before the 1960s the Staton was called " Blah Base" as the station I am with was started in 1952 and I have found some of there reports.   Old habits are hard to get out off.
 

[alphaone]

When i did BFF1 at start of the year, GRN radio operation was a part of it.  There are two booklets covering them (additional to the folder), and we were trained in the operation of them.  and anyway..its a 30min process to learn how to use them hehe.

It is a part of the course, so it should be covered. if not, why not.

GRN TRAINING IS NOT PART OF THE BFF1.  Some brigades/groups have been doing it as part of the BFF1 training programme.  Which means it is an adition to the programme.  I personally do not see how you could teach GRN Training correctly in 30 mins as their are 3 different modules to do: 1. SAGRN Network which includes a 10 minute video with Keith Conlon. 2. SAGRN Mobile radio. 3. SAGRN Portable radio.  Just doing these sections correctly with the CFS specifics of the radio systems would at least make the training go for a minimum of 60 minutes at least.  (MAYBE THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH THE SAGRN NETWORK.  WHEN YOU GUYS ARE SAYING IT IS THE SYSTEM WHEN IN FACT IT IS PROBABLY OPERATOR ERROR DUE TO THE LACK OF CORRECT TRAINING BEING PERFORMED IN THE TRAINING WHICH IS SUPPOSE TO BE DELIVERED.)

I heard the same thing today that you are unable to use the training kits as well due to the training units are now being placed into fire appliances.  But think about it you do not need a training kit to deliver the training.  I think that you all have the CFS specific GRN radios in your station and appliances so you can use them.  Might be a bit harder to do but is quite achievable.  As a SAGRN instructor I have been delivering this way of training for the last 12 months from appliances and stations and it seems to work better as crew members can actually relate to the radio units which are in your station and appliances.  Instead of having training kits which have handpieces with numeric keypad functions which you will never use on a fire appliance.

I agree with you LtDan, GRN training is not part of the BFF1. I done my BFF1 last year and on the last day, our last moduel from the folder was communication; then we had GRN Operations and Use, that went for about an hour, if I remember correctly.

If people are not being taught correctly how to use the equipment, then we can not expect it to last for the length of time that it is suppose to.

[Alan (Big Al)]

Our station becomes Mundoo base only when there are 2 or more brigades involved.

[SA Firey]

GRN also runs smoother when you dont use it like a telephone

[chook]

Exactly

[ltdan]

GRN also runs smoother when you dont use it like a telephone

please explain

[rescue5271]

In other words stop talking for hours on end.......as for adelaide fire doing radio trafffic they dont wont to do it and in the past when SOCC was running they did not mind till a group base came on air....

[chook]

Instead of short sharp messages that get to the point, Long rambling discussions that tie up the network, stop messages getting through and sound unprofessional.