Response SOPs

[CFS_Firey]

Carrying on from the Amusing pager messages thread, about whether responding Rescue/Fire/Ambulance/Police is necessary for ALL MVA's.

Obviously, if not much is known about the incident, and no one is on scene, expect the worst and respond everyone. However, if there is an emergency service on scene, why can't they put a stop on other services, or decide what services they need (If they come across the incident).

For example, a couple of months ago I heard a regional officer come up on GRN124 and request that a brigade be responded to an MVA he had come across.  He specifically said, single motorbike MVA respond XXX brigade to help clean up as there is a minor spillage.  SOC rang MFS and MFS responded a fire brigade and a rescue brigade, as per SOPs.  Surely with a member of the CFS already on scene, having given a SITREP, they don't need to waste the time and petrol of volunteers from the rescue brigade?

[Alan (Big Al)]

Just to clarify, this call was in CFS area?? I know this has been bashed before but if it is in CFS area why would the SOCC ring MFS to call out a brigade even if this brigade states it wants to be responded by MFS that would be complete stupididty. ( If thats what happened)

Back on topic, i agree if there is a CFS officer on scene and they know there no injuries/entrpments and only minor there is no need to respond rescue.  I think it comes down to people using their brains. But if this is going to happen they make up their minds they either respond Fire/Rescue to everything or they respond fire only to what they know are minor jobs, not sometimes this sometimes that... personally i prefer what is said in the RCR Resource directory.

[corecutters]

It comes down to common sense... If a REGIONAL officer is on scene... I think it goes against any viable theory / form of common sense why you would respond rescue to such an incident...


But.. wasn't there.. so don't know.

[CFS_Firey]

Incident was in CFS area, well and truly, both fire and rescue...

but then again, something like this:

MFS: RESPOND Vehicle Accident 08/07/06 22:44,MT BARKER RD,BRIDGEWATER, MAP 146 F 15 ,,FROM POLICE - MINOR ACCIDENT - NO ENTRAPMENT - NO SPILL - NO CLEANUP REQUIRED- POLICE MESSAGE NO 1128,9019 8924*CFSRES:

No CFS officer on scene, but its reasonably obvious that rescue resource is not required (or fire cover for that matter)... 

Should we be responding a rescue brigade to all vehicle fires as well, just in case the fire was the result of an accident, and someone was trapped?

[medevac]

oh dear...

i understand where everyone is coming from as well... but honestly, if we all just had a brief look at the RCR resource directory and had a read through it, we would all know that the written agreement signed by all chief officers of the emergency services states that fire and rescue as well as sapol and saas are to be responded asap from the time of the original call by the call taking agency....

its common sense to get everyone on the road, as information from the public is not reliable.

if a ranking officer is on scene and tells a commcen to respond only a certain resource and go directly againt the directory, then i guess they have then taken the issue into there own hands and any issues that occur as a result of this would be there problem...

and if SAPOL or SAAS are on scene stating no entrapment at the time of call to F&R then theyve obviously ignored the agreement anyway, and are quite likely to recieve a greivance form from anyone with enough spare time...

on a side note... it is very uncommon for SAPOL or SAAS to 'stop call' fire or rescue appliances. and i should think that we wouldnt take it from them anyway.... as i said previously, the max we might do is downgrade.....


end of my personal rant

[corecutters]

Agress ^..


But it does go to show how complicated some issues can get... It is definately easier for ALL involved if every service is sent from the initial time of call.. hehehehe...

[rusty]

Well...the poor dipatchers... damned if they do, damned if they don't.

"Common sense should prevail..." Operator counselled and told to send the recommended response.
"Why send rescue when not required?" Operator counselled for not using common sense.

As pointed out, the RCRRD states that all should be responded outside metro are (and just what is the definition of metro area?).

Often when SAPOL or SAAS call the Fire/Rescue service for a job they may well say that there is no one trapped, but this is the result of questioning the caller, without confirmation of an emergency service on-scene. Everyone has heard and bitched about past incidents when the other service wasn't called, or a simple MVA turnout was found to be a job with entrapments...

So, for now, at least, expect to see more unrequired callouts. At least it'll get the stats up.

[CFS_Firey]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not having a go at any one from MFS comcen or SOCC.  I know they're just doing what they have to... I'm having a go at the SOPs (What ever you call them).

Is there any way we can change the rules so that common sense can prevail?  Why can't we trust members of the public when they say its only a minor fender bender and all occupants are out of the vehicles and uninjured?

[rusty]

Is there any way we can change the rules so that common sense can prevail?  Why can't we trust members of the public when they say its only a minor fender bender and all occupants are out of the vehicles and uninjured?

Because of the f-ups that occured in the past. Too many jobs where rescue wasn't called because the callers might have said that there were no injuries or entrapments, when in fact the opposite was true.

Frustrating, too, how many times the Fire Service/s are called just to be a quick clean-up because the council would take too long...

[CFS_Firey]

ok...
I guess RCR's will become the new private alarms... You know it'll be a Stop call but you have to go anyway...
ahh well, like you said, it bumps your call numbers up

[SA Firey]

There is supposedly an agreement also that SAAS will respond fire service to all vehicle accidents,but that doesnt happen in all cases. You are right in saying that SAPOL and SAAS wont give a stop call, and this is because SAAS dont want to do traffic control, and rightly so, so the sooner another agency gets there thay can be available for other life threatening emergencies!!

All this will come undone when a responding appliance refuses to take a stop call and collides with a member of the public for no reason while still on Priority 1, when based on the information received they could have dropped back to Priority 2 and got there just as quick.