Structure fire investigator's

[rescue5271]

How often have you had to wait at a  structure fire for a fire investigator to attend??? I ask this question as more and more we are waiting far too long for them to arrive in country area's of SA... Would it not be far better and cost effected to have Volunteers who could be trained in each region to do this???


Now I can hear you all getting on your high and mighty but in other state's they have been using well trained Volunteers for years to do the job and there training has been done by the ARSON SQUAD in those state's .There is on going training and there is also yearly local training...

Is this a path that CFS should look at going down??? Your idea's on this would be most helpful.

[Alex]

Answer, you dont HAVE to wait. If it is safe, hand the scene over to SAPol [paid to be there] to secure and let them wait for either a SAPol or SAMFS investigator.

Answer b] is train up CFS staff [not vols], i believe a lot of CFS already hide behind the "we're only volunteers" catch phrase. And for a job as important as this [a lot of the time determining whether insurance companies pay out essentially] a level of accountability neesd to be maintained.

[jaff]

Not sure I follow your logic Alex, CFS vollies investigate bushfires, crop fires and the like, these can and do at times also affect structures, any of these things can have insurance liabilities.
As for accountability, all investigations are logged and documented with due dilligence, accreditation isn't nor should it be a a doddle!

[jaff]

Also yove got more chance of a volie staying in the service, than a staff member at the moment

[rescue5271]

Have to agree with Jaff,

[rescue5271]

Alex, we dont have police on demand down here or any where in the country they are also jumping ship for a better life style and pay  in other state's...

[6739264]

Should we concentrate on being able to actually extinguish Structure fires appropriately first, and maybe THEN look at the investigation side?

No point training up investigators to investigate carparks.

[Alex]

Alex, we dont have police on demand down here or any where in the country they are also jumping ship for a better life style and pay  in other state's...

Mate, you still eventually get SAPol out to every job like that [and a regional officer hence my comment], and theyll beat the response time of investigators from Adelaide. Your not exactly remote down there.

The problem is it is much like MVAs, in that many brigades feel they have to remain till the absoloute last second, when more often than not the job could be passed over to SAPol once secured/made safe.

Jaff, i agree vols have been investigating rural incidents for quite some time now, but when a rural incident effects a structure with damage over $25k i believe structure fire cause still attend more often than not.

[boredmatrix]

The problem is it is much like MVAs, in that many brigades feel they have to remain till the absoloute last second, when more often than not the job could be passed over to SAPol once secured/made safe.

the mets sure as hell don't hang around long for VA's in the city - maybe you can put this in an SOP!

Cones out, disconnect battery, drop litter on oil, sweep litter into gutter with glass and plastic fragments, pick up cones......gone!

[6739264]

The problem is it is much like MVAs, in that many brigades feel they have to remain till the absoloute last second, when more often than not the job could be passed over to SAPol once secured/made safe.

the mets sure as filtered don't hang around long for VA's in the city - maybe you can put this in an SOP!

Cones out, disconnect battery, drop litter on oil, sweep litter into gutter with glass and plastic fragments, pick up cones......gone!

And what ever happened to fire protection for it being loaded onto the tow truck...

Oh the times they are a changing!

[uniden]

Firies shouldnt need to stay on scene indefinitely. We are nor security guards. Sapol should be securing the scene after the fire is out. Then the firefighters go back to the job when fire cause arrive if there is going to be a delay. Easy.

[pumprescue]

I don't know why but CFS have this fascination with staying on scene for investigators both Major Crash and Fire Cause, go home, so long as someone is looking after it. I spoke to a Major Crash guy once and he said he just can't understand why volunteers insist on staying on scene for hours on end, no need for it.

[rescue5271]

We stay on scene as they tend to use our gear for lighting and so on....It des take time for these guys and girls to drive down from the City to the country and if they have had a busy night it can and does take up to 8 hours.....

[Pipster]

If we trained up CFS members (staff or volunteers) the time delay in getting investigators to the scene would not change!!

There is an MOU in existence, which agrees that one police investigator, and one MFS investigator will attend fires falling to a particular criteria.

If the cause is sus, then police do the report, if not sus, the fire service do the report - once the cause has been determined.

Even if CFS members are training, there is still the requirement for police FCI to attend...and they are based in Adelaide.

I cannot see SAPol changing the MOU in regards to their attendance...

Pip

[rescue5271]

Thanks for that Pip.

[mengcfs]

I don't know why but CFS have this fascination with staying on scene for investigators both Major Crash and Fire Cause, go home, so long as someone is looking after it. I spoke to a Major Crash guy once and he said he just can't understand why volunteers insist on staying on scene for hours on end, no need for it.

Me neither.  There is a survey out from the CFSVA in regards to "When is the emergency over" and eals with such issues and when vollies should leave the scene.  Unfortunately history and the good will of volunteers means some Brigades tend to hang around for much longer than necessary.  I suppose if they are happy to do it....

[Shiner]

I suppose if they are happy to do it....

Problem is a lot of them want it both ways - In my paid job (for DTEI) I have, on several occasions at fatal crashes, offered to CFS crews doing traffic control/detour duty, to replace them with DTEI staff and been told 'No, it's ok, we don't want the help etc'.

That's fine until several hours later when DTEI are being slated for not allowing the CFS guys to go home, then you usually get the 'we are only volunteers you know' line which drives me nuts......

Or when we offer to provide staff with the appropriate equipment to clear up after a crash to be told that the crews on site will deal with it - to then get called 5 or 6 hours later, often in the middle of the night, again being criticised for not turning up to assist the volunteers......

Don't get me wrong, it works better than this on most occasions and I certainly now make sure I'm speaking to the right people when dealing with the issues.....

[6739264]

There is little point hanging around on scene if you're not actually achieving anything. If Major Crash don't need anything from you, or you can leave lighting etc at the scene, why not leave the scene until required for body recovery?

If FCI don't need you on scene for fire cover, then why not head home?

As for calling Police etc, for security, it needs to happen far more often. Break in a door at an Alarm and can't get it closed? Call the cops for security. It's not hard.

When will Volunteers stop being so nice?