Do we need Scanias ??

[fire03rescue]

Yes I would love a Scania, but do we need them.Is it only a cosmetic thing
What is wrong with the Hino or Isuzu 
Would it be better to have an appliance with a PTO and better lockers than waste money on a Scania or have more type 2 pumpers

[TillerMan]

The big issue is that it really isn't a huge cost difference between a scania and an isuzu when you look at what you get for your money.

E.G to put an auto gear box in an isuzu it is another $30,000 which almost makes up the difference in cab chassis prices.

On top of that - you can't fit B.A seats in an isuzu.
               - scanias can run a 1000 gpm pump easier, (you can get
                 a type 2 on a scania cab chassis with a 1000 gpm pump)
               - isuzu's are 220 hp and scanias are 310 hp
               - dont know if youve ever been in a scania but they fit
                 6 big dudes in much easier
               - the brakeing and suspension is set up for going fast
                 and stopping even faster

It's not just scania's there are many more cab chassis that are as good and some are alot cheaper, eg. mack, mercedes, frieghtliner, dennis etc etc.

I think that C.F.S should look at the type 2 on a scania cab chassis as it wouldn't be a huge difference in cost and it would be ideal for our needs. C.F.S do own a scania now being mawson tanker so i don't know what they are scared of.

[Wagon 1]

Ask for any other cab/chassis and it might be looked at. Last time I asked the guy in charge of tech services I was told " We are not the mfs stop wanting to be like them" Pity the general public don't see it like that. Won't be long and this service will have less true pumpers than it ever had. What are we afraid of? If its being taken over, who cares, like has been said, its about the people we serve, if you forget that, then its time to go find something else to do.

Another thing to look at is the power of bulk purchasing, mfs are never going to use Isuzu for their heavy pumpers, so if we tack on it might just have to be cania, we need to stop re-inventing the wheel each time both services buy vehicles. I won't lie, I look at the SAMFS fleet with great envy, its not to often you see a CFS truck and go "WOW, thats a nice well built truck" The Dennis and the typee 2 are some I have said, nice truck, but you look at a 24P and 34P and go, why did they do that, blind freddy knows you can't do much with a pump that size with only 2 inlets and 2 outlets, and he restrictive plumbing. We are a hope for the best fire service, and apparently all we do is fight bushfires. You ask any meber of the public what we do, and it amazes them we fight structure fires, mvas, hazmats etc. To be honesta lot of it goes back to the fact we look like a bushfire brigade, which a large number of us are, but not all of us, and its like pulling teeth getting cfs hq to recognise that fact, some of them do, but the one's that sign the purchase orders don't!

Well thats my rant and rave for today, sorry it leads a little off topic, but you get frustrated with the system sometimes, when you can see what needs to be done, but the people we pay to support us can't see it!

[strikeathird]

hehe... If they keep re-inventing the wheel, one day they might get it right...

[Wagon 1]

Nope, those re-invented wheels that don't work right end up at brigades that don't whinge much, they are just happy they don't still have the WW2 Blitz truck!

[Roger]

If we keep buying stuff that makes us look like the poor cousins then we'll always BE the poor cousins. I agree with the power of bulk purchasing and combining orders to get better value for money. The sooner the Services get together in this area the better we'll all be.

[oz fire]

Poor cousins - we are the poor cousins - we get a third of the MFS budget, have 10 times as many stations, 8 times the fleet and cover 96% of SA.

As for looking like the poor cousins - mmmm not to 90% of our brigades - once you get outside of the hills face zone, people look at their CFS as the fire service, the people who will help them, save them and be there when they are called - the public don't give a toss what we drive.

Yes we need to have equipment suitable to do the job, but many of those that are expecting/pushing for MFS equivelant trucks don't have the risk in their area - maybe in another services area, or neighbouring brigades area, but not so much in theirs.

There are many many prime movers out there now, within Australias fire services both career and volunteer using many from Volvos, Scanias, Isuzus, Macks, La Frances, Freightliners, Hinos, Mitsubishis, Fords the list goes on - maybe we should look at what others are doing and join their buying power, after all MFS have no buying power, they have a small fleet and don't buy that many new prime movers and do we want to look like them - is there any point - if the point is to be noticed and have an image, they why would we want to look like them, we would be lost even more.

If image and looks are the problem, then maybe Brenton Ragless needs some assistance in his tirless effort to promote the service, it's image and the thousands of hours that Volunteers put in, ever week.

[Roger]

You're right, of course, Oz, there are lots of other orders we could tack on to...
And so what if our trucks look the same as SAMFS? As you said, "The public don't give a toss what we drive." (If image is the problem.) I couldn't care less if our trucks were red.
What I do object to, however, is our troops being told by the staff that they won't consider Scanias just because that's what the MFS have. This stinks of the Us V Them syndrome. Sure, if there are legit reasons for not choosing Scania then fair enough, but it seems typical of some of the players that politics comes before the needs of SA and the Vols.
Blah

[strikeathird]

If it's about image, give us a Seagrave Pumper and a Mack Aerial Scope.....That will turn some heads..


I laugh at the fact, that if some members of this board were in heirachy positions, things could actually differ for the better...   Or am I dullusional ?? !! ??

[JamesGar]

All right, I'm going to bid in on this topic...

Scania 94D Cab/Chassis in current MFS confiruration is a great urban fire fighting appliance! Good brakes, good layout for the crew of 4. It has a 260hp engine not 310 as stated (that's from MFS engineering).

It's an expensive truck, and before people start going on about the same risk, same job yadda yadda yadda, they are a lot busier and have a much higher risk coverage than the CFS does on a whole. I'm talking more about career station's and busier retained stations.

I see a lot of short falls in using Scania's in the CFS fleet, starting with BA seat! I like the concept, but stop and think hear for a minute. With two BA seat in the rear of a scania they can fit only a maximum of 5 people in the cab. I'm sure if you keep missing the truck being the sixth person to the station then you might get a pissed with it. I like having 6 or 7 on an urban pumper, so you can quickly cover additional scene need, ie exposure line, stand pipe, traffic control, safety/first aid...

For less money I'd prefer a Mack Midlim Cab.Chassis with 260hp, Allison Auto G/box and 7 seats in the cab (IF you could have 2x BA seat and still have seating for 4 more crew then ok). Base this on the URP (with crew deck in areas that need it, and with additional lockering in areas that need that!) appliance with a 750gpm (or greater) pump and things would be looking ok.

Personally I don't care what the appliance looks like, ugly white, red, blue, pink with daisies on it. As long as I'm a volunteer and the pager goes off I'll still rock up and do the best I can with what I've got. Sorry but got to say in the CFS stop dreaming about Scanias, they're not the bees knees and I'd prefer to fix some training needs and PPE.

[Wagon 1]

I think the title might not be so good, I think maybe a better appliance might be the way to go, and this comes from the fact when councils used to fund us, some of us did alright. Now we are going downhill rapidly as our "babies" lives come to an end and we are not happy with the alternative. Granted SAMFS do a lot more runs, but break it down, and well, its not that exciting. I think there are lots of alternatives, and I have looked at a number of other cab/chassis that come in miles under the price of a Scania, but we seem to get a "good" deal from Isuzu, its just a real shame they dropped the cab/chassis that Stirling have, as the old saying goes "not so squeezy"!!

What annoys me is that those of us that care about what we get for our community keep getting shot down in flames! Mark my words, we will be like the NSWRFS before you can blink, can't you see it, replacing all these older pumpers with 34P's. I think it won't be long before CFS give up much of its urban responsability, hey, it's a damn site cheaper to build a 34 or 34P than it is a proper pumper!!

[corocfs]

meybe a better title for thias thread would be "do we need heavier pumpers?"

because no... we dont need Scanias, we just need heavier pumppers.
this question is like asking do we need Oakleys? no... we just need new sunnies. (personal crisis.. HAHAHAHA)

hmm that sounds stoopid, but im gonna say it neway.

[Wagon 1]

Thats it, sounds ok to me.

[TillerMan]

I didn't mean m.f.s when i said scania's are 310 horsepower, i know m.f.s have 260 hp scania's but the question is "do we need scania's" not "do we need m.f.s scania's", scania now doesn't make 260 hp cab chassis only 310 hp from now on from what i have been told. Hence the CFA and MFB mark 5's are 310 hp.

I am also only talking about c.f.s needing maybe 2 or 3 of this heavy style pumper in the whole fleet. These appliences would go to a busy high risk brigade but would probably want to be placed north, south and central (to the hill's go) and be a state support appliance. Maybe 1 in the barrossa and 1 in th south east.

CFA run 2 BA seats in the back of thier scania's and a bench seat between them which can fit another 2 people on it so you can have six crew. Maybe belair has gotten too used to carrying 25 people on the back.

I guess the other thing is why get something different to m.f.s if we don't have to, it would be good to be able to walk up to an m.f.s truck and everything is in the same place as on our truck's.

[JamesGar]

I agree Belair has had the fortune/misfortune of having space for extra crew and BA to don in that area on the way to a job. Whether I agree with that on an OHSW ground is a different matter!

[CFS_Firey]

In my opinion, the CFS should be getting Scania for our heavy pumpers... They are tried and true by MFS, there is a mets workshop that know Scanias like the back of their hands, hence easy servicing, and quick problem fixing, and it should be REALLY easy and a little cheaper if we just tack an oder on the end of an MFS order, then spray them white...
I don't mind what make appliances we use, so long as they work, it just really annoys when when they excuse for not having a good appliance is that we would look too much like the MFS... Isn't the CFS trying to promote a professional image?

[strikeathird]

^^ Good call.