SA Firefighter

Quote from: FFGAZZ on June 09, 2014, 09:37:55 AM
I would say just the rumour mill at work again. In Nuriootpa there is over a million litres of ethonal stored so CFS can't just stop supplying it. Some B class foam was recalled recently as it was found to have an increased cancer risk from it but I'm not aware of it not being supplied anymore.

Cheers but I'm sure that much ethanol stored would be a specific risk and since Ethanol is an alcohol-polar solvent it would break down AFFF and you would have to be using an AR-AFFF. Those foams are usually proportioned at 3% for hydrocarbons and 6% for polar solvents.

Saw this on the SASGAR website

I heard a rumour and it may only be that but I was told CFS will only now provide Class A BFFF foam now and that is to be used on Class A and Class B fires. If bridages wish to store and stow Class B AFFF foam it is at the cost to the Group or Bridage. Can someone with their finger on the pulse please clarify the situation?

Very poor fleet management and not taking anything away from the small brigades out there that respond to minimal incidents as they still play a vital role in the public safety of their community and the state but seriously you have to ask the question when you see some of the state's busier brigades rolling around in really old trucks that have done some hard yards in areas that have some high cost assets!

The whole fire and rescue model in South Australia is broken. You have the UFU, CFSVA and individual CFS groups and brigades all pushing their own agenda's mixed in with the overriding governance from management of the CFS, MFS and SAFECOM.

Wouldn't it be a perfect world where the red and white appliance boundary was dissolved and resources were utilised more efficiently without red trucks passing white sitting in stations and vice versa.

Response statistics provided in Annual Reports show paid stations have been built servicing areas that go to less incidents than some of their neighbouring volunteer brigades as well as retained brigades going to less incidents than volunteer brigades. Why not have a model that can be changed to provide the best level of service to the community that is based on sound strategic, tactical and budgetary foundations for the community of South Australia. In a perfect world every station would be paid, but would that be economically viable, we all know the answer!

For example the station is volunteer the level of response gets to a point were it is higher then you make it retained to provide those fire fighters with remuneration for their services and when it gets to a point where it becomes too onerous then it becomes paid. That way you could have this mix across the whole state even in the ever increasing urban sprawl. Maybe even one service then we could look at utilising services better in management, training, engineering, fire safety (educational programs) and other services provided to the public instead of duplicating services. Also look at the way fire stations are constructed and costed so we are not rebuilding stations or relocating so often in the suburbs with high price tags!

Probably never happen in my life time and just my thoughts!

Anyone know how the CFS and the CFS VA are getting on with this?

Damn people how hard is it, I can't believe some of you are banging on about this.

1. Pager goes off

2. Duty officer - acknowledges message was received from Adelaide Fire and possibly gains further information, usually has a duty officer mobile phone and CFS GRN portable radio.

3. Duty Officer - If not making his/her way to station has two forms of comms with Station and or appliance.

4. Fire appliance leaves station in an exceptable time makes call on GRN to Adelaide Fire and primary GRN channel for your group, or duty officer can default brigade, job right!

I've seen appliances leave my station in 5 to 10 mins with out any dramas or the process having holes!

Seriously some of you need to take up a hobby or self medicate if that helps!

Yeah agree with a 44 would be benefical to remote brigades and agree the types are close to what we see but I'd look at alterations to locker layout,pump sizes, engine sizes, the overall quality of the fleet being built considering fire appliances stay in service for some time. Also dont get into that whole rural/urban - urban/rural thing kind of like CFS SFEC's a very old joke!

Tankers or BWC sorry left them off the list but pretty much required without saying.

An example is the 34P, most I've seen are located on the urban fringe and larger rural centres (probably could have pumpers, but I'll leave that alone). On those you could question the crew deck, the locker layout is apalling, pumps could be bigger and soon as they need to climb a decent hill they're embarrassing. Plus look at the build quality some are put together badly!

Also definately agree with your statement of overhaulling the system into where, what and why appliances are located. Plus a better fllet roation system, does a new appliance need to go to a brigade that turns out bugger all?

I think the CFS needs to have a standardised fleet, brigades going out and doing their own thing should be pulled in. What CFS brigades respond to if you looked at the frequency and severity are not unique or special incidents in the main, if you sat down put a decent case study together and risk assessed their claims I feel most would fall over.

You could simply achieve a good fleet by building the appliances listed below or similar and have solid review systems in place before each build contract is put into place to ensure continuous improvement.

• QAV - 4wd ute
• Light Rural - 1000L 4wd crew deck
• Heavy Rural - 3000L 4wd crew deck 2 x CABA
• Urban/Rural - 2000L 4wd no crew deck larger pump, 4 x CABA and RCR if required.
• Pumper - 2wd larger pump again, longer hose reels, 4 x CABA, and RCR if required and strategically placed at large rural centres and the urban fringe.

Then you could look at strategically placing purpose built HAZMAT and Heavy Rescue tenders across the state to provide coverage to country SA.
Just an idea!

Quote from: gasman on October 02, 2012, 05:02:14 PM
Used to be that once upon a time we used to do things for people in our community because that was the community minded thing to do. There was no mention of liability and no form of payment other than a carton of beer. What the hell has happened to us as a community? filtered poor if you ask me.

Things change, plus the role of a volunteer firefighter has altered and become more in depth i.e. more compentencies to maintain, so how much time do they dedicate?

Between incident response, training, equipment maintenance, P/R jobs and hazard reduction burns during summer. I'm pretty sure the average CFS firefighter has provided their bit to the community over their years of service!

The couple of brigades I've been at won't fill pools anymore for the reason listed below:

You spend more time doing the task than the donation is generally worth.

Grey area in regards to filling the pool with non metered water.

Liability on the brigade if any damage is caused.

Owners can go hire a portable pump and hose from a hire place!

Cranks watching pager sites and second guessing whats going on love it.

Christ,if that's true. The Advertiser is like reading Women's weekly, only buy the Sunday mail so I've got paper for the bottom of my bird cage!

I'm sure CFS would be phasing out any old gear that does not meet Australian Standards with new and any new gear laying around not issued would be re-striped.

I know CFS is run by a bunch of public servants but really???

Fly on the wall sorry to disappoint but I'm actually paid and volunteer...

I think we could just have a better model of fire and rescue response in this state. Some paid stations could be retained, some retained could be volunteer or the other way some volunteer could be retained to cover the individuals cost then once those retained stations become too busy they could become paid!

CFS and MFS duplicate some services in both HQ's that could be cut as well!

To answer your questions

Maybe the CFS areas in question have problems getting a crew? NO
Yeah, CFS has BA operators but what are the trucks urban pumping capabilities?
Some have pumper and some have 34P's which dont cut the mustard but they can be found deep in CFS area's in large country towns so change is required there!
How far into urban environments are some of the CFS Brigades?
urban fringe think that pretty much explains it!
Have you seen some of the CFS/MFS boundaries and the risks on the CFS side?
Bit of a broad range and diverse statement!
Are you worried that you can't tell anyone that you are a firefighter anymore?
As above both paid and vol!

Alex you've sort of misread what I had to say by no means am I having a go at any Adelaide Fire Comm's Officer you are at the bottom of the process. My rant is with the the hierarchy of this states fire services.

I've heard differently off the record from Comm's operators that will go unnamed due to working in Adelaide Fire that they've been told by the Officer to put the job on the MFS side of the boundary!

Understand the software was written by an external provider but it's the data entered into that given software!

I've been to CFS meetings in the past in regards to the interface on the urban fringe told one thing by CFS and now almost the exact opposite has occurred due to CFS either not being fully informed or telling volunteer stations one thing and doing the other!

For example "boundaries will become faded and the nearest and most appropriate will be responded" therefore CFS can also remove "EMA". Then brigades question why are they not responded metres from there station and the answer of the legislative gazettal takes priority over any agreement relating to the nearest and most appropriate (SOP and MOU).

So now MFS appliances get responded almost right up to CFS brigades with no CFS resources used and now we are seeing single MFS appliances being responded right into CFS areas where 2 or more CFS appliances are also being responded. I now hear it will be 2 MFS appliances for structure fires in CFS area, so how far?

I understand both services have a duty of care to the general public but if these urban fringe brigades are not utilized properly then morale will drop even lower. If we are not using these brigades effectively shall we get rid of them? Then that becomes a double edged sword unfortunately if you don't use these urban fringe brigades on a regular basis so they maintain their skills and knowledge what happens when MFS has those large incidents? Where they require CFS to do COQ into the metropolitan area will these brigades then be appropriate into the future or CFS brigades further out that lack even less urban fire fighting skills, experience and knowledge. Also these brigades provide large numbers for strike teams and numbers to HAZMAT incidents in the state.

All I'm saying the service provided to the community across the state could be done a lot better if resources were managed with more fiscal prudence and strategic effectiveness whether it is full-time, retained or volunteer.

The Country Fire Service is slowly dying.

MFS manage call, receive, dispatch so if there is a boundary call who's side of the road do you think the job will be!

SACAD is written heavily leaning towards MFS and because CFS did not and still does not fully understand the model and will now and into the future get bent over by MFS.

Whilst CFS management in town do not have the ability to run the CFS as a business and look at growth by changing the service model provided to the community and slowly hand over to the MFS and let the UFU boss around both services watch the CFS slowly die!

It's pretty much a good idea not to try and dangle bait on a hook when you're on an internet forum and English is your second or third language.

A lot of urban fringe brigades have been in existence for 60 plus years and the support to the CFS/MFS is invaluable.

They respond with MFS, provide COQ when MFS resources are stretched and respond into neighbouring CFS brigade areas and a lot of time arrive on scene the same time or before those brigades.

These brigades also supply a lot of support to the CFS in other areas such as training and IMT. Also when task forces are required they can usually supply a large number of fire fighters and resources if required.

Ignorance is sometimes bliss!

This style of appliance should be at every urban fringe brigade and large country towns.

The Country Fire Services appliance builds have been sub standard in the past with a greater focus on rural response and the quality assurance of those builds has been well below par with new appliances requiring modifications or repairs not long after brigades receive them if this was the case in the private sector it would be treated differently.

The decision makers in town need to realise that statistically the majority of incidents attended by most urban fringe and large country town brigades are of a rescue or urban response.

Hopefully this appliance is not a one of build and we start to see improvements in appliances. Since the CFS is a volunteer service should it have lesser equipment and training? considering the saving to the community in not having to provide wages?

If a member of the public calls into your station whilst your there and reports an incident close to your station with the appropriate crew I would attend notifying Adelaide fire etc.

What CFS still does poorly because of tribalism, lack of education and poor leadership:

* Responds more appliances out of one station than they need to.
* Delay on defaulting to another brigade or service.
* Responding appliances with non appropriate crews.
* Generating non event jobs to get their call rate up.
* Sitreps given before they actually arrive.

I've seen all of the above from certain brigades and if they were paid they would face serious disciplinary actions of demotion, suspention or termination of employment. These brigades need to wake up and realise community safety is bigger than their little brigade boundary!

Having facial hair is against CFS policy and also falls short of Australian Standard AS/NZ 1715:2009 Selection and use of respiratory protective equipment.

Which clearly states the complete sealing section of the mask should be in contact with the wearers skin. All of this is considered with beards, moustaches, sideburns, stubble growth or long hair and other factors such as jewelery.

In regards to our turnout gear rural gear needs to meet AS/NZ 4824:2006 and Structural gear needs to meet AS/NZ 4967:2006.

You can wear rural gear for car fires and externally at structure fires. The older Nomex level 3 gear with the liner use to be our standard for internal fire fighting at structures fire can only be worn externally at structure fire now days as I got told it does not meet the standard by CFS.

You've got it all wrong you just need to be a footballer at SANFL level or greater or a sportsperson that's been in the public limelight then you're in!

:-D

The system is painful but the trial goes on, only the mental patients running the asylum in South Australia for CRD and communications would know why?

I've heard it all on here now!

Good on those brigades that can generate another source of income and have personnel that can hand over the extra time to such a commitment but unfortunately there are a number of pro's and con's.
Should a fire services brigade/station have to entertain a system where they have to consider setting up and maintaining a business or time intensive fund raising to prop up purchases of equipment?

If we dissected down these efforts like Bridgewater's op shop or Burnside's large fundraising effort or a lot of other brigades that fundraise in time vs. hourly rate in the simplest form I reckon it would be ordinary. I know the word "Volunteer" pops up now but if they are so keen would they be better focusing on training and equipment maintenance with that time?

Some of the actual purchases of brigades that can afford non standard stowage have been of concern in the past. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence where equipment has been bought with minimal due process in regards to training, initial equipment purchase cost, maintenance costs internally and externally. Some examples are quick cut saws, positive ventilation fans, gas detectors and heights equipment for working at heights or heights/confined space entry rescue and training in specific area's CFS training cannot provide.

CFS headquarters needs to be listening to the rationale needs of its fire fighters to ensure the right equipment and training is accessible to certain brigades. It does not need to be a blanket approach as it would not meet all community safety needs in all areas of CFS response.

For too long the South Australian Country Fire Service has been a one trick rural pony, with a few glimmering lights in the training we receive in URAR, HAZMAT and CFB.

Areas that have dropped off the radar are:

•Fire appliances i.e. pumpers to manage the urban interface and large regional centres response requirements
•SFEC's how many fire fighters allowed to have competencies in BA,RCR and HAZMAT etc in brigades
•Number of courses conducted per year
•Newer technology equipment that should or could be standard in certain brigades i.e. Thermal imaging cameras, gas detectors, RCR equipment (stabilisation/hydraulic tools)

Quote from: misterteddy on August 17, 2011, 02:21:44 PM
Of course a Federal Copper is the best person to investigate a Fire Service

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/wa-fire-boss-sacked-after-scathing-report/story-e6frea73-1226116780889

Good luck to the ex-CFS boys in FESA, wonder how long the golden fleece will last now that they look headed for the Public Service

Careful throwing mud Teddy our service at a Corporate level is lacking in a number of areas which filters down, can you truly blame them for leaving the CFS if you compare their pay to their counterparts in the MFS.

I would not get out of bed for what CFS paid staff get!

Damn are you lot serious he is the Chief Officer of a large fire service that geographically spans an immense area. Do you think if the CFS was a private company everyone would have the opportunity to get warm and fuzzy with the CEO, please you're killing me!

His priorities should be to sort out the service from the top down, concentrating on high level decisions about policies, strategies and direction of the service.

Personally I hope he's coming up with options to improve training, equipment, fleet and the lack of focus on the CFS being a complete fire service not just a rural fire service and cutting irresponsible spending of funds!