SA Firefighter

1 1/2" AGE Darley pump, dont remember the PTO ratio, but it is feed 30+ HP - I remember winding them off the pressure gauge at 2000 KPA+

Fitted with a Davey fire fighter as AUX pump. It is set up to be removed from the truck and used for filling from a dam etc.

Been a while since I had anything to do with the appliances

Gday,

Are the trucks that have been built in the last few years going to last to 20 years?


Naracoorte Pumper - 9 Years old & full of rust

Stirling Pumper - 4? Years old & continual problems.

Seaford Pumper - 14? Years old Continual Problems (seems to be going well at the moment)

McClaren Flat 34 - 2 or 3 years old and has problems staying on all 4 wheels.


Was speaking to a GO down my way a few weeks back and he said the workman ship on the newer trucks is shocking.  The electrical system in the truck is useless - The water level indicator has 10 wires in the same tube all black! no colour coding.


And then you look at the appliances built 20 years ago like Burnside Pumper & Eden Hills Pumper.  Still going strong at 25 & 20 respectively.  Why is this?  New parts not as good?  Competition is greater therefore cheaper prices therefore lesser quality?


What are peoples thoughts?

The Naracoorte pumper body was manufactured from Ali - if it is rusting it would have to be the chassis rails?

Chassis rusting has been and will be an ongoing issue. Addressing the issues by having any requirements written in to the spec, at the time of tender, would help eliminate the issues.

The last lot of appliance I worked on have a 20Yr warranty on the plumbing - this was a requirement of the tender documentation and was designed and manufactured accordingly.

You only get what is asked for - no manufacturer will or can afford to do any more than that, or the price of the tended appliance would be to high.

Also, you may not realise it, but, there is not a lot of money to be made by manufacturing fire appliances. For the risks and hassels involved in making trucks, they deserve a hell of a lot more.

just my 10 cents worth.

What is the rust problem with the 9YR Naracoorte pumper?

Also general rust problems - chassis related or body build related?

Chassis will be a problem as it is steel - used in an environment where moisture is present.

It is difficult to build a all in one appliance - A dedicated rescue vehicle is the way to go in my opinion. 

If a Fire Appliance with RCR and 4WD capability is required trade offs will have to happen. It also takes a lot of money.

Another dynamic is the range of RCR gear that can be used. Also the role (heavy rescue
If somebody could ever define a minimum and have it agree to across the board (lighting, generators, RCR gear, pump size, water capacity, seating capacity, 4WD or 2WD, foam - type and amount, crew numbers for tasks, size of vehicle - GVM and dimensions.)

I may be also a little bold and say egos and oppions drive a lot of this type of debate not reality and practicability. (That being said, I do not have an answer for the problem)

Good luck!

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I would not sprout off re the seven report -

Defect notices on the hino winscreen - they are delivery dockets with the Vin number - not defect notices. The appliance are waiting to be built upon. I believe the current build is also up to date to the tender requirements.

The trucks were not delivered over weight - if they are over weight it is a result of additional equipment fitted after delivery. The appliances delivered to cfs, met the weight spec as written by CFS.

Only 2 trucks of the 9 delivered in that batch have had reported problems in the handling, to my knowledge.

Fire fighters have had enough to do with the media to know that a distorted picture of reality is portrayed, realitly and truth is a casulty.

To my knowledge no police issued defects have been placed on any recent manufactured 34 Appliances.

The CFS is a dynamic and diverse organization with many a varying oppinion. Some time the loudest voice is heard, is not the oppinion representing the mass.

I hope the truth come out at the end of the day and a local company does not become a casualty of miss-information. It is a long way interstate to get little or no response from a manufacturer, that has no local roots.

I am an ex employee of Moore Engineering and did the paperwork on the appliances (tendering and completion)and to my knowledge the comply in every way to the requirements of the specification.

Andrew

Before I left Moore Engineering I did the design / Spec for the sturt pumping trailer.

From memory:

2000 LPM + pump capacity - it can pump solids - up to ?mm (I think 15odd mm) petrol powered. It was to be mounted in a manner as it could be lifted off the trailer and left on site, whilst the trailer was used for sand bagging.

All threads were to be SAMFB (london round) compliant - fully compatable with MFS and CFS. I have not had any contact since I left (5 months) - so I hope it worked out as originally specked.

- By the way I am loving it in QLD - I am off to AFAC next week, on the Quik Corp stand.

If anybody is in Melb, call by and say hi. We have our range of reels, a slip on unit and a new twin pump system - one high volume pump and a high pressure pump, low volume pump. It can be run both pumps at the same time - or individually.

Just a quick comment on the SES stand down.

When I was a SES Member at Murray Bridge we had a stand down policy, that we could only be stop called by the agency that called us.

If the Ambos called re a RCR - we would call up on air and get told to stop (via CFS Comms - from info from CFS on scene) - no one trapped. - The Ambos wanted us to assist with casualty handling or lighting not just rescue - 12 Casualties at the RCR. If we listened to the stop call we would let down the Ambos.

Some times we are at the job before we could confirm the responding agencies stop call.

With RCR it is better to be safe than sorry.

The first 9 delivered early in the year (and the last few just this month) do not have the halo, the next 14 will have it.

We could offer the Halo as a retro fit to any of the last 750 Isuzu Appliance - cost would vary depending on who manufactured the appliance.

Dont hold me to it but around the $2500 + GST (some less, some might cost more)

4 of the 8 appalinces have been delivered. Initial feed back seems good. The rest will be out next week.

We have all the 34 appliances completed. We have been waiting on the green light for the water halo system for the can - and that seems to be given the nod.

We are in the process of getting the required materials together and finishing the halos off.

We were hoping to get the out before Christmas, but that is not looking good

Early new year we are now hoping for.  The 14 unit are Nealy finished, some have been delivered.

I have been watching this thread for a while and really had to smack my fingers several times when I have gone to type a response to what I have read, but I can wait no moore (pun intended)

To my knowledge no cost cutting existed in the design and manufacture of the appliance

The original option was to re-use the old back end - after a refurb. We were able to build a new back end for a few K more than the refurb cost option.

The CAFS system has had problems. PTO/Drive line issues. These have resulted in a failure of the engine on 2 occasions. On the second occasion the appliance was being returned to the station after some minor body repairs.

The CAFS system performs to expectations and has had several enhancements from the common usage in the USA. Refinement is still ongoing, but results to date are pleasing, maybe some more to refinement is still required.

How and when to use CAFS is and will be an ongoing debate. As with anything of this nature in an environment as varying as CFS / SA - Rural - Urban - opinions will always differ.

To anybody not involved in the process of developing an idea into a reality, I would invite you to have a go some time - you will see the process in a new light

If you were to put a cost on the man hours put in by the brigade and other volunteers it would be staggering.

Andrew.

A bit of news for an old thread, but....

Moore Engineering manufactured the first vehicle on the volvo, also manufactured the body of the second vehicle on the scania. Workshops did the fit out, Skilled did the electrical and painting.

Moore Eng used 3M tape for the panels - it is a tried and tested method of manufacture, some of the panels lifted. Combination of problems, but it was re worked and seems fine now.

Moore Eng have also used a glue, this is common in vehicle manufacture - cars. It also works well.

Andrew