SA Firefighter

QuoteOutsource it I say....lololol

Outsourced? - like the bus companies?

Baboon should not find it repugnant that any first aider can call themselves a paramedic - it is just a name that sounds cool and has been claimed by the industry as a mark of professionalism.  When I started with SAAS "ALS" was the standard for the multitudes and "Paramedics" were the elite.  Then one day at the stroke of a pen, every Diploma graduate became a "Paramedic", and the old Paramedics became "Intensive Care Paramedics".

Registration is a different matter.  Paramedicine or pre hospital care needs people with many different levels of skill, and any national push for registration should encompass all in the industry, not just those with a degree. - This includes the career (emergency) professional, the non emergency sector - and even volunteers.  Maybe then it wouldn't matter whether you worked for metro SAAS, the privates or on a country vollee station - you would still be a professional.

Something like 19 managers for 12 positions - mostly desk jockeys. - a change to the regions (downwards), and maybe a few more things. the aim as i understand it is to get more clinicians on the road without hiring anyone new. Also I hear government knocked back the proposal for ICP response ambulances - so if SAAS wants to continue with this idea, it has to find a way to pay for it.

I think you will find they don't dare put it to air if there is any chance of a fire breaking out - if the SAAS experience is anything to go by.

From what I hear and read, SACAD and Operator error are one in the same.  The Dispatchers are so flat out trying to keep on top of the SACAD problems that they just can't keep up with the workload.  Like having to keep paper notes of ambulance positions, constantly having to manually enter data, crews incorrectly showing on the screens as unavailable etc etc.

For a system that was years (10 - 12??)in the making, there seem to be heaps of problems for SAAS.  I assume they are not Service specific and every emergency service will experience similar hassles.

From one of the many SACAD docs:

..."From the On Call shift commencing at 1700 or 1800 hrs 20 September 2011, call signs used will change. The call sign will now be split into two; each will include an 'alpha' and 'bravo' identifier to differentiate between each crew member.
The 'alpha' and 'bravo' identifier follows the team name and precedes the 178 or 188 shift identifier, ie: 'Whyalla Alpha 188', 'Whyalla Bravo 188'."

Once a crew has assembled (either at scene or at an agreed location)
the call sign for the duration of the case will reflect the call sign of the
ambulance that actually conveys the patient to hospital. ie: if the
patient is transported in the ambulance used by the Whyalla Bravo 188
staff member then that will be the call sign. Having cleared a case and
disassembled as a crew, each officer reverts back to their allocated call
sign. ie: ie: 'Whyalla Alpha 188', 'Whyalla Bravo 188'.

Make any sense to you?

Three pages of "problems" were sent out by the Union, - concerns raised by EOC staff.  I was interested as to whether these problems flowed on to roadies or mainly affected the EOC. 

The following were alleged by the Union to be "unreliable": Patient condition info, Case category, "At risk" location info, AVL info, Address verification, appropriate resource recommendations, mapping system, work load levelling "special location" info.  Also mentioned was "screen freezes", poor screen design, multiple paging of crews, screens must be watched constantly (no toilet breaks).

Apparently eight additional dispatchers will be recruited immediately (not solely because of SACAD).  The Union also states that after their meeting with SAAS Executive, and their concerns becoming semi public, there were additional visits to SAAS by high flyers from SAFECOM, SAPOL and the Chief of Staff from Health.

In the light of the AEA's notice about the problems with SACAD, what is the feeling from the troops.  My initial impression is confused and frustrated.  Heaven help the state when all the other Services swap over!

QuoteMight depend on whether the home has a clause in their contract stating that
they do not use SAAS, and/or whether he has made it clear in writing that SAAS
is his only acceptable PTS provider.

Every NH patient that I have ever met has an information book with all relevant medical/personal/contact details - including ambulance cover number.  If that was there, I would say the NH would be obliged to use SAAS as their transport provider - regardless of NH preference.

QuoteDoes anyone know of any casual PTS positions coming up this year? I heard there is a move to private ambulance companies supposedly happening before june so what is going to happen with SAAS patient transport?

Wow - hasn't the thread changed somewhat since the initial question  :-D

Don't ya just love forums - just like having a conversation in the front bar after work.

A bit of wavy history (others more in the know feel free to correct my GOF memory)

Cannot remember the exact numbers, but the first few groups of grads were about 16-20 per graduating class.  There was no such thing as an internship and the idea was that graduates would apply for jobs using traditional practices.  Successful applicants were only going to spend something like 12 weeks in training before becoming paramedics

Something like 2-4 people got accepted from one of the initial groups and an irate parent who had forked out many thousands in uni fees went to their parliamentarian. The initial number of successful job seekers was inflated somewhat to the Press and parliament by offering some of the unsuccessful applicants ATS jobs.  After this, SAAS management rethought the whole process and the end result was the development of the Internship (initially 12 months??) which was then further stretched out to include the NES components.

QuoteWhat's the 'veteran' paramedic's view on the graduates applying for these internships? I hope they aren;tautomatically presumed to be incapable of doing a job they've studied for 3 years to do... simply because they haven't had as many birthdays as everyone else,

Yep - that is pretty much the view - just the same as it is for any graduate in any profession.  Uni does not teach you how to do a job, it just gives you a truckload of generic knowledge.  In every profession you have to empty the bedpans and clean up the lab before they award you the Nobel Prize

There is a great scene in "Nurse Jackie" where she tells her graduate nurse to put her finger on a dressing on the neck of a trauma victim.  "But you always treat me like a child - I want to do something important", says the Newbie.
Nurse Jackie tells her to take her finger away from the dressing, which dramatically shoots off under the pressure of an arterial bleed.  Nurse Jackie: "See, it IS important"

Just a few observations on the above discussion:

Crusty Old Farts - Employing Non Emergency Services (NES) staff from the Uni ranks does not get rid of the COFs - they will be there until the reaper drives them away in the Big Black Ambulance. COFs and for that matter "Failed and Disaffected Paramedics" (FDPs) give Non Emergency Services a bad name and are universally disliked by the PTS/ESS members who see their part of the job as a valuable resource.

Why recruit Uni students? - Initially it was more of a political move because the students were not securing casual positions through traditional recruitment processes - they did not have the maturity or ability to put their clinical knowledge into practice. Now it looks like the rationale is to save on training time. From memory,the first few Cert IV intakes (Community Studies) were 14 or 16 weeks in the classroom with lots of practical assignments in between.

Quote
Being a PTS officer does not increase your chances of getting a paramedic intern job.

.

Don't for a minute think that the attitude and knowledge of Uni Casuals (good and bad) goes unnoticed on station.  Make yourself a pain to your partner (who may be a COF) and the word will get around big time.  You may make the internship, but you will be carrying a big question mark on your back from Day 1.

Also, don't think that an internship is the same as a job. Initially only a small percentage of the first graduate groups actually got into SAAS at paramedic level.  Questions were asked in parliament as to why SAAS was not employing SA graduates etc etc.  It was my understanding at the time that an Internship program would result in the maximum number of graduates being employed by SAAS - at least for 12 months or so.  This stopped the "Ministerials" and gave SAAS more breathing room in selecting permanent staff.

The downside of this is that SAAS generally takes the easy way out and tends to offers unsuccessful interns ESS/PTS positions rather than giving them the flick - topping up the Non Emergency COF/FDP gene pool

PS, the reason for the extra PTS is so that ESS can be relieved of Cat 6s so that they in turn can take up Cat 4s and some Cat Cs (eventually, maybe 80% of them) so that Emerg can concentrate on Cat A & B.

A bunch of new PTS cars are starting next week covering 24/7 and they are a little stretched for staff to fill the extra shifts.  Have heard a rumour that the latest bunch of casuals will be the last ones advertised for in the usual way and that future casuals will be drawn from the Uni ranks. No real substance to this, just something I heard on the road

Just got it guys - Regional Sponsored Degree Program - sorry - really am a Really Sulky Dense Paramedic!

What threw me a bit was the talk about SAAS being a RTO and upskilling volunteers, and figured you were talking about the quality of Cert II/IV stuff.  RSDP is run by a different set of boffins isn't it?  I have not had anything to do with Volunteer Training for a few years but would not be surprised if the AQTF auditors found a few things wanting.

Quote.....Considering the amount of problem SAAS had with their last RTO audit, and I'm sure you have read the comments in the RDSP review, I'm not sure I would be holding them up as any shining light.

Do tell Bored, I have long had my suspicions about the quality of vollee education and the manipulation of AQTF paperwork to fit the course (rather than the other way round).  Where can we read of said shortcomings? (don't know what "RDSP" is - unless it is ""Real Dense Sulky Paramedic") - and more important - has SAAS done anything about them?

Who knows, could be someone doing overtime as Lima Sierra, or a car they were loaned by Fleet whilst their jetpack was being repaired  :-D,  Saas is a fluid and constantly evolving animal.

I believe the Territory is now becoming the vehicle of choice for many SAAS roles, Clinical Support Officers for instance (and some RTL's)currently drive Holden sports wagons but will eventually change over to the Territory, so it will be a little harder to tell who is who by the car they drive.

Reckon Bill has a big hat rack in the boot and at each job he decides which one to wear - Medstar, Army, SAAS, Doctor, ARGG (All Round Good Guy).  Oh to be that talented

Call sign is Bariatric 75/195 - the truck is affectionately known as "Barry".  Two crew on during the day, with a single responder on at night.  The night guy drives the vehicle to the scene and does all the technical stuff, - with regular crews doing the grunt work.

Can't remember the exact figures, but workload has gone from 5 jobs a year to at least 10 per week in about ten years.

Some years ago they were designated "Mike Delta" and had a bit more of an on-road prescence.  Then in the ensuing years there were a few deck chair shuffles and name changes as the statewide team structure developed.

The latest is having a State Duty Manager residing in the EOC who is the magnet for all things "pear shaped" - with various team leaders (Lima Whiskey etc) doing the legwork on the road.  You may contact the SDM for things like jambing your ambulance in the Macca's drive thru, if you had a disagreement with the nurse at the local pre-mortuary facility - and any other trifling matter that you feel inclined. They also look after immediate staffing/workload issues, crib break complaints/coordination etc etc.

To my knowledge they would not leave their post to drive a command vehicle.  There was one particular SDM who was driving the "Command 2" checkered Kombi, but this seemed to be more like his personal ride (connected to other non SDM related projects) than anything to do with being State Duty Manager

These are just my observations from the road - and these are often quite different to how things really work, so please feel free to correct where my view differs from the SDM Duty Statement

Once heard a job go down in a supermarket at Glenelg for an unconscious collapse.  DR1 responded - saying he was in the next aisle! - Now that is dedication

Actually the incident WAS reported to AIMS - who said that they have had similar reports over the last few weeks (didn't say whether they were SAAS or privates).

And yep - SAAS personnel do the same (and worse), I guess the difference is that at least SAAS has specific guidelines regarding (VRE) infection control, we all know what these rules are - and it is up to us ambos to follow them. The poor soul I was talking about gave the impression that he thought VRE stood for "Very Recent Enema". - it was all a little embarrassing.

And no medboy, I was not watching from the comfort of a chair, neglecting my own patient or slacking off avoiding my next job - I was actually waiting for my patient to come down from the ward and started walking over to give the guy a hand to shift his patient.

It all comes down to professionalism and whether you would be happy for your elderly immuno-suppressed grandma with the leg ulcers to be the next person to lay on that stretcher.

What about the single operator ambulance that turned up at the RAH today, unloaded the patient and proceeded to the orderlies.

Orderly gowned up because the patient was VRE and transferred the patient.  Private ambo went to hang up the patslide and was told it needed to be wiped down - orderly received strange look from Mr P.A.

Private Ambo was then called away to another job, grabbed the stretcher, - no clean or even so much as a a brief wipe down - just a fresh sheet on top and off he went.

Swell

Crash wasn't too far from the mark with his toungue in cheek comment about SAAS despatching RDNS and other services, - ever wonder what mental health and AIMs are doing in the EOC???

Now that SAAS is part of the happy family at SA Health, and are competing for a slice of the funding, we have to start cutting out our own little niche and prove what a "worthy and useful" child we are. Just running an effective ambulance service will no longer be sufficient - we have to find new things to attract attention and the bucks, and our despatch/communications "expertise" is something we can sell.

Speaking of bucks, ever wonder why there was an article in SAAS Scene encouraging (?? ordering) ambos to mark casecards as "Treat Not Transport" rather than "Ambulance Not Required".  Apparently, rolling up to a job, looking at the patient and listening to him/her telling you that they will make their own way to hospital constitutes "treatment".

Could it have anything to do with inflating the "TNT" stats supplied to Health, proving that SAAS is doing its bit to stop the flood of cases arriving at the ED departments?  After all, that was one of the prime reasons for setting up the ECP scheme wasn't it?.

Nah - that is way to cynical.

Hi all,

Just got around to reading this thread.

Firstly, I don't think you will find it written anywhere that PTS/ESS staff have to work a minimum of 160 hours per year to maintain accreditation - because there is no accreditation, no CDP's no nothing!! - Well, that is not quite true, did have one a couple of years ago.

Secondly, there are plenty of managers who squeeze themselves into their uniform and call themselves paramedics - even though the last clinical thing they did was to put a bandaid on their grandkids teddybear.  It should be automatic accreditation for everyone, no tick on the sheet, no wear the uniform.

Having made that last statement might I add that I don't think that qualifications or hours spent in the truck are the main things that make a good ambo.  I know plenty of career ambos with years of experience who are clinically incompetent, degree carrying paramedics who know all the correct terminology but don't know which end of the patient to look at first.  I also know vollees without any (non SAAS) clinical background and who only attend one job per month who I would literally trust with my life.

It all comes down to knowing the basics, knowing your limitations, keeping a cool head, being a good detective with regards to scene and history and knowing when to call for advice and backup. They are the ones who come back from a job muttering, "The hospital said it appeared to be unstable angina" and then disappear into the world of Google or the volume on cardiac conditions to find out more on the subject.