Does anyone have a list of what Bombers the CFS has hired for this season, where they will be stationed and what capacity specs they have?
Are there any new, bigger, better, faster ones?
I don't think they have even let the contract yet.....!
Just guessing we will have similar planes to last year - if what CFS hired for last Wednesday is anything to go by....
Pip
From news reports the other night there will be five aircraft being retrofitted from cropdusters to bombers this fire season plus Heliair :-D
It appears from todays fires that the helitankers are back.
If past years are anything to go on - for the primary Mt Lofty response zone there will be AirTractor 802's or similar with 3000ltr water capacity with the capability of on board foam induction and computer controlled release doors.
Historically the SE has had slightly different, as Forestry has a bomber on their contract and I also believe one may be heading to the West Coast, for the peak season.
Haven't heard [/i]officially[/i] when the contract starts or exactly what is in it!
i think they run 602s in the south east..... :?
Sounds about right and i think they ran a 502 on EP last year.
Heres one to look at:
http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/whyst.html
Apparently they can drop from between 400 and 800 feet (thats between 120 and 250 mtrs) and carry 24000 gallons (or approximately 110,000 litres) - from their web site the only airport they could use near adelaide would be Edinborough - BUT it would be interesting to see!
now that is one awesome bomber - wouldnt like to be hit by the load though
Plus it would save having to even roll fire trucks or NPWSA QAV's to the fire as it would kill the fire in an instant with 24000 gallons :lol:
Quote from: oz fire on October 13, 2006, 09:01:20 AM
Heres one to look at:
http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/whyst.html
Apparently they can drop from between 400 and 800 feet (thats between 120 and 250 mtrs) and carry 24000 gallons (or approximately 110,000 litres) - from their web site the only airport they could use near adelaide would be Edinborough - BUT it would be interesting to see!
Yeh but how long to refill the aircraft & would we have enough water to fill it without drying the fire mains for a few kilometres around the airport.
Maybe it could be an interesting BWC - eg. all CFS trucks respond to airport to refill water....110,000 litres divided by 3000 litres per truck = 36 CFS truck refils. :evil:
however the airport is most likely to be a long way from any fire that the CFS go to.
Speaking of bombers I wish the media would stop talking to the crop duster idiot from the West Coast who bags the CFS everytime there is a fire there. He is not a nominated contractor to the CFS and likes to sh**can them . He did it the other day and he did it last year after the Black Tuesday fires cos no one called him. I know his name but wont mention it here.
Here is a pic of the South East Water Bombers from last season.
here is another shot
Quote from: bajdas on October 13, 2006, 09:33:27 AM
Quote from: oz fire on October 13, 2006, 09:01:20 AM
Yeh but how long to refill the aircraft & would we have enough water to fill it without drying the fire mains for a few kilometres around the airport.
Maybe it could be an interesting BWC - eg. all CFS trucks respond to airport to refill water....110,000 litres divided by 3000 litres per truck = 36 CFS truck refils. :evil:
From their info - they bring everthing with them - including floating collar dams, tankers, support infrastructure and alike - once unloaded they then inflate the storage tanks in the aircraft.
Takes them 20 mins to fill
Imagine the page for that
SHQ:*CFSRES:PARA,LIGHT,BAROSSA,EAST TORRENS,LOFTY,STURT GROUPS RESPOND STRIKE TEAM EDINBURGH AIRPORT REFILL BOMBER :lol:
And the plane is only allowed one drop...after that, the state has no more water left.... :-o
Pip
With all the media coverage this week about Elvis/sky crane what do people think should we or should we not???? Look I think it would be great but in some part's of the state where would it refill and if you had to truck in water for it where would you get the water from?????.
Don't get me wrong people air support is great but it is still the job of ground crews to put the fire out and in doing so to make sure its blacked out all the way. Its a shame that the public don't have a good understanding of bombers may be its time the CFS did a public campaign about the role of bombers and ground crews....
Unfortunately these days, the budget must be taken into account - do we get one very expensive chopper (with a running cost of $11,000 per hour ) plus the cost of actually hiring it......or do we spend the same amount of money, but have more than 1 bomber / chopper available?
CFS, like all Government departments has to work smarter with with their money..... :-)
The flexibility of many bombers is possibly more useful than one large one. of coure it depends on the fire. ie. in the US with the large forrest and crown fires big bombers like the 747 and skycrane are probarly more useful than the smaler types we use.
Definitely better in SA to have many smaller aircraft than one big one. That is the only way you can say have one in Lincoln, a couple in the Hills and a couple in the South East. Not to mention when you may get a campaign fire somewhere (like KI) and you commit one or more aircraft for consecutive days. Easy for people to say `Hey government spend more money on firefighting`. But harder to do and make the books balance. How many people do you hear whinging about paying their ESL now? Besdides if it went up.
I think CFS Budget would be better spent on another bomber rather than Elvis,we cant really justify the expense for it here, but in VIC and NSW sure.There is always an option to send it here if something similar to Sydney's fires happened here again.
Our bombers do a great job and compared to when we had no aerial support at Ash Wednesday and ageing appliances we have definitely come up in the world :-D
In tight spots like the hills the large airplanes would be useless as they wouldnt be able to access the fire in gullies like the air tractors do.
I was reading the Advertiser editorials/talk back page yesterday and there was a reader who posted a talk bac article in there about South Australia being able to afford a Elvis
Article from yesterdays paper
State Can afford an Elvis
So the State Government is too stingy to purchase an Elvis helicopter? ("Elvis will help concedes CFS",The Advertiser,yesterday).
Considering the millions raked that it has raked in from the emergency services levy,there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to have brought several helicopters
If the State Government does not want to spend the emergency services levy on emergency services,maybe it is time for the levy to end.
Anyone else agree with what this person is saying :?
I completely disagree. The CFS is already spending more than $2.38 million on aerial support each year... How about we employ some engineers to design the next fleet of trucks instead of getting a new over-sized chopper? (As much as it would be an awesome asset...;))
Quote from: Robert34 on October 22, 2006, 07:54:49 PM
I was reading the Advertiser editorials/talk back page yesterday and there was a reader who posted a talk bac article in there about South Australia being able to afford a Elvis
Article from yesterdays paper
State Can afford an Elvis
So the State Government is too stingy to purchase an Elvis helicopter? ("Elvis will help concedes CFS",The Advertiser,yesterday).
Considering the millions raked that it has raked in from the emergency services levy,there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to have brought several helicopters
If the State Government does not want to spend the emergency services levy on emergency services,maybe it is time for the levy to end.
Anyone else agree with what this person is saying :?
This person has no idea about the levy, and nor do you by the looks of it. The ESL goes to fund the MFS, CFS, SES , Surf Life Saving, Vol. Marine rescue etc. Its all very well and good to say but the ESL can be used to buy BIG helicopters! But think of all the thing on which it already being spent, PPE, training, stations, appliances etc etc.
Plus, we don't need the big helicopters...
I think you may see a drop in the use of bombers in some areas over the next few years due to the area not having any water and the time it takes to bring water into areas for use by the bombers will mean that a good running fire will turn into a better running fire... May have to use more mixing plants......
Quote from: ath on October 13, 2006, 02:54:07 PM
Speaking of bombers I wish the media would stop talking to the crop duster idiot from the West Coast who bags the CFS everytime there is a fire there. He is not a nominated contractor to the CFS and likes to sh**can them . He did it the other day and he did it last year after the Black Tuesday fires cos no one called him. I know his name but wont mention it here.
Be careful ath...the media love to also misquote him..don't get me wrong, he should learn to shut his mouth and not speak to them...but for your info...he does have a "call when required" agreement...there is much more to this story than it appears...he is also a CFS member and contributes the use of his planes at no cost OFTEN...you have got to love the media.. :wink:
Quote from: CFS_Firey on October 07, 2006, 12:21:20 AM
Does anyone have a list of what Bombers the CFS has hired for this season, where they will be stationed and what capacity specs they have?
Are there any new, bigger, better, faster ones?
1922914 17:24:07 24-10-06 SHQ: BOMBERS 581, 582 AND ALL SE AIR CREW CAN STAND DOWN. FROM R5 COMMANDER..
i dont think the contracts have begun yet, although there have been a combination of koalas, 502s and 802s being used lately
I would prefer to have 5 bombers and the state covered than share 1 Elvis between us all...on a bad day, we might start with 2 bombers on EP and then if there's a problem somewhere else and we have a change thru..they can then respond elsewhere..
We had a bomber sitting in Naracoorte late afternoon on Tuesday(24/10) have not seen that in a while....
Quote from: CaptCom on October 25, 2006, 08:14:18 AM
I would prefer to have 5 bombers and the state covered than share 1 Elvis between us all...on a bad day, we might start with 2 bombers on EP and then if there's a problem somewhere else and we have a change thru..they can then respond elsewhere..
This is true....but in the case of where we need more bombers for some reason (campaign fires etc) we have access to the skycranes under the Federal Government Aviation Fire Bombing scheme or what ever it is called.
If i flew cropdusters for a living i'd certainly wouldnt bag the CFS for failing to page me to every big fire as i would be putting my name down for the bombing contract well before the fire season even starts
Quote from: Robert34 on October 25, 2006, 07:10:43 PM
If i flew cropdusters for a living i'd certainly wouldnt bag the CFS for failing to page me to every big fire as i would be putting my name down for the bombing contract well before the fire season even starts
One lonley crop duster would not even scratch the surface of the CFS contract.
Need to bear in mind that the agricultural aircraft that CFS use, are converted during summer, specifically for fire fighting operations - the sprays are removed and special computer controlled bomber doors fitted - most ag sprayers don't have these, not the money to invest in them.
I say congrats to our bomber pilots and to AMR (the contractor) for the excellent work they have done and do for us and the state - they do things and go places that most pilots would never dream of doing and they are committed to helping us and making our lives easier - not just geting good $$$$$
Quote from: Robert34 on October 25, 2006, 07:10:43 PM
If i flew cropdusters for a living i'd certainly wouldnt bag the CFS for failing to page me to every big fire as i would be putting my name down for the bombing contract well before the fire season even starts
As I said to Ath's comments...there is a whole lot more to the situation than you know...and the media are to blame for the misconceptions...there are insurance issues etc...it's not that simple...and AMR have a very strong hold over the contracts...
You have to love the media they only like to home in on one thing you say or do with out report the whole story....
Quote from: CaptCom on October 26, 2006, 09:02:43 AM
As I said to Ath's comments...there is a whole lot more to the situation than you know...and the media are to blame for the misconceptions...there are insurance issues etc...it's not that simple...and AMR have a very strong hold over the contracts...
[/quote]
Not sure if AMR have a strong hold - but rather that AMR are the only provider that can meet the contract requirements - big difference. Plus AMR have committed HUGE $$$$ to their equipment and aircraft, to meet the CFS contract requirements, from which we all benefit
Heres a news article i found while looking on the Yahoo7 homepage today
Elvis helicopter in Sydney on Sunday
Elvis the fire bombing helicopter will arrive in Australia on Sunday and this time he is bringing a mate.
Shania will arrive in Sydney on Sunday alongside Elvis - the helicopters are being brought to Australia aboard a Russian Antonov air freighter.
The two key tools in this summer's fight against bushfires will be given a quick check over once they arrive before flying directly to their bases in Sydney and Melbourne.
Local Government Minister Jim Lloyd said in a statement he was sure all Australians would welcome the extra protection the aircraft would provide to communities.
"Part of the Australian government's funding package for aerial firefighting is being used to assist the states and territories with the high costs of having such effective heavy aircraft in Australia during this summer," Mr Lloyd said
Too bad Elvis the fire bombing helicopter didnt bring a 3rd mate along so it could be based in Adelaide :-D
Elvis, Shania???
Maybe Adelaide will get Budgie the little helicopter.
Robert:wake up air supportr may help with fire suppression but ground crews still put the fire out and tell me where would we fill it up as there is not much water around.....
Wouldnt mind seeing a picture of that air freighter, it must be filtered huge.
You are right blinky we dont have much water around to support one of those giants :wink: but arent they designed to use sea water as well :?
Ryan it sounds like you have too much spare time and watch Budgie The Little Helicopter on ABC :lol: :lol: :lol:
The other major consideration we have here in SA is money......
Some recent figures being bandied around put the price of actually getting one of the aircranes based here (presumably for the fire season) is around $2.5 milllion. Then you have to run the thing - at a cost of $11,000 per hour.
Bearing in mind, the whole Aerial fire fighting budget for the CFS, for the whole year is $2.5 million.... which option are you going to choose?
Both NSW & Victoria have much higher populations, and as a state, a much bigger budget to spend...
We may all ask "what price a life?' but the reality is the CFS (and the state) only have a certain amount of money to go round.....
Pip
Just base it at Goolwa and see how fast we can drain the Murray :lol:
Now where could be put it at GOOLWA?????? I know that satelite station I was talking about :mrgreen:
At the Airport, or just keep it on the oval i know how much the community sporting clubs like the rescue choppers landing there
Or even better base it at the RAAF airport :wink:
Quote from: 5271rescue on October 28, 2006, 02:19:19 PM
Robert:wake up air supportr may help with fire suppression but ground crews still put the fire out and tell me where would we fill it up as there is not much water around.....
Blue Lake :-P