i woukd be interested to know other stations stats as in call type...
for instance our station has done 7 jobs so far this month (february) and 5 have been vehicle accidents (i had a chance to be the first person to use one of the oxy sets on a casualty last week, weve taken it of the truck a fair few times, but had to use it for the first time last week (beat the ambulance to the job by about 8minutes))
Hi Coro,
Did your Brigade purchase the O2 set or are you part of a first responders group?
Adam
no we are not first responders.
all of our groups appliances carry O2 sets, there intended use being for firefighters who are injured or sufering from smoke inhalation, however we can also use them on members of the public.
Our Call Stats Are Available Here.
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/Station_Display.asp?Service_Code=SACFS&Station_Code=ALDB
Doesn't Have This Years, However Gives You A Good Idea Of The Main Job's We Get.
We have been to more MVA's/fixed alarms this month than last we have had 10 jobs so far this month and have done 105 jobs for the year to date.
I would like to know coro how your group got the o2 on your appliances ?
as we have been trying to get it for awhile and have been informed it is not part of CFS gear,mind you we are RCR/HAZ/STRUC,and still the reply was no.........
Sturt group Bill, a law unto themselves, and CFS won't touch them!!
Well, before you start a fight :twisted:
Well its true, who else could get away with what they do.....
I don't know about specific CFS policy but there are other groups and appliances carrying O2.
Possibly there are groups that are very proactive, it might be worthwhile asking them how they went about it. Please word comments to prevent inflaming a thread.
ITs all fine to be proactive, but, we have SOP's and fireground practices, people just can't do what they like, I think we should do a lot of things, but I still stick within my SOP's and fireground practices.
In regards to the O2, are all people that use it qualified to use it or is it just a case of whoever does whatever.
everyone who uses O2 in our brigade must be qualified for advanced resuscitation, which is a CFS accredited course. O2 delivery isn't rocket science, and it's benefits will always overcome any downfalls (you can take that as a medical absolute). Particularly in Trauma and any burns or respiratory emergency.
I would personally like to see O2 on any appliance with BA.
Whole group carrying O2 :shock:
How'd they manage that!!!!
As GT said, they're a very pro-active group with lots of money.
I enquired about purchasing O2 for our appliance recently and was told by Region 1 that the rollout of a number of O2 kits for all RCR brigades in the Region had been put on hold, once that is sorted out there may be an opportunity for other brigades to also carry a kit.
So really, one group can have a set for every single brigade. However, other groups miss out on having O2 all together.....??
I reckon, the group with a set for each brigade, start to hand a few out to those groups that don't have the gear!
There must be two rules in the CFS one for the region close to the city and one for those in the country? Why stop the role out or was it stopped because all region one RCR brigades have it?? The cfs is responding more to calls for help with SAAS and in many cases are getting there before SAAS, I for one would like to see O2 on all appliances not just those in RCR brigades as long as people have done the training are willing to help what is the problem??
Remember the fire service does more than put wet stuff on the red stuff.
Quote from: rescue5271Remember the fire service does more than put wet stuff on the red stuff.
Thats right... we also find them hot, and leave them wet :P
Quote from: rescue5271...or was it stopped because all region one RCR brigades have it?? ...
Stirling still doesn't have O
2 either, and I don't know of any other Brigades in our group (mount lofty) that carry it, so thats at least 2 RCR brigades in region 1 that still don't have O
2...
on a side issue..... to use O2, advanced resus. is required...
Try getting on a course if your not an instructor in something!
If a brigade/group has enough nouse and/or money to get the gear, then good on 'em. However, I would hope they didnt complain when other brigades get the stuff issued out by region/state....
Is a discussion that will never be solved, as human nature has proven over the years..... think of it like "keeping up with the jones'...." We'll never be happy unless we have what the next person does, and likewise, will always want something better...
Vicious circle isnt it....
sturt group put o2 sets on every appliance because they had the money at the time and it was of benefit to the safety of firefighters and a benefit to the public also.
i dont agree with evrything that the group does and it does seem to me a lot of the time that they do what they like a lot of the time, which some of the brigades in the group are not at all happy with.
but at the end of the day i think it is more important to keep ourselves safe. and having o2 on every truck does help. plus someone made a comment about if every truck in sturt group has o2 then it should be taken away from the group and spread out between other brigades??
i think this is a fairl.
if a firefighter needs o2, then im pretty sure it'll be at a grassfire, and how often do you take a rescue truck to a grassfire??? what benefit would it be to have it at all?
Ok, said my piece about the O2....
Now has anyone else found their response numbers are up this year????
We are a relatively quite(ish) brigade compared with some, having ~70 calls a year. However we're up by around 20 calls so far this year, (significant in our eyes at least)....
So, is it just a sign of our area "growing" or is this a trend across the state?
What kind of calls have had an increase??
See, you may sit on (For Example) 85 calls, for 10 years... One year there is a night of freak storm and wind behaviour, making 25 calls in the one night....
Your brigade totals for that year are 110 calls.... Although doesn't necassarilly mean the area is growing etc..
My brigade is down this year, as are quite a few from what some have told me...
The easiest way to tell, is see what calls have increased, and work out why... EG - The freak storm, possibly an additional 20 alarms, maybe 20 MVA's, meaning that you have either more traffic, or more careless drivers.
:)
Ah, now if we had anything like that, i wouldnt be quite so surprised. We've had our fair share of storms and flooding in the past. Cant say its an increase in any one particular area...... just a general increase......
Anyways, just seeing if it was/is a generalised trend for the service.....
Our call numbers are up as well... I don't know what jobs have pushed the numbers up, (Although MVA is most likely), we haven't had any freak storms either... we are now above our total for last year...
(We've done about 280 calls so far this year, and we got about 280 last year... so with a month and a half to go, we'll end up with a much higher call tally) :shock:
Quote from: Good timesITs all fine to be proactive, but, we have SOP's and fireground practices, people just can't do what they like, I think we should do a lot of things, but I still stick within my SOP's and fireground practices.
In regards to the O2, are all people that use it qualified to use it or is it just a case of whoever does whatever.
every brigade has around 10 members trained BY the CFS to use medical oxygen, they are the only ones allowed to use it..
"administer oxygen in an emergency situation" is a recognised CFS course and currently being conducted at STC regularly
QuoteThere must be two rules in the CFS one for the region close to the city and one for those in the country? Why stop the role out or was it stopped because all region one RCR brigades have it?? The cfs is responding more to calls for help with SAAS and in many cases are getting there before SAAS, I for one would like to see O2 on all appliances not just those in RCR brigades as long as people have done the training are willing to help what is the problem??
Remember the fire service does more than put wet stuff on the red stuff.
In regards to the city region getting better treatment, I think those days are gone, I have seen Naracoorte's fleet, they are not doing to badly, you are refering to the old days of council funding, thats when it was out of whack, but the group you are refering to is a rule unto themself, and no one can defend that, because its true.
Quote
every brigade has around 10 members trained BY the CFS to use medical oxygen, they are the only ones allowed to use it..
They do???? Thats news to me!!!! I think your pulling our legs(no offence).... no-one from our area is - exept the couple of BA instructors we have in the group....
Oxy Sets.
If Your On The Fire Ground & You Need Oxy, Whats Wrong With Just A Normal BA Set Minus Cleaning, Could There be Some Type Of Attachment That Could Be Made Or Does The Oxy Have Other Properties?
A Breathing apparatus contains filtered dry breathing air not oxygen. Oxygen therapy is increasing the concentration of oxygen in your blood and this can only be achieved by breathing oxygen not plain air.
Thanks For Clearing That Up
How many L p/m of oxygen is administered to patients by the Fire Fighter? (EG - IF there are any OXY Admin. trained persons on this forum, how many litres per min. of oxygen were you told you should administer?)
Just wondering.... (As it is one of the most crucial parts to administering oxygen).
Should be as follows:
Nasal Cannula: 1-3LPM
Simple Face Mask: no less than 8lpm
Bag and Mask (For Resus): 25Lpm
Hope this is what you need
Having people trained in O2 is not a huge issue! If you carry the equipment, then CFS has a duty of care to provide the training - and they will. If your getting no joy through your Group Training officer, try the Region, failingl that try the State Training Centre - they will negotiate with the Region.
Funny thought though - R1 brigades have it all - I'm aware of PPV fans, atmospheric monitoring equipment, vertical rescue equipment, converted milk tankers, salvage pumps, floating pumps, portable light towers....... the list goes on and on that are in brigades outisde R1 - and how did they get these "EXTRA' pieces of equipment - they were resourceful - identified the need, organised a method of getting the funds and then purchased the equipment - very clever really and no different than a group in R1 who carry O2 equipment on 1 appliance in each station.
If you look at the stats- with the diverse number of jobs that we are all attending these days - couldn't we all do with O2 equipment, if for nothing more than to help our fellow fire fighters - NOW there is something to groan about!!!
hear hear!!!
havent heard of a cfs brigade with atmospheric monitoring equipment though... except for burnside i guess, and whats the deal with vertical rescue, im aware that naracoorte are trained in it (???) but surely its an SES responsibilitie
Quote from: JamesGar on May 19, 2005, 08:58:43 AM
Should be as follows:
Nasal Cannula: 1-3LPM
Simple Face Mask: no less than 8lpm
Bag and Mask (For Resus): 25Lpm
Hope this is what you need
Cheers mate.
Quoteand whats the deal with vertical rescue, im aware that naracoorte are trained in it () but surely its an SES responsibilitie
There is no SES within any reasonable time frame, and if an incident is time critical then I don't think its appropriate to be responding the SES to Naracoorte just because they are supposed to be the one's that do that work. Also I really can't see a reason to start up another emergency service when its hard enough to staff what we have, and all the issues SES/CFS towns have I wouldn't want to put my worst enemy through that sort of crap!
Its almost that time of year again, everyone make sure you have all your paperwork in order for the end of year AIRS summary.
So what are peoples total call summaries for this year ?
my station call stats are around 401 this year sofar.
Quote from: FIRETRUCK on May 22, 2005, 05:59:53 PM
and whats the deal with vertical rescue, I'm aware that Naracoorte are trained in it (???) but surely its an SES responsibility
Stirling is also rope rescue trained, although vertical rescue requires more specialist equipment, for which we respond MFS or the STAR Force, rather than SES...
Whats the reasoning behing that CFS_firey??
Quote from: CFS_firey on August 01, 2005, 02:35:22 PM
Quote from: FIRETRUCK on May 22, 2005, 05:59:53 PM
and whats the deal with vertical rescue, I'm aware that Naracoorte are trained in it (???) but surely its an SES responsibility
Stirling is also rope rescue trained, although vertical rescue requires more specialist equipment, for which we respond MFS or the STAR Force, rather than SES...
im sorry.... but what the???
vertical rescue is an SES responsibility around stirling area, however.. starforce will assist them if required.. there is no way that it is a SAMFS role.
**sorry**
there is no way that it is a SAMFS role in your area..
I believe Star Force are a combattive authority over SES at a Rope Rescue, if they attend.
Theoretically SES is a sub-division of SAPOL (or at least it used to be).
That aside though.... it still stands to be asked.... if it is an SES role for the area, why wouldnt you use them?
Used to be - being the correct statement!
SES is now a recognised Emergency Service in it's own right!
They are as stand alone as CFS or MFS - but all report to Big Brother - SAFECOM ....... who's CEO is current also the SES CEO :evil:
As for rope rescue - let those with the training do it - be it SES (for the majority of the state), SAPol under extreme or close to Adelaide circumstances or MFS (Small part) or CFS (small part).
One day we will be be 'competent' - yes competent, not just "know about it" and "attended training on it once" but competent in our own roles, then we may look at acquiring other skills 8-)
I know thats a bit radical - but it aint rocket science
isthis part of the plan to take over the SES completely ?? personally i dont think we should be doing vertical rescue/confined space/rope rescue etc... we are a fire service, and no.. i dont want to make it seem like we are just the old bushfire brigades. but weve already poached RCR from a lot of SES units, whats the point of doubling resources in so many areas?.
:-D
To help keep things organised and easy to naviagate can we please keep threads on topic. If you wish to pose an unrelated question or thought, please start a new topic.
This thread started as station stats, has discussed 02 and now is onto rope rescue.
Cheers :-D
If people want to keep discussing Rope rescue, start a new thread, but I'll just answer the questions already in this thread:
The times I were referring to when we responded with MFS and the STAR force were because they had specialized equipment we needed. (IE we used the MFS bronto for a high re-directional). It wasn't a deliberate attempt to exclude the SES, they just didn't have what we needed.
I may be wrong here, so correct me if I am, I've been told the local SES brigade has a long response time, and as we are a Rope rescue brigade, Why not respond us? We might be able to get the casualty out before the SES arrive from Mount Barker, and I'm sure all the SAAS care about is getting the casualty out - not who does it.
Quote from: CFS_firey on August 02, 2005, 03:32:09 PM
I may be wrong here, so correct me if I am, I've been told the local SES brigade has a long response time, and as we are a Rope rescue brigade, Why not respond us? We might be able to get the casualty out before the SES arrive from Mount Barker, and I'm sure all the SAAS care about is getting the casualty out - not who does it.
thats not the point CFS_Firey... SES crews used to get in station as quick as CFS crews.. but why should they bother when all "life-threatening" jobs have been poached from them? the only rescue CFS should really be doing/focusing on is road crash.
also.. just wondering, have your crew been actually trained in vertical rescue and rope rescue?
Quote from: firetruck on August 02, 2005, 07:58:49 PM
thats not the point CFS_Firey... SES crews used to get in station as quick as CFS crews.. but why should they bother when all "life-threatening" jobs have been poached from them? the only rescue CFS should really be doing/focusing on is road crash.
also.. just wondering, have your crew been actually trained in vertical rescue and rope rescue?
I can see your point and agree that the SES should be given more credit, and used more often, but I can't see a reason to get them out of bed, when we can do it... (Unless it's a tree down at 4am :-P)
As for training, we have are trained in "Participate in a rope Rescue operation" (the basics of rope rescue) and "High angle stretcher Rescue", which is high angle, not vertical
Quote from: CFS_firey on August 03, 2005, 12:35:30 AM
I can see your point and agree that the SES should be given more credit, and used more often, but I can't see a reason to get them out of bed, when we can do it... (Unless it's a tree down at 4am :-P)
why bother getting you out of bed... to do a job that you havent got all the tools for?
what specialised rope rescue gear do you carry?
why bother getting you out of bed... to do a job that you haven't got all the tools for?
I was referring to responding them to incidents which we are already attending because its their job
what specialized rope rescue gear do you carry?[/b]
We carry everything needed for a high angle rescue - Stokes Litter, Lowering devices, Haul safe (for raising), Belay setups, plenty of rope, and harnesses etc.
The only type of rope rescue incidents we need help with are vertical rescue (ie, someone fallen down a mine shaft, or into an empty sewage pond). In these situations, the only extra equipment needed is a device to redirect the rope above the hole...
By the sounds of this particular job maybe s.e.s should have been responded for backup, it can't hurt.
We had a job a few years ago that saas called us to help carry an injured patient out of a gorge, s.e.s went to the media because they thought it was thier job, so now we just respond them to everything and if they get a stop thats their bad luck.
Poached is a very strong word! I am aware of many cases where another service has taken a function that was "once" performed by SES, however locally the SES either didn't want to continue with the skill, didn't have the membership, couldn't respond in an appriopriate time frame or the community decided that the two services were the same peole and hence placed the majority of the primary/initial response equipment with the fire service.
As for duplication - this affects all services - EVERY service - and coverers everthing from RCR, Hazmat, Vertical Recuse, Confined space, CBR, USAR the list goes on and on (why do SES have pumps - when they want to do resuce - sand bags would do - fire service has pumps???? - sorry devils question - but duplication and it's about stats!!!!)
It's all about STATS - maybe one day someone will overlook the stats and look at value to the community and workload on the emeregcy service teams :-D
Firetruck I'm sure you can very easily find this out!
Poke me when that day arrives..... :-D :lol:
dont take it as gospel, but im pretty sureSES have pumps, to pump out basements at flooding jobs.
Interesting that although many list members seem to be strong advocates of one fire service in this state (ie: MFS/CFS amalgamation) that they seem to differentiate with the SES. Surely one single fire/rescue response agency for the state would be the go, keeping in line with this thinking.
(Note that I personally remain unconvinced that that the fire/emergency services or the community would be better off under a single banner for many off thread reasons).
I think peoples views differ, as the SES have no role in Fire, or Fire related rescue at all. Thus why amalgamation with the Fire Services would be rather unusual.
I think if everybody takes a step back and look and some broader issues one service to provide all emergency services in this state wouldn't be that difficult.
There is a significant replication of services provided in all MFS, CFS and SES. Not only in primary response roles, but in operational and non operational roles. This includes Staff like VSO, Regional Officers and Training officers.
A one service for all doesn't mean that to be in the, lets say civil response (SES) that you'd have to be fire trained, vica versa, to be in the fire service you have to have training in Search and Rescue, USAR and Flood Mitigation. If you look closely, in a lot of areas throughout SA a lot of people already volunteer in colocated SES/CFS brigades/unit. Most members at Yankalilla already carry out both role, I believe this is also the case in Strathalbyn and many other areas.
It would be an easy transition and the money saved for no longer replicating staff role and equipment could be placed easily back to the volunteers, with improved equipment, training, support, etc.
I don't see whats so hard about it!
Quote from: strikeathird on August 10, 2005, 10:16:32 AM
I think peoples views differ, as the SES have no role in Fire, or Fire related rescue at all. Thus why amalgamation with the Fire Services would be rather unusual.
I'm not sure -
I think the more unusual thing is to have an SES?
I don't think, for example, the LAFD are assisted by an SES type agency? I think many fire services around the world handle all fire/rescue type responses? (Including paramedics but let's not go there!)
Interesting thought - one service and reduction in staff costs!
ESAU and then Safecomm were introduced to reduce the staff and hence wages and on costs of duplication across three services! Surprisingly though, ESAU and now Safecomm has higher staff numbers and therefore wages and all on-costs than the original ones when each staff maintained those services individually.
Operationally we are different ... however as has been stated we could provide other services with members transitioning between services/functions.
For this to occur, we must also consider medical assistance/first responder - witnessed this several weeks ago interstate and the fire service arrived 12 minutes before the medical service and this was a Tuesday night, 5 km from the CBD!
Internationally singular services provide that of many here, however we would loose a percentage of our members and as stated before, how can we perform additional roles until we are competent in all of our current ones - and that ain't happening for a long time!
I've started a new topic about when the CFS needs the SES: http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&?topic=213
Perhaps there should be another one discussing a combined service?
Quote from: kat on August 10, 2005, 01:41:25 PM
Quote from: strikeathird on August 10, 2005, 10:16:32 AM
I think peoples views differ, as the SES have no role in Fire, or Fire related rescue at all. Thus why amalgamation with the Fire Services would be rather unusual.
I'm not sure - I think the more unusual thing is to have an SES?
I don't think, for example, the LAFD are assisted by an SES type agency? I think many fire services around the world handle all fire/rescue type responses? (Including paramedics but let's not go there!)
I agree, I believe the Fire Service could handle it all. The only thing I could think of where the need might be apparent, would be MAJOR storm, or natural disaster typer responses, where damage is so far spread, the extra manpower is required.
New thread created here:
http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=214.0
Discussion related to the combining of services... Lets try not to digress on this topic much more....
Back on to the station stats topic, how are peoples call rates going so far? Below, same or above last year at this stage of the year?
We;ve clocked up 30 or 31 so far. Been really quiet actually, but had 8 calls in the last week.
Queitly motoring along on 78 after 2 calls yesterday
Round the 50 mark.
We are up to 24 its been very quite but we have had two scrub fires in one day about 3 hours apart and that is not good...
26