Gday Folks,
Have been hearing rumours about new appliances in the future will be 24's again 24P/24.
Anyone able to confirm/squash this rumour?
Camo
Knowing the cfs they will roll out a 24F (24 Fireking). These three prototypes will be issued to urban brigades as a Rescue/Pumper. They will be 4wheel drive, with two lockers, not enough water, and a faulty pump.
Meanwhile, rural brigades will be issued with brand new Scanias...
Yep that about sounds spot on... :lol:
Don't forget about a Bronto Skylift going to Kalangadoo! :-D
Cheers!
hey, don't talk about kalangadoo or medevac will cry again! :wink:
I thought they were phasing out 24's/24p's for 34/34p's across the board?
Thats what I heard and read.
Cant see why you would go back to 24`s when you can have a 34 or 34P on the same cab/chassis for a similar build up price. Who wouldnt want the extra thousand litres of water?
Quote from: probie_boy on June 04, 2006, 09:31:04 PM
hey, don't talk about kalangadoo or medevac will cry again! :wink:
:?
edit:
oh hang on... i get it.
Quote from: ath on June 05, 2006, 08:36:29 AM
Cant see why you would go back to 24`s when you can have a 34 or 34P on the same cab/chassis for a similar build up price. Who wouldnt want the extra thousand litres of water?
Yeah well i dont believe it either but the number of people that keep telling me this makes ya think. and some of these people are higher up in the group.
Quoteand some of these people are higher up in the group.
HAH - and since when has that made much differance? i remember all sorts of tales of fabulous new equipment, training and so forth that never eventuated...
It's a good idea to introduce the 24 & 24p back again. Due to the reasons that the 24&24P are still smaller appliance and not all areas e.g. Adelaide hills can not fit 34 & 34P's into driveways etc.
Dont forget that the 24/24P's would be on the same chassis as the 34/34P. So in the long run it wouldnt make any difference.
Maybe 24/P's are cheaper to make?
Mike, maybe they plan to put the 24's on a smaller chassis, because the 34 chassis are too big?
I agree with LtDan that especially in the Adelaide hills, 34's can be too big to fit up the driveways and with the length of some hills driveways, leaving the truck on the road and running hose down, isn't practical, especially for rural fires.
We gotta get away from this jap crap...
so PETE what should we get then???
the Swedish stuff :P
ahhhh,yes but would it be any good in our hot conditions????does not matter what we want its up to that man in H/Q with the big empty money bag what we get...
Quote from: CFS_firey on June 06, 2006, 03:46:01 PM
Maybe 24/P's are cheaper to make?
Mike, maybe they plan to put the 24's on a smaller chassis, because the 34 chassis are too big?
I agree with LtDan that especially in the Adelaide hills, 34's can be too big to fit up the driveways and with the length of some hills driveways, leaving the truck on the road and running hose down, isn't practical, especially for rural fires.
Maybe.... but if we go back to a smaller chassis, dont we then run the risk of re-introducing the weight problem? after all that is why they put them on the same chassis in the first place.....
Not fitting down driveways means better education for the public.... like "if the truck doesnt fit... we cant put your fire out! here is how big the truck is......"
maybe CFS should put something about the size of the trucks in their next advertising campaign?
on this topic, would it be worth it if the CFS trialled a 44 appliance? It could work in rural areas where a water supply is hard to come buy.
Quote from: Mike on June 07, 2006, 07:06:10 AM
Not fitting down driveways means better education for the public.... like "if the truck doesnt fit... we cant put your fire out! here is how big the truck is......"
maybe CFS should put something about the size of the trucks in their next advertising campaign?
that's a good point, how many brigades do that? We have driven around to some places in our area with the 24 truck and shown the residents that just having a gate wide enough is not enough. Eg. overhanging tree branches, no turn-around space, if you had a fire on that side of your house, we'd be driving over your garden beds here etc.
On the couple of occasions we have done it, it was quite an eye-opener for the residents. I don't think many people appreciate the size of the trucks (especially height).
Quote from: probie_boy on June 07, 2006, 11:21:29 AM
on this topic, would it be worth it if the CFS trialled a 44 appliance? It could work in rural areas where a water supply is hard to come buy.
minitanker...
if you add a tonne of water mate, then your gonna have to remove a tonne of something else from somewhere else.... but might make a nice little (or big) rural truck...
For a 44 Appliance to work in would probaly have to be built on a HR Chassis due to weight & a 4wd one of them would probaly cost a fortune.
Cameron
the new 3700 lt tankers the CFA have are a MR class and they are a little small in height and width when you have them side by side with the new 34 that CFS has...
Quote from: rescue5271 on June 07, 2006, 03:09:55 PM
the new 3700 lt tankers the CFA have are a MR class and they are a little small in height and width when you have them side by side with the new 34 that CFS has...
But do the CFA carry as much gear as us? or do they carry primarily rural stuff?
yeah they probably have the equivalent of our rural locker setup wouldn't they?
Rural set up with two CABA sets and spare cylinders...
How about creating a new urban 14 that doesn't require as much height?
This might however be ridiculous because any place that has enough small driveways would probably benefit from a full Pumper.
Get ready men the next generation of crap Hino's is on the way :-D
At least the Isuzu's have leg room :wink:
which type of Hino's have been purchased :?
Sitting at back of Moores at present will try to find out the model :-D
Since i am relatively new to CFS and enjoying it. please help me understand.
1)why does everone on this site tend to bag out 24p? I have never seen one in action
2)What is wrong with Hinos?
Quote from: safirey on September 23, 2006, 10:26:39 PM
Sitting at back of Moores at present will try to find out the model :-D
Any thing else of intrest visible at Moores
cherry pickers :-D
24P appliances do not have the pumping capacity of an urban or type 2 pumper and some brigades that used to run urban pumpers have had them replaced with 24P and 34P appliances and some are not happy about that. The rural hino appliances are pretty ordinary for pumping also but still serve a purpose as rural applaiances. The new 34`s on dual cab Hino chassis should be pretty good trucks if they are outfitted like last years build with the 500gpm pumps.
thanks 8-) ath
So really the problem is which brigades have been given 24p/34p not the trucks themselves.
24P SNAILS :-P
Turbo would help :-D
Do the Americans have any better technology for fire fighting and truck cab-chasis design ?
All of the appliances seem to be Japanese & European design. With the new 'free trade agreement' between USA & Australia, any good technology ?
I think the Forestry SA Fire Kings would make real good future CFS Appliances but we would have to paint them white :lol:
I believe the fire kings are made by the NSW based company ADI limited, not a US company.
Bajdas, I'm no expert but I think it has a lot to do with cost - Isuzu, Mitsubishi and Hino are simply cheaper.
The biggest American based fire appliance builders are American Lafrance, and they don't build dual cab rural fire trucks (Which is what the CFS is moving to). I suspect most other fire truck manufacturers also focus on pumpers and ladder trucks, rather than what the CFS is after...
As for fire fighting technology - I don't know if they have much they want to share. Many of our new tactics are coming from Europe (Compartment fire behavior training came out of Sweden, for example). The Americans seem to work far too unsafely for my liking :) (Run into a burning building with no water? No thanks!)
ADI in Bendigo(VIC) made the firekings as that is where the army get all there APC made....
We are not issolated in the fact that we fight wildfire. Many places around the world have to deal with fires much more intense and on a larger scale than we could ever encounter in Australia.
Some links to other trucks around. Some make sacfs trucks look pretty basic.
http://www.rosenbauer.com/index.php?USER=b4932d68a0ba39ddafa59641db1e48d0&node_id=6170 (http://www.rosenbauer.com/index.php?USER=b4932d68a0ba39ddafa59641db1e48d0&node_id=6170)
http://www.placerfire.net/ (http://www.placerfire.net/)
http://www.west-mark.com/prod_wildland15.cfm (http://www.west-mark.com/prod_wildland15.cfm)
http://www.ssfire.com/Apparatus/apparatusDetail.cfm?aid=8 (http://www.ssfire.com/Apparatus/apparatusDetail.cfm?aid=8)
http://www.piercemfg.com/new_deliveries/new_deliveries.cfm?type=wildland (http://www.piercemfg.com/new_deliveries/new_deliveries.cfm?type=wildland)
My guess is if we want to get serious maybe we need to look at CAFS for all our rural appliances.
Especially as water seems to be getting scarse!
Im not expert on CAFS but it seems to be the way to go in my eyes.
Quote from: Darius on June 07, 2006, 12:27:20 PM
Quote from: Mike on June 07, 2006, 07:06:10 AM
Not fitting down driveways means better education for the public.... like "if the truck doesnt fit... we cant put your fire out! here is how big the truck is......"
maybe CFS should put something about the size of the trucks in their next advertising campaign?
that's a good point, how many brigades do that? We have driven around to some places in our area with the 24 truck and shown the residents that just having a gate wide enough is not enough. Eg. overhanging tree branches, no turn-around space, if you had a fire on that side of your house, we'd be driving over your garden beds here etc.
On the couple of occasions we have done it, it was quite an eye-opener for the residents. I don't think many people appreciate the size of the trucks (especially height).
Maybe we can get Rags to do a media release about that very fact to increase the awareness about poor accessibility for our appliances prior to fire season starting :wink:
Quote from: Robert34 on October 09, 2006, 11:55:49 AM
I think the Forestry SA Fire Kings would make real good future CFS Appliances but we would have to paint them white :lol:
Bugga that - id prefer to drive a tank up the road before I drove one of them onto a fire ground - actually I would like to drive a tank ...... and I have already driven a fire king - nice for inside the forest (less than .1% of our work) so no good to CFS
Just looking at the new appliances that will be built this year.
1 34 will be auto (trial or just a lazy brigade? :-D )
All new 34's will have roller shutters rather then lockers (sounds good)
& 1 of the new 14's will have a CAFS setup on it.
where did you find that out?
In the latest Vollie mag
Roller doors....a welcome change as the current lockers always pop open when you are responding to a job :-P
Bandaid job always before the good fix eh :roll:
a 14p would be good in hilly hard to get places to relay water to and from places where a 24p or a 34p cant get to :? :-D
There are multiple types of appliances needed in the CFS. Its sad to see that they are able to reduce it down to: 14, 34, 34P, Medium Pumpers and Tankers. Rural areas have differing needs. 34s are great from grassfires, open paddocks and the like, but are next to useless in large ares of the Mt. Lofty Rangers due to their height. This is the same with the current super tall 14s. The old 24 appliance was a great mix of size/water capacity, and I feel that its disappointing to see it being withdrawn.
The same applies to different Urban areas. We currently have an appliance built for a purpose by another fire service. It has a rear mounted pump, along with a single attack line. In the NSWFB, who run a great deal of flaked hose, this is not an issue, yet in the CFS, we very rarely have flaked preconnected hose on our appliances. Why the CFS was not able to consult the multiple brigades that require a decent pumper and come up with a good design is beyond me. Instead we end up with an import from the UK, a filtered of a prototype, a 'not so bad' import as standard, and plans to build a newer pumper for at least two brigades.
I'm sure I hope the CFS pulls its finger out and gets back on the journey in terms of appliances.
It would be good to see them bring back the 32's for sum parts of the state where the tall trucks cant get to places cos of size of them but they carrie the same as the 34 the only diff is the drive there is only 3 left in the state. :| :-D
Please correct Me if I'm wrong....wasn't the Fireking the one that got bogged while trying to get up a gentle slope at Kuitpo forest on the day it was shown to the media..
What ever happened to.....*You can get on any CFS Appliance across the State and all be the same**?? :-P
Quote from: boss on October 20, 2006, 01:17:47 AM
It would be good to see them bring back the 32's for sum parts of the state where the tall trucks cant get to places cos of size of them but they carrie the same as the 34 the only diff is the drive there is only 3 left in the state. :| :-D
What is the point in most areas of having a 2wd appliance? Almost every (all?) CFS brigades have some rural component....having only a 2 wd can limit a brigade's ability to respond to that sort of area.......
And at least 2 of the "32's " (although Pumper is the correct call sign now) will be gone soon....
Pip
It would be good to have similar or the same accross the state but then there would be no new development in the annnual batches of trucks.
Other that a Hino and roller doors are there any other major diffrences in New 34s?
I think we should come up wit hsome trucks like Picadilly Summertown and Bridgewater 14 as they are a smaller and yet have more space than the utes.
I agree it would be good to see more CAFS on CFS trucks
Quote from: bittenyakka on October 20, 2006, 10:54:58 AM
....Other that a Hino and roller doors are there any other major diffrences in New 34s?.....I agree it would be good to see more CAFS on CFS trucks
The CFS Volunteer magazine described a new monitor style. Also another CAFS vehciles and automatic transmission on a vehicle.
I can tell you now the 32 can go any where off road just as long it is not a step slop they might not have the clearens or the 4wd set up but they get there and do the job. :evil:
My opinion only. It would be wonderful if every CFS brigade had a selection of appliances at their disposal to suit every concievable emergency situation, but this is the real world. I feel there is still strong need for 32/Pumper style appliances, particularly in urban areas. Ultimately even the concept of Scanias for Urban CFS brigades should be worth consideration, as long as these same brigades also have a suitable 4WD appliance in the shed. Our brigade once had the combination of a 32/Pumper and a 24, (which was later replaced by a 24P snail). There were times when the 32 was required to attend off road jobs and from what I understand had absolutely no problems accessing most of the grass, scrub, paddock, woods etc in our area. Even some of the heavier going areas of NP's and gorges have fire access tracks quite suitable for 2WD. The advantage of 32/Pumpers being usually faster and more agile and can carry more equipment.
I thinks CFS is on the right track with 14, 24, 24P, 34, 34P and Pumper/Rescue adequately covering all risks.
But we can still dream that one day our brigade will have a Scania and a 34P in the shed. I won't hold my breath though. (We would settle for a nice type 2 instead) :-D
The CFS doesnt build 24s anymore... Its sad to lose this mid size appliance. You may dream for a 34P in your shed, but I dread the day that happens.
It would be nice to see rescues built seperate to say something like a 34P.
I realise this wont happen as we dont have the budget for it but it always concerns me when a rescue brigade is tied up at prolonged job with their rescue appliance (Say Barker Rescue for example, Not having a dig at barker its just an easy appliance to refer to) and therefore can not respond to a rescue.
And its not always possible to do a COQ as this usually just creates another gap in rescue coverage.
its too bad we cant follow NPWSA and get appliances like they have, has anyone seen South East Bravo 14 thats one of those ford trucks that looks like a four wheel drive :-D believe me its real comfy sitting in side
Your right, CFS aren't building 24's currently. This is a shame, as in a lot of circumstances were more practical than the current sized 24P. With CFS obviously going away from single cab appliances (not including refurbs) we are seeing a physically larger generation of appliance. At least the more recent batch of 24P's were turbo. I only hope that the next generation Hino's have the turbo option. See another thread on this subject. I live and hope that CFS learn soemthing from previous mistakes (circa 2000 24P snail)
Dont worry the new hinos are turboed
Quote from: boss on October 20, 2006, 01:02:06 PM
I can tell you now the 32 can go any where off road just as long it is not a step slop they might not have the clearens or the 4wd set up but they get there and do the job. :evil:
Well that rules out almost every fire track, and half the driveways in my area!!
And I recall several years ago, a certain brand new 32 travelled down a fire track within my Group area (against the wishes of the Incident Controller) - and promptly got stuck when a fire snuck up underneath it, and burnt out the air lines....trapping several other appliances further down the track....
The other appliances eventually got out, but 32 was left sitting out by itself overnight, until the mechanic come out the next day... :evil:
Pip
Had a look at the new hino's that are up at moore's the other day they are not as high as the current 34twin cab and there is not as much room in the cab for members.
just the Hino chassie or have they already built a truck?
There is a truck that is about 1/3 complete was in the yard the other day when i was there..
any Pics?
I was asked not to take any pictures due to the media still floating around.....
I was referring to most adelaide plains aera where it is mostly flat ground for the 32's to run on and which units are to be replace out of the 32's. :roll:
Quote from: 5271rescue on October 22, 2006, 06:20:42 AM
I was asked not to take any pictures due to the media still floating around.....
Yeah like there was plenty of focus on Moore's about the problems with the 34's of Kangarilla and Mclaren Flat...one more piccy wouldnt have hurt :-D
Dont know if there would be many cab chassis that would be suitable as a 24. With the turbos all of the Isuzus are pretty high and you would still need something that could take a reasonable payload. We dont want a repeat of the Hino Kestrel fiasco.
Quote from: boss on October 22, 2006, 03:02:46 PM
I was referring to most adelaide plains aera where it is mostly flat ground for the 32's to run on and which units are to be replace out of the 32's. :roll:
Murray Bridge has just been replaced, Burnside Pumper will be replaced soon, which leaves Cleve 32 / Pumper as the only Pumper in the CFS fleet which is more than about 10 years old (excluding refurbished ones) ....I figure at some stage that will be replaced, but I haven't heard anything about if / when that is going to happen..
Pip
what about Riverton 32 and Brinkworth 32 i can tell you now that riverton 32 is still running strong it out runs saddleworth 34 which is the same age. :mrgreen:
Naracoorte pumper is almost 10 years old and is offline TFN due to rust and other problems....
Quote from: 5271rescue on October 23, 2006, 06:41:47 AM
Naracoorte pumper is almost 10 years old and is offline TFN due to rust and other problems....
Hmmmm was looking at the government auctions site the other day and they are selling the old Hino's for between $18,000 and $22,000.Not much of a return on an outlay of $90,000 for the older Hino's with low k's,but then again who would want them eh :lol:
Quote from: boss on October 23, 2006, 12:29:59 AM
what about Riverton 32 and Brinkworth 32 i can tell you now that riverton 32 is still running strong it out runs saddleworth 34 which is the same age. :mrgreen:
As I understand it, these are 32's, not Pumpers.....Saddleworth 34 is currently out of service due to crash damage, not specifically its age...
The problem for CFS now is a) funding to replace all the appliances that reach the age limit / break down & need replacement, and b) having enough staff to facilitate / coordinate the process
Pip
Quote from: pipster on October 22, 2006, 11:44:11 PM
Murray Bridge has just been replaced, Burnside Pumper will be replaced soon, [...]
will it? need agreement from all parties first I think...
Quote from: safirey on October 23, 2006, 08:24:27 AM
Hmmmm was looking at the government auctions site the other day and they are selling the old Hino's for between $18,000 and $22,000.Not much of a return on an outlay of $90,000 for the older Hino's with low k's,but then again who would want them eh :lol:
interesting, I wondered how much they went for at the auctions ($18K - $22K seems quite a lot). Do they sell with the pump, tank, hosereels etc still fitted?
Quote from: Darius on October 23, 2006, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: pipster on October 22, 2006, 11:44:11 PM
Murray Bridge has just been replaced, Burnside Pumper will be replaced soon, [...]
will it? need agreement from all parties first I think...
It will be replaced...at some stage in the foreseeable future..... what with is, I believe, still being decided between the relevant parties......! :-)
Sadleworth 34 is back online and Riverton 32 and Sadleworth 34 are both 19 year and not being taken out of service till there 25 years old plus Riverton cant get a new one till the shed is raised the roof is to low for a 4wd truck the 32 and 22 just get in.
There you go....my info was slightly different, but perhaps not entirely correct!!
In your post, however, you mention the other major problem facing CFS & new appliances.....that is fitting them in.
Many brigades took delivery of appliances, and when they hightlighted the fact that it wouldn't physically fit, were told "That's your problem"
Some brigades then spent their own funds on rebuilding the station, just so the appliance would fit!!!
Pip
Quote from: Darius on October 23, 2006, 10:38:36 AM
Quote from: safirey on October 23, 2006, 08:24:27 AM
Hmmmm was looking at the government auctions site the other day and they are selling the old Hino's for between $18,000 and $22,000.Not much of a return on an outlay of $90,000 for the older Hino's with low k's,but then again who would want them eh :lol:
interesting, I wondered how much they went for at the auctions ($18K - $22K seems quite a lot). Do they sell with the pump, tank, hosereels etc still fitted?
According to the site yes with pumps hosereels etc
Check it here http://www.auctions.sa.gov.au/prices_results.php?make=ANY&tran_type=ANY&price_range=ANY&Submit=Search
Quote from: pipster on October 23, 2006, 01:44:52 PM
There you go....my info was slightly different, but perhaps not entirely correct!!
In your post, however, you mention the other major problem facing CFS & new appliances.....that is fitting them in.
Many brigades took delivery of appliances, and when they hightlighted the fact that it wouldn't physically fit, were told "That's your problem"
Some brigades then spent their own funds on rebuilding the station, just so the appliance would fit!!!
Pip
Hahndorf got their "Type 2" by default as they couldnt get a 34 in their station because it was heritage listed :-D
Was told that when Dalkeith lose their 24P that it will be going to Riverton, but could be wrong?? And as for Cleve's 32 i can't see CFS replacing it with another Pumper but the way they hand out trucks it wouldn't surprise me.
I know Riverton was meant to get balaklava 24p the 24p was to replace the 22 that they got now i haven't heard if Riverton is getting dalkeith 24p or not.
Just found out the details re Saddleworth 34....it has been repaired, but is currently a spare...Saddleworth CFS have the old Truro 34, until such time as a new replacement arrives for Saddleworth.....
As for other appliance movements, who knows!!!
Pip :-)
I know Riverton can't get the shed roof lifted till SAAS pulls there finger out and helps in the cost getting it done becouse the shed co-owned by them plus there to a bit of red tape to get past. :| :| :-)
Why should the SAAS have to help pay for the cost :?
if SAAS dose not raise there side the building will be under stress because of the weight of it all.
Thats one fine looking fire/ambo station at riverton
If you get the time to take a closer look at the station where the front pillers are is where the new doors are going to be. And the wall is going to be 4 to 7 layers higher than it is now. :wink: :-D