Feel this would improve our needs,what do you think?
It could. A group, much like the FRAG, that can differentiate the needs of rural brigades and urban brigades and act accordingly would be SUCH a leap forward.
Sadly we can't all exist soley on a single spec. 34P!
A very good idea. Does anyone know what happened to FRAG and what brigades belonged to it. i think if the FRAG or something similar was established we would have problems with the rulings for what makes you a frequent responder. I reckon we would have this problem because if the FRAG was established and the members of it got the best of everything (equipment, training) the non members would be really pissed especially those who just missed out on being a frequent responder.
BTW What makes a Frequent Responder? Call Numbers, SFEC's...
Do we need a union?? is it not the job / role of the VFBA to support its members?? As for FRAGS this was only for the so called busy brigade's and they where way over the top and way out of touch with the real CFS.....
Ok, Whats the real CFS then mate... there is a huge difference in needs for brigades! you cant just have one association for your Salisburys and the infamous Kalangadoo. Different needs, people, equipment and huge difference in brigade activity.
Believe to be apart of FRAG your brigade had to attend an average of one call p/week??? There might be other criteria but I'm not sure
Quote from: rescue5271 on May 21, 2006, 07:57:22 PM
As for FRAGS this was only for the so called busy brigade's and they where way over the top and way out of touch with the real CFS.....
As has already been said, what is the real CFS? And so called busy brigades? Is there not a small difference between your handful of calls and hundreds of calls a year brigades?
Currently things seem to be a bit 'way out of touch' with urban Brigades, in terms of appliances/stations etc... Maybe there needs to be a more distinct Urban/Rural split, in terms of management.
as blinky mentioned, the VFBA is the "union" of the CFS, and since it's made up of all of us, you get out of it what you put into it.
The only issue i have with the VFBA is that it is funded by the C.F.S so why would it want to bite the hand that feeds it???
Quote from: TillerMan on May 22, 2006, 10:14:32 AM
The only issue i have with the VFBA is that it is funded by the C.F.S so why would it want to bite the hand that feeds it???
I think that's a fairly simplified description of the funding, but that aside, how else would they be funded? given we don't get paid I don't think many people would be keen to pay $x per week for it.
People have enough issues now with the funds they contribute out of their own pockets for CFS - let alone to go towards a union.
FRAG did achieve a lot, for all of CFS, however their focus was primarily for the busy and very active brigades, however what they raised was aprofile and that filtered to all brigades.
Just a pity that FRAG was a huge commitment for those that were on it and they too had lives, work, families, social lives and CFS brigade commitments.
What do u mean by extra commitment?
well from where I sit and what people in te busy brigades have said that some members of FRAGS went overboard,wanting to be paid for this and that.Is that not a retained fire service????there should be no difference from a busy brigade that does 300 and a rural brigade that does 20 or 50 calls thay all have there needs and these need to be met.
No difference......150 calls, 2000-5000 more houses, medium to large shopping complexes, several schools, several arterial roads, mulitple industrial sites and service stations. :-P
Although no CFS area is the same there are similarities but there is also a huge difference between Coomandook and Morphett Vale or Burnside and Kalangadoo :lol:
Thank GOD I dont live in kalangadoo.............
If my dad had of taken a job in Ceduna or at Olympic Dam when i was just a little kid i would have ended up being a fire fighter with Roxby or Ceduna CFS rather than Kalangadoo where there is issues with crewing and members not getting along with each other
Honestly Robert get out of that town and move on because that town will swallow you up
Quote from: Robert34 on May 22, 2006, 08:34:17 PM
If my dad had of taken a job in Ceduna or at Olympic Dam when i was just a little kid i would have ended up being a fire fighter with Roxby or Ceduna CFS rather than Kalangadoo where there is issues with crewing and members not getting along with each other
What on earth has this got to do with the thread?
Personally i would pay a union fee,its tax deductable and we offer free fuel getting to the fire station.So who cares giving a little bit more if its going to help things.If you always do the same things,you always get the same things.
Quote from: Darius on May 22, 2006, 10:11:46 AM
as blinky mentioned, the VFBA is the "union" of the CFS, and since it's made up of all of us, you get out of it what you put into it.
HMM well our brigade aint in the VFBA (so's to speak, we dumped them) and i believe its the same deal with most if not all of our group.
But you can not join the UFU as they dont allow volunteers to join..I am not sure if they let the retain MFS guys join????
I dont hear much about the VFBA these days only in the volunteer magazine thats about it
Big VFBA meeting in Naracoorte tonight 8pm ...
QuoteHMM well our brigade aint in the VFBA (so's to speak, we dumped them) and i believe its the same deal with most if not all of our group.
Every volunteer is represented by the VFBA, without exception. When you dumped them, you only lost your voting rights. Hence, you are now represented by a union that you have no say in...
I agree that there needs to be an independent union. Realistically, the VFBA doesn't do much for volunteers, especially when compared with what the UFU can achieve. Sure they've brought about a few changes, and fought a few battles for the volunteers, but are the volunteers actually any better off because of them?
I believe the SAVFBA is funded by brigades paying membership (only ~$20 a year). Why can't the brigades just spend that money on the independent union, without any out of pocket expenses from vollies?
hah well at least we save our $20 then
could get a new pair of gloves for that.... almost :P
The UFU like to go around and bag the CFS, without good reason. So dont praise them too much.
I wasn't saying I liked what they do, I was saying that they have a lot of power to do what they do...
I don't blame them for bagging us though, we are the single greatest threat to the MFS...
lmao
Who said any thing about having the MFS Union involed with us,we create our own structured union,with brains from within
hahah oh my thats a good one, haha ha ah ha.. oh my :(
My glass anit far from full.
How are you going to get a union to do anything for you if you don't pay them....Pay peanuts you get monkeys..... I believe that it's about $10 a week per firefighter to be a member of the UFU. And you are worried about $20 a year for a whole brigade. If your brigade is not a member of the VFBA i can't see how you can complain about what they don't do for you.
Don't think we need a union and definetly not a VFBA. Yes, we are a employee of the SACFS but the system, works quite fine as it is. It does not need a union yet. But maybe when the big almagation occurs between services in the year 2050.???.
Frag was good, but was only had an interest in one thing themself and no-one else.
We are their to answer not to question.
Quote from: ltdan on June 05, 2006, 11:14:28 PM
We are their to answer not to question.
That seems rather narrow minded
That seems rather narrow minded
Quote
No, its not, when you are asked to do something where ever in the chain of command you do it without question. Questioning causes confusion, confusion causes kaos. The agency needs to change its ways and ideas to the ways it was 10 -15 years ago with issues relating to chain of command (operational and adminstration.) Adminstratively, I do agree that input from the volunteer is good, but sometimes it seems that it gets too aggressive and makes us look like we are calling the shots when we should not. Operationally, we are all trying to do the same thing and remember their is only one OIC, therefore only one plan attack in any type of incident we attend. When asked for your opinion in to do that plan, this is great and this shows great leadersdhip, but when we decide to do what we want and not follow the plan, problems occur, as I hope you would agree.
I would agree that at an incident, unless there is a safety concern you do what your told.
The day to day running of a diverse service needs input from those doing the job. If that consultation does not occur then the head overtakes the feet (or vice versa) and you fall over..
Lets scale things to a large incident (the CFS)
lets look back a few years to catering at large fires.... If we were to leave it to the IC many of us may never have been fed..... you consider this good leadership????? the good leadership came from the OIC of the appliance listening to his crew and acting apon it, or many of us would have been forgotten!
If you are looking at large incidents the introduction of AIIMS repaired this, to a satisfactory requirement. Catering has been an issue in the fire service for a very long time. I agree it is better but we can improve. Our catering was good a few years as well "sometimes" but of course we improved, and this is what you see now. We learn from our mistakes.
I believe their is enough consultation and too many people are getting involved in this consultation which should not been involved, and in resutt is taking more time of the volunteer, and is now starting to be a "requirement" not an "option."
Personnel being parts of Working parties which have no idea do not help the service. We are seeing more and more of this
You are right a good leader does listen to his crew and takes their opinion and then makes a decision. :-)
The key word being TEAM WORK...
Team work,well some people have forgotten what that means....
Quote from: pete on June 06, 2006, 07:20:21 PM
The key word being TEAM WORK...
Exactly.....
Your right Bill... There are quite a few out therer who have forgotten. But they will remember, hopefully not to late, and lets not forget they might need a bit of hep along the way.