Does anybody know what the standards of construction are going to be in regards to new station contruction for Urban CFS Brigades. There hasnt been an Urban station built for quiet some time. Surely they arent going to build a "shed" on the side of a road in an urban environment. And urban stations differ greatly in the type of equipment kept there and their physical location.
If the CFS where to build a new station for an urban brigade (lets use Eden Hills as an example) What would it look like? Would it be on a main road? would it have traffic control lights (orange orange red)? and would it have some of the mod cons of an MFS Station (I dont want this to be a "CFS trying to be MFS" Thread)
As far as i am aware.... And i have had a little to do with the building of a new station. There is only a design for a rural, rural urban, urban rural and group base. All of which are based around a shed.
Who knows, i have to say that in Victoria the build the best Volunteer fire stations around,you go to a small town like nhill,which is urban/ rural they have a new brick station drive throu and it looks like a fire station.. there will never be a standard URBAN fire station as they can't get the fire appliances right for some urban brigades.
These are issues that need to be delt with at group/regional level and we should all have some input into what is needed for our own brigade area. It does not matter if you are urban or rural we all need basic needs(toilet/shower). There are rural brigades in busy urban areas but they still have a tin shed.....
Tin shed. Thats it. Separate engine bay and comms meeting room. Appauling.
Thats what i thought... The CFA stations are awesome! has anyone seen the station in Lorne. its co-located with the rural ambulance with 3 cfa bays and 2 ambulance. its two story so i can only imagine how much space there is up there, yet they only do 50 - 100 calls a year!
this is a state of the art station (lorne cfa) bust brigade/group on the coastly road they where well over due for the new station and its not a bad looking size..Just goes to show you that you can have all emergency services in the one station.Summer the town grows in size with tourist and so they call for expression of interest from CFA volunteers that may be having their holidyas to turn out with them. I think they also have a paid staff member over summer...
I went to Riddles Creek several years ago with my parents to celebrate easter at my dad's brothers house on easter sunday i went for a walk down to have a look at the Riddles Creek CFA shed
It has 3 bays one for each appliance as well as a meeting/communications room... i happened to be lucky enough to go inside the station itself as the volunteers were doing training on that very morning
How come Retained MFS stations are all made of brick like full time MFS stations while CFS usually alway smake do with sheds?
(genuine question, not bitching about MFS vs CFS)
Thats the $50,000 question.........Also one has to have a look at the cost of land and the shed and why when you says its for a fire station the price goes up....
take a look around the only recently built CFS stations rural or urban are built around a 'shed'....
mind you there are several out there with traffic lights out the front.
Guys there is a design for the different brigades like rural, urban, and group base, real technical designs, it is the size of the tin the varies...... :-D
I believe an urban station gets a concrete path around the outside, thats about the only difference.
Quote from: rescue5271 on May 21, 2006, 07:54:46 PM
Thats the $50,000 question.........Also one has to have a look at the cost of land and the shed and why when you says its for a fire station the price goes up....
it's not cos it's for a fire station that the price goes up, it's cos it's for govt. If I was a builder I'd charge lots more for govt jobs to cover all the paperwork, delays and wrangling not to mention the risk of it taking ages to get paid.
personally I don't see anything wrong with building them out of iron but maybe I'm weird cos I'd be happy with a house based on a converted shed (wife won't have it though).
So.... What makes a urban station more deserving of a brick building than a rural station?
Appliance needs differ..... buildings do not.
The workmanship may leave somewhat to be desired, but in the end they dont actually LOOK that bad; and lets face it they do what they are required to do. Considering some brigades are still lacking a toilet, I dont think you have a lot to complain about!
What would you say if you were joining up, and were told you had to go pee on a tree??? great image isnt it!
*biting tongue now*
We should all get double bay MFS stations just like Salisbury and Golden Grove! But seriously a brick station really does look nicer and presents a better image to the public, especially in more urban areas.
(for those who take things seriously, I am not 100% serious)
I agree with you mike....
Our station use to not have a toilet being its an ex council depot but we got funding as well as assistance from a local plumber (which i may add who is now in queensland doing the same job) to do the plumbing & installing once the limestone add on toliet block was built
Quote from: P F on May 22, 2006, 05:05:39 PM
We should all get double bay MFS stations just like Salisbury and Golden Grove! But seriously a brick station really does look nicer and presents a better image to the public, especially in more urban areas.
(for those who take things seriously, I am not 100% serious)
p f i think you are thinking of elizabeth and Golden grove?
salisbury is and old station that does not look like it is going to be rebuilt any time soon.
Yes, my bad! I was thinking of ELizabeth pictured it in my mind and knew it was ELizabeth, dont know why I wrote Salisbury :?
hmmm yes. anyways, I have always preferred the look of the brick stations, never been a fan of the tin shed. As someone said earlier, brick stations present a better image, even in small towns. See in a small town it couldn't hurt, for example, here is clayton's CFS station. Now clayton is a small town in strath group, heres their station:
(http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/photos/sacfs-clay-stn.jpg)
now if this station was to even have a brick shed on the site instead, perhaps even with an alcove within the shed with a radio and a little bar fridge. Surely this can be done?!?!
They do have a little office and stuff in the back of that shed.....
Do you classify CFS Strathalbyn's new HQ, CFS Morphett Vale, CFS Port Elliot/SES South Coast and CFS/SES Kingston SE has sheds ? Personally I thought a shed was like a large agriculture or slightly bigger than a two car garage.
Having completed some training at the Port Elliot building, I think they make a good model because they combine all of the required facilities. But it is built from metal.
I think the environment where the building is built should be considered rather than just what the building looks like. For example, I believe you should get better facilities to protect volunteers from the heat, cold and rain. If this means airconditioning in crew relief areas, so be it.
This is in addition to the basics of a toilet, crew change space, crew lockers, meeting/training/ops/welfare room, enough space for all equipment, etc, etc.
In regards to 'emergency wig-wags' I personally think the idea of traffic light control would be better. I understand CFS Seaford have this on the Commercial Rd / Seaford Rd intersection.
I don't believe they personally have control from their station, they can ring a number and qoute traffic light numbers within their route to the operator and they can change the lights for them, as can any briagde who has traffic lights.
that would be sweet as.
oh by the way, aldgate have amber lights, like school crossing ones, and I believ they are activated when the doors open
I believe Salisbury (CFS) also can ring the TSA and request certain traffic light routes from their station. Would make life a lot easier especially at peak times.
When i was at Bordertown we had a new station built for us. It was tin yes but was very well laid out and comfortable to work in.. And yes i thought it looked good. Brick does look good but when the CFS is forced to work with a small budget they need to concentrate on more important things then the look of stations.
Camo
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/Station_Display.asp?Service_Code=SACFS&Station_Code=BDTN
Morphett Vale has setup two traffic light relays that we can activate by calling the traffic control center, you simply quote a number and the lights will hopefully be green when you get to them.
The situation at Seaford is different, they have a physical connection to the traffic lights at the corner of Seaford road and Commercial road with a button in the radio room to activate them.
thats cool.
no traffic lights to worry about in my response area. Still no shortage of loser drivers to make up for it!
NO traffic lights here,but new round abouts going in boy hope we can drive over them like the old days :roll:
yeah, give the driver a bit more 4wd experience.
i agree. Im shooting down my own theory now, brick stations, although they look good, are expensive.
below is what I believe one of the best semi urban type stations and would be fine in a place like morphett vale.
avail, the mighty bridgewater station!
(http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/photos/sacfs-brdg-stn.jpg)
makes a good group base. 3 bays for trucks, group car bays,Radio rooms, offices, kitchens, BA room, large meeting room with all the toys, huge PPE storage area that could also probably fit another truck if need be.
we also used to have a little transport bus thing for transporting replacment crews, but im not sure if we still have that. Either way, I reckon this would be great for a super busy urban station.
Quote from: rescue5271 on May 29, 2006, 11:56:52 AM
NO traffic lights here,but new round abouts going in boy hope we can drive over them like the old days :roll:
So that is why the 4wd trucks are soooo high :roll:
Probie boy, as good as that station is, it is crippled by having what they term these days a 'Group Base'. Hence the best semi urban type station is one that used to be the group base and thus has all the room from the group base, with 110% LESS uslessness! Not to mention the five bays, workshop, storage room packed with god knows what, asbestos roof, fading signage and the licensed bar! All hidden away from the public veiw, with no roadside signage whatso ever and the bonus of the public parking in our carparks and occasionly IN FRONT OF THE DAMN DOORS.
(http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/photos/sacfs-strl-stn.jpg)
Oh by the way, its for sale... anyone got a spare few million they want to throw our way?....Please?
hahahaha. yeah whats the current situation with that toast?
where is that station?
Camo
Its the champion Stirling CFS Station, located at 9 Avenue Rd. Stirling
Quote from: Toast on May 30, 2006, 12:36:23 PM
and the bonus of the public parking in our carparks and occasionly IN FRONT OF THE DAMN DOORS.
Mate if they park in the station carpark box em' in like we do they'll get the message after they're trapped there for a while :-)
or if its an emergency, break the window, and roll it out the way, theyll get the message...
not sure re; the legality of that... but sounds fun.
ie. in the first few scenes of backdraft perhaps..... :roll: lol
AHHH great movie that one...
but seriously... what else would ya do, if you needed to get the truck out in a hurry and the person was nowhere to be found?
would it be a case for a defualt brigadeor what?
Isnt that why they gave us bullbars???? :wink: jk
Default would be the first thing, as either was you look at it there is going to be a reasonable delay to turn out.
Glass hammer to the window, pull the hand brake, roll it out of the way. It would depend on the call of course. Default for a tree down, smash and move for RCR, persons trapped. Its not like the place is not well sign posted. There are around... 9 I think, signs stating NOT to park in front of the station.
mmm i think your on the ball toast, personally id move it myself for anything other than a smoke investigation or tree down... i rekon. plus... it'd be fun. :-D
Imagine having monster truck style CFS appliances you would be able to run over the top of cars blocking your response to a call out :lol:
If the car was small enough Robert, you could probably have some monster truck fun with a 24 (If it had a massive bull bar) :D ;)
Quote from: Robert34 on May 31, 2006, 06:30:46 PM
Imagine having monster truck style CFS appliances you would be able to run over the top of cars blocking your response to a call out :lol:
you're an idiot rob 8-)
Quote from: Toast on May 31, 2006, 04:15:35 PM
Glass hammer to the window, pull the hand brake, roll it out of the way. It would depend on the call of course. Default for a tree down, smash and move for RCR, persons trapped. Its not like the place is not well sign posted. There are around... 9 I think, signs stating NOT to park in front of the station.
it doesn't help your case though toast that you have a kindergarten next door, a theatre across the driveway and a park behind that. Is it a bitch to park your car for a callout when something is on at the theatre or when parents are picking up kids from the kindy?
Perhaps CFS needs some kind of "parking ticket" system to fix this...
clearly mark all CFS stations, with no parking areas and FF parking only areas, if someone parks where they shouldnt (regardless of time or if the brigade has a call) then a member that notices, takes a photo (with the date/time capture thingy turned on), and forwards all photos to HQ at the end of the month with a summary sheet, and tickets are handed out....?
could work, and get the message out to 'repeat offenders'...
Forward it onto the cops, they can deal with it. Erases the hassle of having to set up something with HQ.
yeah mede, that could work. However, my station sits next to a general store. our carpark is on top of a small hill and the station is below. it sits on a blind corner so we have a driveway on both sides. so what ends up happening to us sometimes is that delivery trucks from the general store come up and turn around in our carpark during the day. luckily, it hasn't affected us during a call out, but the potentials there.
Quote from: probie_boy on May 30, 2006, 11:48:21 AM
makes a good group base. 3 bays for trucks, group car bays,Radio rooms, offices, kitchens, BA room, large meeting room with all the toys, huge PPE storage area that could also probably fit another truck if need be.
we also used to have a little transport bus thing for transporting replacment crews, but im not sure if we still have that. Either way, I reckon this would be great for a super busy urban station.
it's fine for a station but way too small for the group base + station. There is no inside parking for the group cars (what car bays are you referring to?), 1 radio room (combined base radio room and bridgewater station radio room), 1 kitchen (which is fine) and a very small group base office area. The small bus is still there, it is what gets shifted out the way for large incidents and that bay has temporary tables and phones etc go in for the IMT.
Quote from: probie_boy on June 01, 2006, 09:20:07 AM
Quote from: Toast on May 31, 2006, 04:15:35 PM
Glass hammer to the window, pull the hand brake, roll it out of the way. It would depend on the call of course. Default for a tree down, smash and move for RCR, persons trapped. Its not like the place is not well sign posted. There are around... 9 I think, signs stating NOT to park in front of the station.
it doesn't help your case though toast that you have a kindergarten next door, a theatre across the driveway and a park behind that. Is it a bitch to park your car for a callout when something is on at the theatre or when parents are picking up kids from the kindy?
The area in which we park has a sign designating it for CFS parking only, with a 5 minute limit for Kindy pick up and drop off. This does get abused by the theatre and lazy parents not wanting to park in 30+ Bays behind the station and walk down to pick up their kiddies.
The best excuse was "Its not summer, why does it matter?"
Darius, it seems my ideas and conceptions of bridgewater do, in fact, suck. my broup car bay was the bus bay on the end. Yeah so from what you've said, good station, bad for group base.
however, thats probably the best station for group base in lofty isn't it? Stirling would be alright, but they're busier than bridgey and have more limited parking than bridgewater too. a mighty dilemma! :?
Ahhhh, back in the days of Stirling Group...
Quote from: probie_boy on June 01, 2006, 02:16:51 PM
Darius, it seems my ideas and conceptions of bridgewater do, in fact, suck. my broup car bay was the bus bay on the end. Yeah so from what you've said, good station, bad for group base.
however, thats probably the best station for group base in lofty isn't it? Stirling would be alright, but they're busier than bridgey and have more limited parking than bridgewater too. a mighty dilemma! :?
yeah well there is no real alternative, that's the problem. Stirling is not really gonna work, and neither is at the new Aldgate station (when that happens!). There was talk (a long time ago) of using the ambo station back towards Aldgate near the bus depot for the group base, cos the ambos were going to move closer to the freeway, but that never happened.
the best option at the moment (IMO) is to expand at Bridgewater out the side a bit.
right so thats where stirling ambulance station is! yeah there's a fair bit of room there, we comfortably fitted a 6 truck strike team and group base operators cars all in the carpark at the same time.
By 6 truck strike team, I hope you mean 5 trucks and 1 command car probie ;)
I the co-location of Ambo's and CFS would be a good thing, so why not build a group base on the second story of the new ambulance station.. (Hah! yeah right:P)
yeah, yeah...thats the one