I have heard 2 rumours in the last few days in regards to cutting the c.f.s funding......
1 is that the budget will be cut by $3 million and the other is that the budget will be cut by $11 million and $3 million will be from the training budget alone. :?
Has anyone heard anything similar?
If this is the case i hope that all volunteers don't put up with this and tell the government to get stuffed.
I have heard similar things, all brigades need to blow all their budgets so the government and CFS management wake up to the fact you cannot run a fire service on well wishes and plastic trucks.....
Quote from: TillerMan on May 19, 2006, 11:08:54 AM
I have heard 2 rumours in the last few days in regards to cutting the c.f.s funding......
1 is that the budget will be cut by $3 million and the other is that the budget will be cut by $11 million and $3 million will be from the training budget alone. :?
Has anyone heard anything similar?
If this is the case i hope that all volunteers don't put up with this and tell the government to get stuffed.
who did we just vote in for another term?? :?
hopefully this ain't true, It'll suck donkey otherwise
Now we know why the government was being nice and gave us all PBI
I know most groups will be taking a budget cut this year. Rumour has it that region 1 is taking the biggest cut.
Spend spend spend....
wow, this financial years gonna be fun :roll:
I Heard That Alot Of CFB Courses Were Canned Because Of The Cost. Rumor Not Sure But It Would Make Sence As Thats An Expensive Course.
I'm In Region One Will Have To Start Spending.
YES I heard this afew weeks ago all I can say is wait till the budget comes out and wait till the court case is over..
Thats filtered !
Blow the budget and they will still pay,the MFS do.
Due to cuts in our budget all Volunteers will get a 50% drop in there CFS pay... :-o :lol: Mind you the MFS retain guys are still waiting on there pay rise and back pay from last year..........
Spend up big a just show your region, HQ and the government you cannot run a station with 3 trucks on $20,000........................
Yes you can,I can run 50 Tonka trucks on $20,000 :lol:
Quote from: pete on May 19, 2006, 05:54:16 PM
Blow the budget and they will still pay,the MFS do.
exactly, you spend what you have to. My group will be over budget come the end of June (if it's not already) but tough.
I guess they cant take our toys away if we dont play by the rules so spend spend spend.
Will this CFS fund cut result in small brigades going into recession :?
The CFB courses were cancelled because of lack of numbers, not funding.
Unfortunately, over spending will just hurt CFS corporate, not the government. The CFS has been asking for more money for years, and is being ignored. Its been presented to the government that the CFS needs more money, they've seen the figures, and know we are under funded but for some reason, they can't find any more money for us...
...What happened to the government that supports volunteers?
May be SAFECOM have a solution to this problem and I at a guess would say that there will be some form of one service in small towns rather than two or three as is the case.Time will tell and I am sure that we as Volunteers will just get on with the job and leave the CFS staff and the VFBA to get stuck into the government about the so called cuts...
Quote from: rescue5271 on May 20, 2006, 07:08:51 AM
Due to cuts in our budget all Volunteers will get a 50% drop in there CFS pay... :-o :lol:
yeah, we will actually have to start paying the CFS for each call we attend. On a serious side note, maybe newer members will have to pay a percentage of the cost for gear or training or something. It would be stupid, but it might have to be done if things get bad.
Quote from: rescue5271 on May 20, 2006, 07:41:48 PM
May be SAFECOM have a solution to this problem and I at a guess would say that there will be some form of one service in small towns rather than two or three as is the case.Time will tell and I am sure that we as Volunteers will just get on with the job and leave the CFS staff and the VFBA to get stuck into the government about the so called cuts...
Amalgamation!!! :-D :-D :-D The 'Naracoorte Emergency Service' :-D :-D :-D
I reckon it could take off Bill :-D
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, maybe newer members will have to pay a percentage of the cost for gear or training or something. It would be stupid, but it might have to be done if things get bad.
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if this happens it will be even harder to get new members cos no one is going to pay to be a volly and to the stuff we do
yeah blinky i know, but its a problem
Quote from: probie_boy on May 22, 2006, 11:20:22 AM
Quote from: rescue5271 on May 20, 2006, 07:08:51 AM
Due to cuts in our budget all Volunteers will get a 50% drop in there CFS pay... :-o :lol:
yeah, we will actually have to start paying the CFS for each call we attend. On a serious side note, maybe newer members will have to pay a percentage of the cost for gear or training or something. It would be stupid, but it might have to be done if things get bad.
And how is that different to the way currently work???
I'm sure members across the state are carrying some of the finacial cost of running the CFS. Fuel costs for driving to station, meetings, training, calls, etc., parts of PPE such as t-shirts, phone bills for making calls (and internet usage) from private phone's, minor stationary items and a range of other things.
I once had a brigade member ask if he should pay for the hire of a car trailer to be used to move wrecks around for RCR training (he was quiet happy to pat for it). I think most people are quiet happy to put in not only the time to support the CFS, but also money to ensure their local brigade still works effectivly and community has an adequate fire service. Call it part of the volunteer ethos perhaps. I have done this on a number of occasions.
However this willingness by volunteers to financially support their brigade is having the negative effect of hiding the actual cost to run the CFS. I'm not sure if anyone actually does know how much money goes into the CFS state wide from a variety of sources (Govt, fundraising, memebrs pockets, etc) to run the CFS. So when a Govt goes to cut the budget by X million dollars, as is rumoured, they are in the belief that the service is currently working fine on the current budget allocated to them and a small (to them) cut in funding will have minor effects. When in fact the CFS is not running financially on the current budget!!!
SK
Well said mate...
Has anyone heard anything other than rumours about this funding cut? Has there been any mention of it in the paper / in parliament?
Quote from: CFS_firey on May 20, 2006, 05:28:56 PM
The CFB courses were cancelled because of lack of numbers, not funding.
Unfortunately, over spending will just hurt CFS corporate, not the government. The CFS has been asking for more money for years, and is being ignored. Its been presented to the government that the CFS needs more money, they've seen the figures, and know we are under funded but for some reason, they can't find any more money for us...
...What happened to the government that supports volunteers?
A labour Govt is philosophically opposed to volunteerism......How can SAMFS expand when vollies are doing the job as good as SAMFS. I doubt a Labour govt is too keen on extending funding above what is politically popular...
Reserve the right to be proved wrong though!!!!! :-D
Latest rumour has it that the expected funding model (and subsequent cuts) have been declined by the powers that be within CFS. It is now expected that funding will be pretty close to the same as 2005/2006. Looks like we may have been given 12mths reprieve before we see a cut..... or maybe someone will see some more light.
Spend spend spend some more...
One would hope so,but I will wait and see as we all know things have in the past changed at the last second so lets just wait and see....
I think some of you need to take a long hard look at yourselves as volunteers and not just look at it from a whats in it for me attitude, just "spending" the money and coming in over budget is not the answer you just get people off side that way, as said many vollies willingly spend money out of their own pockets to aid their brigades along the way. The budget does not take into account what the volunteers do outside of operations but if we all take the tiem to fill in our non operational activity sheets than maybe what the volunteers actual worth is will become clear. So stop complaining about the budget cuts and do something about it use the saying think global act local.
But these fund cuts will be detrimental it seems and that is not a good thing that we can just sit back and watch Mr/Mrs Assistant. Safety factors firce us to continaully evolve and to evolve we need good amounts of money. PLus we are not yes men who take what HQ gives us, we are entitled to not be happy with fund cuts as it makes our life more difficult.
Well, a nice easy way for SAFECOM to stop wasting money would be to look at the doubleing and tripling of services in some towns... (The SES don't do anything the Fire Service can't)
We don't even have enough funding for the basics (Fire appliances and fire stations), how is closing our mouths and not spending any more going help?
Where does one get hold of the non-operational activity sheets?
Its the way you read it I was not at all saying that the funding cuts were fair and just and that we shouldn't do anything about it but I was suggesting that the way that we go about it has to be different than just whinging and bitching, the top knobs don't listen to people who just say we want more and have no justification for it. There are brigades and groups out there that get a bigger budget allocation than others and only spend spend spend for the sake of spending. I am not sure what the best avenue would be to fight these further funding cuts, but maybe brigades and groups rallying together and telling thier local MP about the problems may get noticed. We need to fight together to avoid further budget cuts and not butt heads about the way to do it.
The non operational activity sheets are a monthly sheet to log when and how many hours you spend on non operational activities such as training, maintenance, promotions etc.. they can be aquired from State HQ I guess because thats who you send them to, I have never had to request any as my brigade has always had them.
Funding for the SES is being cut big time at unit level. My unit for example this year had around $30000 to operate with - Mind you the bean counters at SAFECOM say we have $50000, but fail to note that some $20000 is lost to rent!
The budget for next year is some $19000(excluding rent). The way that it has been broken down is shocking. We get $200 a year for fuel - 1x truck and 2x 4WD, that should last about a week. Other strange things in the new budget model is that RCR units get an extra $1500, Air support units $750, and USAR units get some amount. The training budget for our unit will be $800.
Now these figures are from memory so maybe slightly out, I will attempt to get the full document given to Unit Managers last week. As you can imagine the Unit Managers let the people delivering the new budget know what they thought of it, with several walking out of the meeting.
So there is an insight to what is happening on the Oranage side of the world.
Quote from: Toast on June 16, 2006, 03:02:29 PM
(The SES don't do anything the Fire Service can't)
youve thrown the hook and bait out there so i might as well take a big bite...
Take your hand of it mate... the word ignorant comes to mind.
**apologies for off topic
I'm just saying we still have towns that have MFS/CFS/SES all operating. Its a waste to be funding three organisations in one place when one will do quite well.
IMO a waste of money having two fire services in the one town... but the SES still plays a very distinct role, and as much as some may hate it, they are the rescue service for some of these areas.
The SES do a good job. If you lost them, think of all the other training CFS would need to do.
Nothing against the SES, but they can have trees, flooding, search and rescue and storm damage days.
Yes the CFS helps when they get overloaded
Its very interesting to have the funding broken down like that B2. Makes me wonder if CFS brigades have funding allocated in such a way. I've always thought the CFS got a lump sum that they distributed how they liked...
The Assistant: Yes, how about those brigades / groups that spend money for the sake of it, donate some to us! ;)
B2's right....
he missed out the most important figure though
1500 for an RCR unit
10000 for a USAR unit
figure that! how many usar jobs compared to RCR are there!
From what I have heard the CFS system is seeming much 'fairer' for all.
It will also put some weight on efficency and type of call...
ie. fixed alarms (as part of the equasion) might only equal half a call - if 1 appliance is responded.
if 2 or 3 appliances respond then it might only equal 0.3 of a call...
true mike - but consider the fact that a USAR unit requires pretty much the exact same kit as a road crash unit (as a lot of the gear can be used for both roles) plus a lot more specialised tools...
re; number of road crash versus USAR, i believe every building impact is classed as USAR (building collapse)plus most of the tools are used in "general rescue" etc...
just food for thought
I was told that we are not going to the new funding system next finical year again, they found too many problems with it. Has anyone heard the same? :?
Quote from: medevac on June 16, 2006, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Toast on June 16, 2006, 03:02:29 PM
(The SES don't do anything the Fire Service can't)
youve thrown the hook and bait out there so i might as well take a big bite...
Take your hand of it mate... the word ignorant comes to mind.
**apologies for off topic
Thanks Medivac, I am keeping my mouth shut on what Toast stated in the interests of inter-service harmony... :-( Hopefully he or she will visit or learn about the other services.
My understanding only.... SES SHQ this year have changed funding distribution to how active the Unit is. Some Units have budget cuts and not happy, others have budget increases and are happy.
I am not sure if the total funding to SES has increased or decreased. I suspect decreased.
My guess regards USAR is that new trailers are being distributed to more Units. The tools to go in the trailers would be funded by the Unit purchase. Maybe RCR have already purchased the tools, so it is maintenance only :?
My personal guess only.
Geeze, it was all debated here: http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=214.0
And the general consensus was that "Yes, combine and remove duplication", yet I say the same thing here, and get jumped on.
How can anyone honestly say that having 1 town, with 2 services, two trucks, two budgets and trying to source two groups of people from the same pool of residents is a good thing? Why cant it be 1 town, 1 service, trucks as needed, one budget, one group of people needed?
Quote from: Toast on June 19, 2006, 04:39:51 PM
Geeze, it was all debated here: http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=214.0
And the general consensus was that "Yes, combine and remove duplication", yet I say the same thing here, and get jumped on.
How can anyone honestly say that having 1 town, with 2 services, two trucks, two budgets and trying to source two groups of people from the same pool of residents is a good thing? Why cant it be 1 town, 1 service, trucks as needed, one budget, one group of people needed?
Personal opinion only & genuine question....be warned this is a rant that has been building for a while.
In a country region would you really think that an takeover would save that much dollars :?
If the need is for a specialised emergency response of rescue in an area, would you not need a specialised truck to carry the required gear for any volunteers (eg Naracoorte CFS rescue, CFS Hazmat appliances, Oakbank CFS with SES trucks being used be CFS members, etc, etc) ?? Other threads have been stating they cannot fit all of the 'would like to have' CFS equipment into the existing truck.
If that is so, then storage and training costs of the volunteers would be the same !! For example, the combined CFS/SES sheds I have visited, still have space problems for all of the equipment required to provide the required service.
For volunteers not wishing to combine into the one shed, I would assume their must be a local reason for this. Personalities of volunteers and volunteers wanting to specialise in a skillset will also need to be taken into account.
Sorry, but have attended 'Ash Wednesday I' (as a fire spotter & logistics), Danggali (on NPWS 4wd clearing spot fires, logistics & with a knapsack) and 'Ash Wednesday II' (logistics, fire spotting & looting patrols). I would prefer to complete a verticle rescue rather than face a wild fire again. For that I admire CFS volunteers.....
So on that basis, I do not care if I wear yellow, orange or pink dots (well maybe :roll:). But i would attend a rescue response before a fire response. As a volunteer I believe I have that right to make a personal choice.
Each crew of a truck needs to have specialised skills, no matter what colour the uniform. Those skill sets will need to be maintained (which costs a volunteer time & money) and the brigade/unit costs will be the same if combined or seperate.
A combined services group would have major cost savings in administration overheads of Regional/SHQ setups. But I thought that was one of the major aims of SAFECOM was to reduce the duplication at that level.
In summary, personally if the local country area wishes to combine, then why don't the volunteers just do it (eg Oakbank CFS). If the volunteers want to stay seperate, then let them. But dont assume volunteers will automatically move with a forced takeover because one organisation is bigger than the other. I think some of the 2000+ volunteers might quit (this is whay the SASESVA was created in the early 1990's, see http://www.sasesva.org.au/history.htm).
I must be missing something major here.....please enlighten me.
PS. This is a rant off the original topic, the forum administrators might wish to move this to thread.
Quote from: bajdas on June 19, 2006, 09:34:01 AM
SES SHQ this year have changed funding distribution to how active the Unit is.
My guess regards USAR is that new trailers are being distributed to more Units. The tools to go in the trailers would be funded by the Unit purchase.
Ok, now this is my understanding but have a nice chat infont of me with all these figures on it.
The model that was used to work out funding is based on an average number of jobs from the last 6 years. Now most people would think this is fine, but there are a few units out there that are being screwed over this because prior management failed to submit reports or for what ever other reason SHQ only has job details for the last 2 years. Bit of a difference between the average of 6 years of jobs over 6 years and 2 years of jobs over 6 years. I know of one unit that averaged around 300 jobs each year for the last 2 that according to SHQ do an average of 60 or so jobs a year. With the new funding that 'small' difference costs between $10000 and $20000 a year of potential budget.
With the USAR side of it. 6 Units in metro/near metro have been given USAR trailers to become part of the state USAR response. Of these units 2 (Noarlunga & Sturt) are fully setup and get the extra $10510 in the budget. The other 4 wont get the $10510 until they are fully capable. Which means they must purchase the extra equipment out of the Typical units budget. Adelaide Hills for example has (at the momment) $19365 in the budget t orun everything PLUS become fully capable to get this extra $10k. Mind you to help with this, Region is helping to fund hte start up of 2 of the 4 this year, the other 2 have to use their own budgets or wait til next year.Am I the only one that finds it hard to follow!?!?!?!
As for why USAR units get $10k while RCR gets only $1500. A large part of the USAR budget goes into supplies. Unlike other types of jobs we do, most of the USAR stuff is single use. There is only so many times you can cut a bit of wood.
is there any real way to fix the funding?? was not esau and safecom ment to have done this with the emergency service levy?? and did it work,well yes and no...How many people out there in the public have not paid their levy??? heaps and heaps...
I am coming into this discussion a little late.....
However, re funding...as of a few weeks ago, different CFS staff were giving differing views...one said there had been no cut to the CFS budget, the other said that the whole of Government had been told they had to cut their budget, and CFS was not immune to the cuts. BUT what wasn't clarified in this scenario, was if it was a budget cut in real terms (eg you get less money than last year) or if it just stays the same as last year, but with rising costs, it means less money.....?
As a separate issue to this, there will be a new funding model adopted across the whole State, in relation to funding Groups / brigades receive. I don't know the specifics of how it is going to work, other than it aims to allocate funds on a more equitable basis - so some Groups will loose money, while others will get a significant increase in their budget. A few will be about the same as now. After 5 years, there looks to finally be some attempts to re address the funding issues, still hanging over brigades / Groups, from when they were funded by Councils. (Eg Richer councils could afford to spend more money on CFS, than poorer councils, and those funding levels generally moved across to the ESAU model of the time).
As yet, I haven't seen any firm info as to CFS, as an organisation, will be getting a budget cut....
Pip
Having spent a few days in Adeliade last week and cathing up with some people from other areas it looks as if CFS is safe from funding cuts this year.The new system of allocating funds was going to come in this year but that has been put on hold...As of yet I or anyone else I have spoken to have seen any paperwork from H/Q.......