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General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: pete on May 01, 2006, 09:55:21 AM

Title: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: pete on May 01, 2006, 09:55:21 AM
Heard this may happen,does anyone know any different?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: probie_boy on May 01, 2006, 10:47:20 AM
it should happen logically.

shouldn't this be in the mfs thread?????
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 01, 2006, 10:59:37 AM
Logically? What are you basing that on? Call stats? Type of calls?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: probie_boy on May 01, 2006, 11:10:49 AM
just the fact that mt barker is now practically an independent city. The amount of houses/factories/shopping malls constitute having an MFS station IMO. Hell, if Loxton and other riverland towns have one, you think mt barker would.

hasn't this topic been discussed elsewhere? its part of another thread
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: fire03rescue on May 01, 2006, 11:56:07 AM
Look at the calls that the some CFA volunteer brigades do, they have no problems.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 01, 2006, 12:03:59 PM
Barker still have little trouble crewing it would appear. They can roll both pumpers (or to be pedantic, their pumper and their rescue)without much trouble. They just need to work on getting the next pumping resource responded a bit faster to jobs theyve flashed over :P

You cant really base it on which other towns have a MFS presence, as a lot of the retained mets in the country do less than 100 calls a year, yet you have numerous CFS brigades coping easily with 300+ calls a year.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: probie_boy on May 01, 2006, 01:38:21 PM
thats not my beef though toast. i don't understand why there should even be an MFS brigade there if there only doing 100 calls a year. like you said, some CFS brigades do up to 300 a year. so essentially the government are apying people that do less work than some volunteers. :?
I don't see the logic
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Scania_1 on May 01, 2006, 04:28:39 PM
The powers that be may wait 18 months or so and see how Mt Gambier goes with day staffing?? Before making any changes to the current arrangements in Mt Barker. You think Mt Barker would need CFS to look after Wistow and the Freeway etc anyway.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: PF_ on May 01, 2006, 05:15:26 PM
If they make one it means there is better chance of getting into the MFS and cause there is an extra station to staff. :-P
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 02, 2006, 12:22:50 AM
Dont forget about the insane cost of setting up a new MFS Station. Youve got A)the Building B) The appliance/stowage and then finally C) Wages for a new full time crew. Its not really something that youd think safecom will jump at. Considering I believe that there are more plans for other stations around the seaford area? As well as rebuilding the Glen Osmond station among others.

Probie, I was being kind when I said 100 calls, the average would be around half that if not less.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 02, 2006, 12:27:13 AM
IMO, placing an MFS station near Anembo park (L/H side of freeway) is a smart move. They can cover Mount Barker, Littlehampton and Hahndorf, while Mount Barker CFS can be downgraded to simply a rural station to cover Wistow, Mt barker Springs and any other open paddocks that happen to be in the area... Naturally, the government won't do this for a good while, and they have no reason to while Mount Barker CFS are doing their job well. But it does make a lot of sense public safety wise...
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: pumprescue on May 03, 2006, 04:52:59 PM
Just a query to Toast, how many CFS brigades can get two trucks out the door 95% of the time like Barker seem to do. I believe they have gone 3 weeks with one call, so why would MFS want to go there right now.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 03, 2006, 05:16:59 PM
Quote from: pumprescue on May 03, 2006, 04:52:59 PM
I believe they have gone 3 weeks with one call, so why would MFS want to go there right now.
Getting to slack off for that long, why wouldn't MFS want to be there? :P ;)
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 03, 2006, 06:06:22 PM
Quote from: pumprescue on May 03, 2006, 04:52:59 PM
Just a query to Toast, how many CFS brigades can get two trucks out the door 95% of the time like Barker seem to do. I believe they have gone 3 weeks with one call, so why would MFS want to go there right now.

If you read my posts, I'm not suggesting that MFS would want to move to Barker in fact quite the opposite. In terms of Mt. Barkers response, I've certainly got no issues. We would be a better service on the whole if we could consistantly crew multiple truckss, even in the middle of the day.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 03, 2006, 06:49:34 PM
I think that comes at a cost too though Toast.  They use a rostering system which can be interpreted as quite a bit more restrictive than the usual volunteer systems...
While they can always get a truck (or 2) out the door, it means the volunteers have to commit to staying in the area. 
I know this works well for them, and they obviously don't have a problem with it, but I wouldn't want to have that in my brigade. I think one of the things I appreciate most about the CFS is that you don't have to go to a call out, if you're in the middle of something important, its your decision if you go, not someone else's, so its all that more satisfying...
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: PF_ on May 03, 2006, 08:43:02 PM
At least 2 trucks have to roll to each fire.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: strikeathird on May 03, 2006, 09:03:53 PM
Whats the average crew for each truck ? (With the rostering system)

Does the rostering system work ?  (For any Barker Members that may want to answer..)

In my opinion, CFS are fine up there...
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: fire03rescue on May 04, 2006, 08:22:21 AM
Ahhh, why is are people picking on Mt Barker with all the questions.
Take a look in your own backyard
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 04, 2006, 09:17:17 AM
I don't think anyone's picking on Mt Barker, if anything they are praising them, and wanting to learn from how they do it...
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: PF_ on May 04, 2006, 09:44:38 AM
We only pick on Mt Gambier. :-P

(joke)
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 04, 2006, 12:40:13 PM
Learn about their rostering system *before* commenting CFS_firey
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Mike on May 04, 2006, 01:18:11 PM
Quote from: CFS_firey on May 03, 2006, 06:49:34 PM
I think that comes at a cost too though Toast.  They use a rostering system which can be interpreted as quite a bit more restrictive than the usual volunteer systems...
While they can always get (or 2) out the door, it means the volunteers have to commit to staying in the area. 
I know this works well for them, and they obviously don't have a problem with it, but I wouldn't want to have that in my brigade. I think one of the things I appreciate most about the CFS is that you don't have to go to a call out, if you're in the middle of something important, its your decision if you go, not someone else's, so its all that more satisfying...

When I hink of a rostering system the same thoughts as CFS_Firey come to mind, however should these ideas be somewhat skewed.... please feel free to enlighten us.....
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 04, 2006, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Toast on May 04, 2006, 12:40:13 PM
Learn about their rostering system *before* commenting CFS_firey
How does their system work?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: probie_boy on May 04, 2006, 02:43:39 PM
yeah, toast, you must be able to shed some light???????
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: scotty on May 04, 2006, 03:59:58 PM
With Barkers roster system, firstly no one is forced to be on there night time roster. Each night they have only 9 crew rostered between 8.00pm and 6.00am that respond to any calls (2 appliances),if more crew or appliances are req they a paged. I think you will find it very rare that they don't have 9 people wanting to be on the roster for any given night.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 04, 2006, 04:03:49 PM
scotty, if you are on the roster, do you have to stay in the area?  for example, if your mate invites you over at the last minute, and he's out of your district, can you page yourself offline and go, or do you need to stay in the area?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: PF_ on May 04, 2006, 04:47:30 PM
"if more crew are required they get paged"

So theres 9 people at the station all day?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: medevac on May 04, 2006, 05:56:36 PM
There is a roster of nine ppl who respond to all original pages, if more crew are required mount barker ring MFS and ask for a page to be sent to the brigade saying "a-shift respond" (i believe, have seen it before)
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: PF_ on May 04, 2006, 06:08:52 PM
Confusing.  WHy cant they just do it the normal way and have everyone rock up and choose a crew etc.  NoIM not bagging it toast just seems confusing way to do things.  Probably simple when you get to understand it though.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: medevac on May 04, 2006, 06:40:43 PM
seems pretty simple if ya ask me...
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: strikeathird on May 04, 2006, 07:07:45 PM
Dont know if the rostering system would be my preferance.. but I have done it the "old" or "Normal" or if some people see it as un-normal way, for years.. (The pager drops.. who ever is around and can go, goes..)

But hey, if it works. .. Go for it !  If it is allowing the community to get a trained and diligent emergency service out the door.. They sweet...  Run with what ever works I say !  And by the sounds of it.. It is working.


And toast and fire03rescue.. give it a rest.. No one is having a go... Don't get so defensive over nothing.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: rescue5271 on May 04, 2006, 07:45:49 PM
What works some some may not work for others but good on them,mind you some retain MFS stations use the same system..
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: pumprescue on May 04, 2006, 08:31:17 PM
If someone is unavailable on shift don't Mt Barker members just put a page out asking if someone can cover B shift, you always see pagers go out on the pager website. People would have mates ring up all the time or work as well so is a good system to give people a break and also have back up if you cannot be there.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 05, 2006, 02:02:19 AM
Yep. As mentioned here already, they run 'A shift' which is everyone available (or 'normal' for us non roster people) and 'B shift' Which is a rostered crew for two appliances. 'B shift' usually covers nights, but if the roster cant be covered, I believe it then just reverts to an 'A shift' response.

Its rather easy, I believe. You let it be known when youre available, then there is the chance that you will be rostered on the times/nights you have shown to be available. If rostered, then you are to stay in the area and trun up, when turned out. The roster can be changed, hence you see pages like 'So and so unavailable until B shift' or 'Can someone cover B shift, blah blah'

For further crewing, they can page out further. Please note, I'm not a member of Barker, and there are members who cruise these boards once in a while. Feel free to correct me...

Roster systems can work, and theirs does. It ensures that you have the correctly trained persons on the appliances, and you *know* who is coming. For those that ask 'why bother?' This morning we turned out to a paged as RCR job with 3 crew, none of whom held any rank higher than FF, nor were they qualified RCR operators. Mind you, before you jump on me for that, there were two other brigades responded, MFS were on scene and there were no persons trapped. But still... out of 40 odd 'active' crew...

So, all in all, roster systems atleast allow you to almost guarantee a crew - something that needs to be seriously looked at by brigades with crewing issues.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 05, 2006, 01:30:13 PM
So how is that not "having" to respond? If you're on B shift you are committed to go, and hence don't have a choice other than when you put your name down for it...

As far as the job you spoke about, if only 3 people responded, whats to say that they weren't the only crew in the area at the time?  And if thats the case, having a rostering system that ensures members stay in the area would be restrictive, no matter what way you look at it.

Just want to confirm again that I'm not having a go at Mt Barker, or they way they do it, I'm just saying I wouldn't want it for myself! ;)
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: rescue5271 on May 06, 2006, 07:46:32 AM
Was talking to a MFS guy and he said that the MFS had been asked by members of the MOUNT BARKER brigade to open a station in the MOUNT BARKER area as they where having problems manning there fleet??? anyone know anything.. This MFS guy was a reatin member from murray bridge........
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: PF_ on May 06, 2006, 08:43:56 AM
I think Mount BArker just want a brand new Scania truck.  :-D
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: rescue5271 on May 06, 2006, 02:04:48 PM
Tell them they can send the type two to Naracoorte and they can have our pumper....
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on May 06, 2006, 02:09:25 PM
Whats your pumper like blinky??? What size pump does it run??? Does it fulfill your brigades needs???
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: rescue5271 on May 06, 2006, 02:16:52 PM
Its not a bad pumper has a rust problem that comes and goes after we spend money on it,pump is a waterous PTO it does a great job and has not in the 7 years I have been here let us down. Holds 2000lts of water,100lts of bfff and 100lts of afff and yes we have empty both tanks of foam not so long ago at a fire.... All in all this would make a good state spare pumper. We would like a type two pumper and may be one day we may get it......
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: probie_boy on May 06, 2006, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: P F on May 06, 2006, 08:43:56 AM
I think Mount BArker just want a brand new Scania truck.  :-D


yeah it would fit perfectly next to this bad boy
(http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~mcgod/cfs_appliances/page1photos/1-hazmatnairne-Dsc_6321.jpg)
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: rescue5271 on May 06, 2006, 03:59:04 PM
Is that a pumper?? looks like a ice cream truck :mrgreen:lol
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 06, 2006, 04:18:01 PM
THAT is a pumper. Albeit a second hand imported one... but yeah.

IM not too sure about the Mt Barker CFS asking for MFS to move in. From what I've heard, the brigade isnt too crash hot about the whole thing. but then again "Mount Barker CFS" may have been CFS corporate, so who knows.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: strikeathird on May 06, 2006, 11:28:58 PM
Dont know bout Mt Barker asking MFS to move in.. that sounds very odd...


Can you confirm this story ?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: probie_boy on May 08, 2006, 10:45:52 AM
Quote from: Toast on May 06, 2006, 04:18:01 PM
but then again "Mount Barker CFS" may have been CFS corporate, so who knows.

don't forget that region 1 HQ is now in mt barker. Maybe they had something to do with it?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: medevac on May 08, 2006, 06:16:06 PM
i think we may all be talking crap?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: PF_ on May 08, 2006, 08:34:34 PM
thats what forums are for medical evacuation, to talk crap.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 09, 2006, 12:33:51 AM
Im sorry, how are we talking more crap than usual?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: 24P on May 09, 2006, 06:38:37 AM
Anyway why is it always Mt Barker,  there are probably a few other brigades that have nearly as much risk in their area but no mention is made of them being replace by the MFS.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 09, 2006, 04:57:47 PM
Good point 24P.  As can be seen in the Busiest Brigades thread, the MFS should be looking at Dalkieth, Salisbury and Morphett Vale before Mt Barker (Although most of them dual respond with MFS anyway)
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Toast on May 09, 2006, 05:14:09 PM
Why does call count = MFS!

The assessment should be done on the risks present in the area. If a brigade does 100 grassfires, 100 alarms, and 100 MVA's all of a minor nature, why should the MFS move in? Just because they are above a certain number?
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: PF_ on May 09, 2006, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: CFS_firey on May 09, 2006, 04:57:47 PM
Good point 24P.  As can be seen in the Busiest Brigades thread, the MFS should be looking at Dalkieth, Salisbury and Morphett Vale before Mt Barker (Although most of them dual respond with MFS anyway)

There already is MFS at Salisburty and Dalkeith is very close to ELizabeth.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 09, 2006, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: Toast on May 09, 2006, 05:14:09 PM
Why does call count = MFS!

The assessment should be done on the risks present in the area. If a brigade does 100 grassfires, 100 alarms, and 100 MVA all of a minor nature, why should the MFS move in? Just because they are above some arbitrary number?

Because no matter how trivial the calls are, you can't expect volunteers to give up that much time for free. Naturally, special risks should also be taken into account, but once a brigade is getting 350-400 calls a year, you have to ask how they can be expected to keep that up without something extra... (Maybe the CFS should offer extra funding to the really busy brigades? :P)
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: Firefrog on May 09, 2006, 08:05:50 PM
CFS does fund busy brigades more highly. If a brigade is large and is happy doing 350+ a year then I say good on them. They should be allowed to continue :-D
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: strikeathird on May 09, 2006, 08:37:26 PM
Quote from: Toast on May 09, 2006, 05:14:09 PM
Why does call count = MFS!

The assesment should be done on the risks present in the area. If a bigade does 100 grassfires, 100 alarms, and 100 MVA all of a minor nature, why should the MFS move in? Just because they are above some arbitary number?

Quite simply mate, cause no one wants to be prepared to stand infront of the Coroner explaining why the truck didnt go... (Not realising we are all vollies).. and coming back with the fact that the Risks were known, they warranted Paid crews, and yet none were installed...


At the end of the day.. if the risk gets too high... The change will have to happen..

(Not saying i agree, just saying thats how I think it will go).
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: rusty on May 12, 2006, 06:10:49 AM
There are some Vic CFA Brigades that easily do over 600 calls a year - fully volunteer. These Brigades meet their response criteria - to reach 90% of their calls within the alloted time frame in their response area. They (like Mt Barker) are forward thinking enough to roster their crews to ensure that they maintain adequate fire coverage. But, they also have a bigger vol base to call upon, and are better funded (that's still way cheaper than paying full time crews). The CFA vols will also be the first to put their hand up and ask for paid staff assistance when required, either on a business hours basis or full-time, as public safety is number 2 (after f/f safety, of course  :wink:).
I don't believe that call rate or risk on their own should dictate the need for full time firefighters. If a Brigade is concerned that they might be "taken over" then perhaps they need to look at whether they are providing the best fire/rescue coverage, or, instead of bleating about it, become proactive and do something about improving their service levels. Mt Barker do a Stirling job..  :-D keep up the good work!
IMO.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: TillerMan on May 12, 2006, 11:54:21 AM
yes the mt barker shift system works and it works well, it has 9 people on it to allow for 1 or 2 people that may happen to be in the loo or in the middle of "talking" to their mrs.And yes there is a button on their decoder for 'A' shift responce.

i was told that if M.F.S do move up there that the brigade would like there to be 1 full time crew and 1 or 2 retained crew so that the current C.F.S members could join that, that may be where the confusion over them wanting M.F.S to move in is coming from.
Title: Re: Mount Barker MFS
Post by: rescue5271 on May 12, 2006, 08:05:25 PM
There is more to it,the MFS may have the land but the state government must first approve the change to the MFS boundary before the MFS can open a station....