With the cost of fuel now $138.9 lt do you feel that CFS should help volunteers in getting a discount on fuel for attending call outs. Dont take this the wrong way out here in the country some members have to do a round trip of say 30/40 to get to the shed to attend call outs and training its ok for those members that live close to there stations that are busy or in a urban area....
Now I think and I could be wrong but CFS does not pay full price for cost of fuel for its fleet,with summer not too far away and with brigades doing training is it not tine for CFS to help in some way its VOLUNTEER members....
Some groups re-emburse members for travel to meetings. Not sure if it happens for travel to station for a call outs tho.
Adam
I wouldn't complain if they contributed to fuel costs... The CFS re-imbursements for training / meetings are 52c a kilometer (4 cylinders), so for volunteers that do a 30/40km round trip to the station would be "loosing" at least $15 per call :(
When You Think About The Amount Of Driving We Do To The Station (Training, Call Outs). I Think It Would Be A Good Idea, But Then How Do They Police It?
I Mean Meetings & Course's You Get The Fuel Allowance Forms, But The Every Day Cost Of Training & Call Outs Add Up.
One Of The Guys I Worked With Said Couldn't You Claim It On Tax, As The CFS Can Be Classed As A Second Job.
Would Love To Hear Suggestions Or Feedback.
May be we could ask the VFBA as they are ment to be our voice on the board,I do know of some brigades that help there members with fuel there has to be a answer. As for policing it well that would get back to the brigade captain and the region....
Quote from: CyberCitizen on September 07, 2005, 03:38:01 PM
When You Think About The Amount Of Driving We Do To The Station (Training, Call Outs). I Think It Would Be A Good Idea, But Then How Do They Police It?
I Mean Meetings & Course's You Get The Fuel Allowance Forms, But The Every Day Cost Of Training & Call Outs Add Up.
One Of The Guys I Worked With Said Couldn't You Claim It On Tax, As The CFS Can Be Classed As A Second Job.
Would Love To Hear Suggestions Or Feedback.
Just on the Tax thing, 'apparently' you don't have to declare the income from travel re-imbursment either.
Adam
Ambos effectively reimburse for calls..... they pay volunteers something like $2 a call..... maybe something along this theory?
There was a brief time when SAFECOM required us to complete tax dec forms as "casual employees" for fuel reimbursements to be paid and said that the amounts would need to have a group certificate generated and declared on tax returns.
After a lot of feedback from volunteers and a lot of hard work from staff in liasing with the tax office this was later overturned.
I think it would be good if CFS did pay you something for fuel, But if they started doing that for evey vollunteer then they would be forking out a fair bit of money. There fore you would end up losing money somewhere else. Which could mean that you might have to wait longer for you new truck or something because CFS cant afford it due to paying people fuel costs
I dont think it would cost CFS much as all goverment departments dont pay full price for fuel,I had a meeting last night and a captain had a round trip of 70kms and with fuel here at $139.9 it would have been nice to give him something for his time at the meeting...
But is the Captain claiming his entitled 52c/km for that trip?
I certainly claimed my 3 x 250km trips to Salt Creek to deliver training.
Quote from: Mike on September 08, 2005, 10:24:54 AM
Ambos effectively reimburse for calls..... they pay volunteers something like $2 a call..... maybe something along this theory?
SAAS pay volunteer Ambos $5 per call, but the Ambo has to ensure they send in the paperwork otherwsie they dont get it! Also SAAS pay the volunteer's employer something - not sure how much tho.
Adam
does it occur to you guys that you are volunteering to go to these calls... and these meetings. howver kat is correct, if the person has to travel 70km's then they are entitled to reimbursements, as is anyone attending train ing courses) - however i dont see a need for reimbursement for fuel to travel to the station... and yes i do only live 1km from my station so i realiase its a bit differant,
but the fact of the matter is if your not prepared to drive that distance to the station without reimbursement then dont attend the calls... because i dont think the CFS should have to fork out the millions of dollars this may equate to across the whole state every year... the budget wouldnt get increased,, it would just lose out in other areas.
I agree. With the exception of training courses / LONG travelling trips, I do not think you should be re-imbursed for travelling to the Station for calls / training nights, etc.
You are a volunteer, you do not have to drive if you do not want / can't afford it.
thanks strikeathird
Quote from: strikeathird on September 11, 2005, 02:04:32 PM
You are a volunteer, you do not have to drive if you do not want / can't afford it.
I think thats the point rescue5271 is trying to make... with the cost of petrol still going up, some volunteers may not be able to
afford going to the station.. maybe the CFS should be looking at this, just in case it gets to the point where a brigade can't get a crew... the same in a petrol shortage, CFS volunteers are allowed to keep filling their cars up (I think) so they can attend calls, rather than the government saying, "They are volunteers, if they use up their ration of petrol, then they shouldn't respond"...
However at the same time, I don't think the CFS should be paying for people petrol while they can still afford it, like you said, they are volunteers...
I really dislike that " your just a volunteer" as we are more than that we are a group of community minded people who provivde a service. My point is that in most cases yes people can afford to pay for the fuel,but what about single parents,students,and those who are on some goverment benefit who live on a farm and have to travel some distance to the station or group base....
Quote from: rescue5271 on September 12, 2005, 06:29:59 AMbut what about single parents,students,and those who are on some goverment benefit who live on a farm and have to travel some distance to the station or group base....
Its Funny As Alot Of The CFS Members Would Be These Type Of People.
Maybe we need to look a little wider and not just in our back yard.
How about those community minded people who provide VITAL services everyday to hundreds and hundreds of people both in the city and country areas - Meal on Wheels, Red Cross Volunteers, Hospital Volunteers, Nursing Home Volunteers, Council Volunteers - those who use their own vehicles to deliver food, people, products, goods and alike - do they get a fuel subsidy, reimbursement etc.....
Things might have changed, but a few years ago they didn't get a fuel subsidy, reimbursement etc, they did it to give back to the community, to help those who are less fortunate, to support their mates, neighbors and community.
If theres a suitbale model being used, then lets apply is across the Volunteer sector, to all Volunteers who help others in their communities.
Therefore, the Premier, who is the Volunteering minister may need a specific Volunteer fuel budget, to support all community groups.
After all we are all Volunteers, supporting Our communities :-D
I don't think it's fair to suggest our volunteers who work tireless hours under advesre conditions, often losing money from employment and spending their own money on equipment, PPE etc aren't community minded because they seek travel reimbursement. A Brigade in my old :-( group was 120km+ away and the Group Base itself where ALL meetings were held is over 50km away. (100km round trip). And if I leave work to go to a job where I am needed and of course miss the truck (and other resources are going to take as long to get there as me before you throw that one at me) I will drive 80kms just to get to the station and back let alone the 100km+ round trip that the job could be on top of that.
Now I already drive 700km+ a week just to get to work and childcare and back, there is only so much my budget can take! And there are not millions of others lined up at the gate conveniently waiting to spend the $ willingly for the benefit of the community. Interesting that so many of us are demanding decent equipment out of the government but think it's acceptable for vollies to be out of pocket :-)
vollies from other agencies around here generally have vehicles available to them to undertake their duties.
Quote from: oz fire on September 12, 2005, 09:37:37 AM
Therefore, the Premier, who is the Volunteering minister may need a specific Volunteer fuel budget, to support all community groups.
If the government re-imbersed volunteers the tax it charges on petrol, it wouldn't "cost" the government anything, we could all be happy :)
Slightly off topic but - rather than pay for fuel could we not exempt volunteer emergency service providers from the Emergency Services Levy??
As you can see we all have different views on this and its good to see,as for the point of other services like meals on wheels well down here they get paid for there fuel but also have access to goverment cars to do the job. I have also upset someone up the ladder as i was asked why did ya start a topic like this??? Well may be I feel its time that someone look into what other groups/brigades pay members to attend meetings with fuel and if I have upset someone WELL THIS IS MY VIEW AND MY VIEW ONLY so get of my case...
mmmmmmmm that feels better.
Thats disapointing to hear Bill. Nothing wrong with asking the question, after all, many world problem gets solved over a beer and a bbq! ;)
Distance is the key.... How about a defined limit where, if you live outside that area a set about per call is given. maybe a sliding scale km Vs $$. Costs may not be covered completely, but at least it helps....
Keeps the ideas comming! :D
personally i cant erven believe the topic ws raised here...
there already exists a system where volunteers are re-imbursded for there fuel when driving to training that is pre-organised.... it would just defeat the whole spirit of the organisation to start paying us (in effect this would be what it is, becasue honestly whos car actually costs them 52cents per kilometre to run??)
Quote from: firetruck on September 12, 2005, 08:04:30 PM
because honestly who's car actually costs them 52cents per kilometer to run??)
Actually, that figure is the average of how much it costs are car to run... Once you pay for petrol, servicing (Every 6 months) plus changing tires, and the big repair job every so often, it equates to about that... I believe if you ring the RAA they can give you the estimated cost for your make/model/age of car. (It's a surprise)
Quote from: rescue5271 on September 12, 2005, 04:10:01 PM
As you can see we all have different views on this and its good to see,as for the point of other services like meals on wheels well down here they get paid for there fuel but also have access to goverment cars to do the job. I have also upset someone up the ladder as i was asked why did ya start a topic like this??? Well may be I feel its time that someone look into what other groups/brigades pay members to attend meetings with fuel and if I have upset someone WELL THIS IS MY VIEW AND MY VIEW ONLY so get of my case...
mmmmmmmm that feels better.
Bill, who ever the person "up the chain" is, tell them to GET Or, tell the User to PM me, and I will do it for you. You have EVERY right to voice your own opinion, and to the person who is using this forum to spy / observe / gather intel, go blow it out! People have every right to voice their own opinion on an open FORUM !
Sorry admin/Mods, but I believe that needed to be said, especially if members are feeling the pressure for voicing their own opinion !
Hey strikeathird, understand that you feel very strongly about the thought of forum contributors being censured for their opinions but please respect the language rules of the forum :-)
Cheers!
Quote from: firetruck on September 12, 2005, 08:04:30 PM
personally i cant erven believe the topic ws raised here...
Is this because you disagree with it :-)
I disagree with a large amount of posts on this and other forums but I'm glad they're raised and respect the views of the posters!
Although I'm sure all of us are in the service as a serious commitment to community safety, some also get a lot of enjoyment and recreation out of it and view it as a hobby and mightn't mind being out of pocket for the experience. I don't disrespect anyone who feels that they shouldn't have to be out of pocket as well as out of time, peace of mind, family harmony etc :-)
yes because i disagree with it and thinks its a strange idea that we all know will never be adopted by CFS
There are a lot of strange ideas that will never be adpoted by CFS raised in these forums :-) Like proper urban appliances :-)
Gotta keep trying :-)
I didn't think that a single letter followed by * (asterix's) was considered coarse language...
:P
Its been there for over a fortnight... No one complained.....
Ahh well.
Just trying to comply with the reasonable request of the List Administrator as per the previous post quoted below:
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Regards
Meh.
:mrgreen:
There is one key difference between what we do as volunteers in SES/CFS/SLSA & most other areas of volunteering in SA. Everyone is paying for the service we provide. Directly, via the ESL.
It's just that the volunteers pay three times while the rest of the community only pays once. We pay our ESL, plus we pay whatever it costs to be an active member, plus many of us pay in lost income while actually providing the service we are paying for. (a bit like paying a mechanic while fixing the car yourself.)
The very least the state could do is waive active members' ESL (active as defined in the CFS Regs).
Meeting the out-of-pocket costs of membership would be better. I suggest that the costs incurred by a member of a busy urban brigade would be quite similar to a less busy rural or rural/urban brigade. 200 responses at 2km return is just as far as 20km return for 20 responses.
If the ESL has to be lifted to do so, so be it. WA recently lifted its ESL rate & made no apology for doing so. Simply pointed out that it costs money to provide the services, and that costs have risen.
Actually, I think the ESL needs increasing anyway so that CFS can catch up on station & appliance replacement. But that's a whole 'nuther thread.
cheers
AAJ
there's a comment in today's 'Tiser that Meals on Wheels pay their volunteer delivery people a petrol allowance, and that they are about to increase it to cover increased fuel prices. Doesn't make their deliverers any less 'volunteers' for having some of their costs met.
FACS / FAYS also pay their volunteers costs. Doesn't make them any less 'volunteers' either.
There was a big conflab in NSW a few years ago about volunteering. One of the things which came out of it was a "Volunteer Charter", an article of which was that volunteer organisations should meet the reasonable out-of-pocket costs of their volunteers. That big gathering didn't seem to think that meeting costs makes members any less 'volunteers' either.
So I think the claim that having our costs reimbursed would undermine our volunteer ethic is a Furphy.
cheers
AAJ
While waiving the ESL for volunteers has its merits, I believe it would cause more problems than it would solve. It is also a heck of a lot of money which no longer goes to support the services.
I try to look at it tis way, I don't spend every weekend cooking BBQ's or rattling tins at the shopping centre like I used to before ESL, so what the hey! More time at home.
Also, has there really been that many complaints from members of the ESO's? I haven't heard many.