SA Firefighter

General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: uniden on November 23, 2007, 02:03:32 PM

Title: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: uniden on November 23, 2007, 02:03:32 PM
There was an article in the Advertiser on Tuesday about the new weight restrictions on some Murray River ferries. Someone stated that CFS appliances wouldnt be able to use the ferries due to the 12 tonne limit being applied to some of the ferries. It was stated that many CFS appliances weigh around 20 tonnes. Forgive me if I am wrong but I believe that most CFS units would be well under 15 tonne. Apart from the Tankers. Cant see too many dramas with the majority of appliances on the ferry.
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: rescue5271 on November 23, 2007, 02:06:26 PM
The other issue was the declining water level in the river,time for some hovercraft fire trucks....or send more 14 into those areas...
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: mack on November 23, 2007, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: uniden on November 23, 2007, 02:03:32 PM
There was an article in the Advertiser on Tuesday about the new weight restrictions on some Murray River ferries. Someone stated that CFS appliances wouldnt be able to use the ferries due to the 12 tonne limit being applied to some of the ferries. It was stated that many CFS appliances weigh around 20 tonnes. Forgive me if I am wrong but I believe that most CFS units would be well under 15 tonne. Apart from the Tankers. Cant see too many dramas with the majority of appliances on the ferry.

believe our standard 24 is 16tonne....
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Pipster on November 23, 2007, 02:17:00 PM
Almost all CFS appliances (excluding Tankers) weigh under 15 tonne....

The mid 1990's 24's - one of which is in my brigade, weighs 9 tonne, excluding crew....

The 1990's style 34's are a little heavier...I think around 12 - 13 tonne.... I would expect the current batch of new 34's to be around that weight as well... certainly not 20 tonne!!

Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: mack on November 23, 2007, 02:21:10 PM
Quote from: pipster on November 23, 2007, 02:17:00 PM
weighs 9 tonne, excluding crew....


ahhh well that explains my extra 7 tonne... hehehe
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on November 23, 2007, 03:53:09 PM
Quote from: mack on November 23, 2007, 02:21:10 PM
Quote from: pipster on November 23, 2007, 02:17:00 PM
weighs 9 tonne, excluding crew....


ahhh well that explains my extra 7 tonne... hehehe

Sounds like you need to start loosing some weight Mack  :roll: :lol:
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: backburn on November 23, 2007, 03:57:38 PM
Have heard that some ferris are going to close down soon.
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: rescue5271 on November 23, 2007, 04:01:57 PM
Yes some ferries are closing from Monday and all this is due to no water in the river was talking to a mate who works for TSA and he said things will be hard no only for emergency vehicles but the public and transport in general.One would hope that CFS have come up with a plan to provide fire cover to some of these area's???
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on November 23, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
Hope your 24 doesn't weigh 16 tonnes mack as the MR licenced drivers would be breaching their licence. :-P :lol:

Our newer 34 comes in at about 13, the GVM isn't much more than that either
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: mack on November 23, 2007, 08:13:47 PM
Quote from: Mundcfs on November 23, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
Hope your 24 doesn't weigh 16 tonnes mack as the MR licenced drivers would be breaching their licence. :-P :lol:

Our newer 34 comes in at about 13, the GVM isn't much more than that either


mmm im not sure where i have come up with the 16tonne then..... ill have to keep thinking.. haha
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: 6739264 on November 23, 2007, 08:47:24 PM
Quote from: Mundcfs on November 23, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
Hope your 24 doesn't weigh 16 tonnes mack as the MR licenced drivers would be breaching their licence. :-P :lol:

Our newer 34 comes in at about 13, the GVM isn't much more than that either
Wait a second, I drive a 16 ton red truck on a MR license....
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Pipster on November 23, 2007, 08:57:12 PM
Since you have admitted that, you'd better tell me where to send your "on the spot fine" for driving on an inappropriate licence !!    :evil:

Pip
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: 6739264 on November 23, 2007, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: pipster on November 23, 2007, 08:57:12 PM
Since you have admitted that, you'd better tell me where to send your "on the spot fine" for driving on an inappropriate licence !!    :evil:

Pip

Two Axles, GVM greater than 8 tonnes, Im safe!
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Pipster on November 23, 2007, 09:10:56 PM
But it needs to be under 15 tonnes.....   :evil:
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Zippy on November 23, 2007, 09:20:35 PM
i did gasp at the sight of "17 tonne load limit" on the chassis of our 34P lol...but its a MR vehicle since its not tri-axle.  :evil:
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: 6739264 on November 23, 2007, 09:22:08 PM
Quote from: pipster on November 23, 2007, 09:10:56 PM
But it needs to be under 15 tonnes.....   :evil:
Fine fine, how does 14.15 ton suit you?
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Shiner on November 23, 2007, 09:38:52 PM
Those brigades that might be affected should of already, or shortly be receiving communication from the Department for Transport, Energy and Infrastructure.

The only ferry currently in danger of closing permanently is the Mannum Upstream ferry and seeing as there is another ferry within 10m of the closed one, there should not be an issue for emergency vehicles etc.

The others that are at risk will only close when conditions are such that they cannot operate and this is normally due to wind direction.  The water levels can vary up to 300mm depending on wind direction.  This may affect ferries such as Tailem Bend and Swan Reach.

If I was in work at the moment, I could get the full press release that was issued today regarding this, but suffice to say that the department realises the severity of this issue and is working with all concerned (eg school busses etc) to try and cover all the potential issues to the community.

It will not be easy though!

If you are in a brigade concerned and have not heard anything, have a chat with your local ferry operator, they may sort something with you directly, or put you in contact with the relevant people at the department (Transport Services based in Murray Bridge) - won't put the names and numbers here, PM me if you want them.
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on November 24, 2007, 06:52:07 AM
Thank god for the bridge down here as we would have been in trouble a while ago
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Crank on November 24, 2007, 07:21:32 AM
Quote from: pipster on November 23, 2007, 09:10:56 PM
But it needs to be under 15 tonnes.....   :evil:

I dont mean to argue with a police officer but

Class: MR (previous classes: LT, LB) the holder may drive

    * any motor vehicle covered by class LR
    * any motor vehicle with 2 axles and a GVM greater than 8000 kg
      eg 2 axle trucks, tippers and buses.

    * 3 axle motor vehicles, but only where the GVM is 8000 kg or less
    * any special purpose vehicle with two or more axles and an unladen mass not exceeding 15000 kg
    * medium articulated vehicles, provided the GVM of the towing vehicle does not exceed 8000 kg

may tow

    * any farm implement or any trailer with a GVM not exceeding 9000 kg, provided it is within the GCM of the towing vehicle

may not drive

    * an articulated motor vehicle where the GVM of the towing vehicle exceeds 8000 kg
    * the combination of a vehicle and trailer where the GVM of the trailer exceeds 9000 kg
    * motor bikes or motor trikes

Minimum age/driving experience

    * must have held a class C Driver's Licence for at least one year
      Driver's Licence must be carried if driving a vehicle over 8000 kg GVM.


Posted from Transport SA Site.
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: rescue5271 on November 24, 2007, 09:31:34 AM
Hey Al,time for a satelight station over that bridge......
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: backburn on November 24, 2007, 10:25:14 AM
Quote from: Shiner on November 23, 2007, 09:38:52 PM
Those brigades that might be affected should of already, or shortly be receiving communication from the Department for Transport, Energy and Infrastructure.

The only ferry currently in danger of closing permanently is the Mannum Upstream ferry and seeing as there is another ferry within 10m of the closed one, there should not be an issue for emergency vehicles etc.

The others that are at risk will only close when conditions are such that they cannot operate and this is normally due to wind direction.  The water levels can vary up to 300mm depending on wind direction.  This may affect ferries such as Tailem Bend and Swan Reach.

If I was in work at the moment, I could get the full press release that was issued today regarding this, but suffice to say that the department realises the severity of this issue and is working with all concerned (eg school busses etc) to try and cover all the potential issues to the community.

It will not be easy though!

If you are in a brigade concerned and have not heard anything, have a chat with your local ferry operator, they may sort something with you directly, or put you in contact with the relevant people at the department (Transport Services based in Murray Bridge) - won't put the names and numbers here, PM me if you want them.


I was wondering about the Ferry at Lyurp,Morgan and Cadell
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on November 24, 2007, 09:15:48 PM
Quote from: rescue5271 on November 24, 2007, 09:31:34 AM
Hey Al,time for a satelight station over that bridge......

Could almost do that we have four members who live over there!

Nah it's only 5 mins drive to the marina and another 10 mins after that to the houses up the other end.
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Shiner on November 27, 2007, 08:30:34 AM
Here you all go, copy of the press release issued recently with some supporting notes.
Note that the 12-Ton limit has not been chosen as an 'absolute' max weight, the issues are due to the ground clearances and angles created by/at the ferry by heavier or low-slung vehicles.  A letter is currently being drafted to send to all of the contractors that operate the ferries regarding this issue.

Media Release

Friday, 16 November 2007

DROPPING RIVER LEVELS THREATEN FERRY SERVICES

The drought's impact on the River Murray will be further felt with the upstream Mannum Ferry to close as soon as next week - the first of six now under threat from dropping river levels.

DTEI's Director of Road and Traffic Management, Flett Steele said the situation is now reached a point where this service will have to be suspended soon for the safety of all users.

"The on-going drought conditions have left us with little choice but to prepare everyone in the area that Mannum upstream ferry will have to close," Mr Steele said.

"Fortunately the downstream service remains viable and by increasing the number of people working on this service during busy periods it is our intention to reduce any delays that may be experienced."

"However, we must also be prepared for the potential impacts on other ferries downstream of Lock 1."

Falling river levels are the primary reason services are impacted and a 12 tonne weight restriction is applied – predominantly applying to semi trailers and truck/trailer combinations.

Based on river level modelling ferries at Tailem Bend, Walker Flat, Purnong, Swan Reach will soon be subject to such weight restrictions.

Predicted weight restrictions are likely to be effective from:

   December 2007   Tailem Bend      (Alternative – Swanport Bridge)
   January 2008      Walker Flat, Purnong  (Alternative – Blanchetown/Swanport Bridge)
   March 2008      Swan Reach      (Alternative – Blanchetown Bridge)

Wellington and Narrung ferry services should continue to operate unrestricted for now.

"It is vitally important we give all stakeholders the opportunity to be as prepared as possible because the reality is river levels continue to drop," Mr Steele said.

"Any vehicles above the 12 tonne weight limit will need to make contingency plans."

The Department for Transport, Energy and Infrastructure will work with emergency services, primary producers and school bus operators through this period.

At this stage ferry services above Lock 1 will not be affected.

It is important to note that at this point only the upstream ferry at Mannum will be affected and the other ferry at Mannum will continue to operate without restrictions.

As well, the drought effect predictions are based on the worst case scenario provided by DWLBC and as experience at Mannum has shown, these effects can be delayed if weather conditions are milder than anticipated.

One other influence on these predictions is the additional effect of prevailing winds.  North winds can temporarily lower the River level by up to 300mm and conversely winds from the South can temporarily raise the River level by up to 300mm.

PUBLICITY

The Department for Transport Energy and Infrastructure has a communications plan to advise those most likely to be significantly inconvenienced by restrictions to the ferry service.

This plan includes:

   Emergency Services (CFS, SES, SAAS, SAPOL)
   Local Councils
   Department for Education and Children's Services and the Passenger Transport Board re: school bus access
   Local Schools
   Local communities
   Local transport operators

This communication is provided either directly via email/fax/telephone or indirectly through media releases.

Part of the plan includes the establishment of additional signs temporarily located at strategic points on roads in the affected area giving advice of disruptions and providing alternative River crossing routes. This plan is now in its final stages of introduction.

Information updates on drought effects on the ferry system will be provided as the situation changes.

Finally the Department is in the process of establishing a web site that will provide general information on the ferry system and will include any publicity on drought effects and disruptions.


A  FEW FACTS

   Normal pool level of the Lower Lakes is 0.75 mm
   Murray Darling Basin Commission weekly report advises pool level for week ending 14 November was 0.12 (a drop of 0.63)
   On current DWLBC river level predictions the upstream ferry at Mannum is the only one where service will be suspended.
   There will be a 12tonne weight restriction applied at Tailem Bend, Purnong, Walker Flat and Swan Reach but these ferries will otherwise remain in operation.
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Mike on November 27, 2007, 08:38:48 AM
Judging by the comments given, it seems people think there is no upper weight limit on a MR licence....

Quotenot exceeding 15000 kg

My understanding was all appliances were based on a 13T chassis. For memory (and i will have to check) the 16T figure may come from the rated attachment point in the bullbar on the new 34's.....

Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: mengcfs on November 27, 2007, 09:23:43 AM
Had a check last night. Meningie's new 34P is 13.5T
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: mack on November 27, 2007, 12:14:20 PM
mmm our 24p is 12.5 roughly apparently... good thing theres no ferries near us ;)
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: SA Firey on November 30, 2007, 12:48:31 PM
Quote from: mack on November 27, 2007, 12:14:20 PM
mmm our 24p is 12.5 roughly apparently... good thing theres no ferries near us ;)

Just empty quarter of a tank of water and you'll be right Mack :lol:
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: allan on December 10, 2007, 07:25:56 AM
In respect of truck licence categories, I speak from Vict. experience however generally speaking the standards are the same Aust. wide. (Although there a few exceptions! Just to confuse us!).

It is correct that a Medium Rigid truck licence will allow you to drive any vehicle of any weight - so long as it has only two axles!!!

BUT (and herein lies the 'practical' limit) - subject to the manufacturer's ratings not being exceeded, the weight limit for a steering axle fitted with two tyres is 6.0 tonnes (although if fitted with special equipment may be permitted to carry 6.5), and the weight limit for a single axle fitted with 4 tyres is 9.0 tonnes.

Hence the so-called 15 tonne limit (6 + 9) for a Medium Rigid licence.

Note also that '15 tonnes and over GVM' (ie. not the actual weight, but the registered GVM) also is the point at which BAC of 0.00 kicks in - not just when operating Code One (lights/ sirens) - but all the time!

There are a few vehicles (not many that also have only a single axle rear axle) that have the steering axle upgrade, hence the theoretical limit for a Medium Rigid licence is 15.5 tonnes. I'll also admit that there are some specialist mobile cranes that have 4 tyres on both axles - whilst I have no experience with them, I'd presume that their maximum is 18 tonnes GVM (subject to manufacturer's specifications)?
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: SA Firey on December 10, 2007, 07:35:02 AM
Class: MR (previous classes: LT, LB) the holder may drive

any motor vehicle covered by class LR

any motor vehicle with 2 axles and a GVM greater than 8000 kg
eg 2 axle trucks, tippers and buses.

3 axle motor vehicles, but only where the GVM is 8000 kg or less

any special purpose vehicle with two or more axles and an unladen mass not exceeding 15000 kg

medium articulated vehicles, provided the GVM of the towing vehicle does not exceed 8000 kg
may tow
any farm implement or any trailer with a GVM not exceeding 9000 kg, provided it is within the GCM of the towing vehicle
may not drive
an articulated motor vehicle where the GVM of the towing vehicle exceeds 8000 kg

the combination of a vehicle and trailer where the GVM of the trailer exceeds 9000 kg

motor bikes or motor trikes
Minimum age/driving experience
must have held a class C Driver's Licence for at least one year
Driver's Licence must be carried if driving a vehicle over 8000 kg GVM.

Found here http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/licences_certification/drivers/classifications.asp
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: RescueHazmat on December 10, 2007, 09:26:09 AM
^ Already posted, page one. :)
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Shiner on December 10, 2007, 10:50:41 AM
For info, for those of you in areas that may experience a ferry closure impacting on you, the following is a copy of the letter that has been sent by DTEI to all ferry operators/contractors with regards to operating under weight restrictions.  As mentioned before, if you are concerned, please talk to your local ferry operator first, if they are unable/unwilling to help/assist, ask them for further contact details of the relevant person here at the department, or PM me and I will give them to you......

OPERATION OF A VEHICULAR FERRY ACROSS THE RIVER MURRAY AT XXXXXXXXXX,
APPLICATION OF 12 TONNE WEIGHT RESTRICTION

The Department for Transport, Energy and Infrastructure advises that it may be necessary to impose a 12 tonne weight restriction to the ferry service.

A 12 tonne limit was selected for the safety of users and will allow the majority of local traffic such as light farm vehicles and local delivery vehicles to cross but deny access to heavier vehicles such as semi trailers and tandem drive vehicles with low under belly fuel tanks.

There is some flexibility with the 12 tonne limit to allow slightly heavier vehicles access to the ferry but in most cases, the limit should not exceed 15 tonne.

Prior to loading any heavy vehicle, operators will be required to check the following:

•   The landing is adjusted to the correct setting.

•   The vehicle does not have a low hanging fuel tank which may catch on the flap/landing area while loading or unloading.

•   The vehicle does not have a low crash bar fitted to the front or rear that may scrape and cause damage to the ramps, landing, and ferry during loading or unloading.

•   The weight of the vehicle loaded allows enough movement for the ferry flap to release from the landing and relatch when required (flap ram chains may need to be adjusted).

In emergency situations the wooden bus ramps may be used to help in raising the rear of a vehicle.

Access to the ferry should not be provided to any vehicle that may be damaged or cause damage while entering or exiting the ferry.

Directions need to be provided to the driver of the vehicle which is denied access to a more suitable crossing point.  The registration number and owner details must also be recorded in the ferry log. 
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: calspec on December 14, 2007, 09:36:13 PM
I suspect that the following may be of some interest.

"any special purpose vehicle with two or more axles and an unladen mass not exceeding 15000 kg"

Does a Fire Appliance come under the description of Special Purpose Vehicle???

:evil:
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: uniden on December 15, 2007, 09:08:55 AM
No a CFS appliance is not a special purpose vehicle. As they are built on commercially available chassis. Anyway the UL is nowhere near 15 tonnes anyway.
Title: Re: CFS appliances using ferries
Post by: Crank on December 15, 2007, 08:07:07 PM
special purpose may include a fireking?