New Burnside Pumper

[Rainer]

Gday all,

James , the main pump is definetly a Darley LSRH 1000 as is the auxillary (1.5 AGE) 18Hp Briggs&Stratton

It (the auxillary) supplies the Hp lines and the "halo" system in emergencies via an automatic incab system.

Cost difference between NSW type 2 and burnside Volvo is about $140K (Volvo about $480K)

Also im sure the Burnside guys would be more than happy to bring the truck around to your station for a show and tell when its commissioned.

Cheers
Rainer

[Zippy]

The Forefront of the CFS Lets wait and see. Good on ya guys and girls!

[pumprescue]

$480,000    bugger, thats the last one of those we will ever see. The 2007 type 2's were only $330,000 on the road ready to go I can't see CFS coming up with an extra $150,000, oh well, if only we old had fat bank accounts.

[Zippy]

its a 25-30 year lasting appliance that takes as long to save up for im guessing??   that is one massive achievement, providing burnside and the hills facezone with optimum fire cover and asset protection

[pumprescue]

Yeah, its good for them, but what about the rest that don't have huge bank accounts....what ever happened to everyone being equal now, isn't this a typical example of the old days pre-ESL where we have those with bucket loads of money getting top of the range gear, and those without getting the basic "what can be afforded" truck and some of us have to push you know what up hill to get even that !

I just find it outrageous that CFS allows brigades like Mt Barker, Millicent,Nuriootpa, Morphett Vale etc to get around in the bare basics, and less and then agree's to this very well specced pumper to be built for Burnside-----who essentially have nothing to speak of in their very small area, remember we can't use the MFS back up arguement, those of us that have worked on SFEC upgrades know full well about that !!

I am not having a go at Burnside at all, all the power to them for convincing the CFS to allow this, I just hope that this is not a once off, but for that kind of money, thats going to be the last and only one we see. Its not for lack of trying from some other brigades, but how the hell are we supposed to bargain when we don't have money to bargain with.  If CFS offers you a Type 2 what are you suppose to say "no thanks, we don't want one, we are going to hold out for something better" again, if you have no money and the risk to need a pumper what are you suppose to do.

Ps: I am sorry if I offend anyone, but thats how I feel.

[Cameron Yelland]

Gday all,

James , the main pump is definetly a Darley LSRH 1000 as is the auxillary (1.5 AGE) 18Hp Briggs&Stratton

It (the auxillary) supplies the Hp lines and the "halo" system in emergencies via an automatic incab system.

Cost difference between NSW type 2 and burnside Volvo is about $140K (Volvo about $480K)

Also im sure the Burnside guys would be more than happy to bring the truck around to your station for a show and tell when its commissioned.

Cheers
Rainer

Were the brigades criteria met or did they have to comprimise on some things?

[Firefrog]

Yeah, its good for them, but what about the rest that don't have huge bank accounts....what ever happened to everyone being equal now, isn't this a typical example of the old days pre-ESL where we have those with bucket loads of money getting top of the range gear, and those without getting the basic "what can be afforded" truck and some of us have to push you know what up hill to get even that !

I just find it outrageous that CFS allows brigades like Mt Barker, Millicent,Nuriootpa, Morphett Vale etc to get around in the bare basics, and less and then agree's to this very well specced pumper to be built for Burnside-----who essentially have nothing to speak of in their very small area, remember we can't use the MFS back up arguement, those of us that have worked on SFEC upgrades know full well about that !!

I am not having a go at Burnside at all, all the power to them for convincing the CFS to allow this, I just hope that this is not a once off, but for that kind of money, thats going to be the last and only one we see. Its not for lack of trying from some other brigades, but how the filtered are we supposed to bargain when we don't have money to bargain with.  If CFS offers you a Type 2 what are you suppose to say "no thanks, we don't want one, we are going to hold out for something better" again, if you have no money and the risk to need a pumper what are you suppose to do.

Ps: I am sorry if I offend anyone, but thats how I feel.

What would be achieved by refusing Burnside. I hate the all should be equal philosophy. If they have done the hard yards to afford something that benefits the community I am all for it. The fact that they have little in their own area is a mute argument. Look at what they actually respond to and the immediate risks in the hills above. It's may prove to be an ideal appliance to support other brigades. These days a brigades own area is becoming less important with the closest most appropriate resources going.....(but that's another story..

Progress is progress the state needs brigades to show leadership and demonstrate what can be achieved. Good on them!

I hope Burnside people will post pics here when they can!!!!

[pumprescue]

So why don't we go back to council funding then, Those that are broke get a standard 24, those councils with cash can spec trucks that are actually needed for their area, and those that don't need it but have bucket loads can do what they like as long as it meets CFS specs.

By the way I know full well where the truck are actually used, but the people in khaki REFUSE to take that into account when you go for SFEC upgrades.

Well looks like we got some serious fundraising to do then to be able to get that sort of equipment, if only all of our citizens gave $5 dollars each, we would be loaded 

[uniden]

So why don't we go back to council funding then, Those that are broke get a standard 24, those councils with cash can spec trucks that are actually needed for their area, and those that don't need it but have bucket loads can do what they like as long as it meets CFS specs.

By the way I know full well where the truck are actually used, but the people in khaki REFUSE to take that into account when you go for SFEC upgrades.

Well looks like we got some serious fundraising to do then to be able to get that sort of equipment, if only all of our citizens gave $5 dollars each, we would be loaded 

Many brigades and SES units are far better off with central funding. See Adelaide Hills SES, Salisbury CFS etc who had to fight tooth and nail to get anything out of their councils. Many others were probably in the same situation and have a solid future thanks to centralised funding, not to mention better/newer appliances and stations.
ESL might have been a four letter word initially but it stops cruel councils from holding back funds or using the attitude we are urban and dont need the CFS, especially the ones that had to make large contributions for MFS coverage.

ESL here to stay. Dont be jealous that others have better than you its just a fact of life.

[tft]

I think it's great what Burnside are doing, yes it would be great if more CFS brigades had the money to do the same.
But CFS only has a small budget, the 80's were great to some brigades. About 12 good appliance were built.

[pumprescue]

So why don't we go back to council funding then, Those that are broke get a standard 24, those councils with cash can spec trucks that are actually needed for their area, and those that don't need it but have bucket loads can do what they like as long as it meets CFS specs.

By the way I know full well where the truck are actually used, but the people in khaki REFUSE to take that into account when you go for SFEC upgrades.

Well looks like we got some serious fundraising to do then to be able to get that sort of equipment, if only all of our citizens gave $5 dollars each, we would be loaded 

Many brigades and SES units are far better off with central funding. See Adelaide Hills SES, Salisbury CFS etc who had to fight tooth and nail to get anything out of their councils. Many others were probably in the same situation and have a solid future thanks to centralised funding, not to mention better/newer appliances and stations.
ESL might have been a four letter word initially but it stops cruel councils from holding back funds or using the attitude we are urban and dont need the CFS, especially the ones that had to make large contributions for MFS coverage.

ESL here to stay. Dont be jealous that others have better than you its just a fact of life.

Errrrm, isn't what you described exactly what is happening, all that is different is those without the cash have the minimum now.

Hey, we have done well, have the best truck that CFS can supply, we just don't have the cash for the upgrade 

Good luck to the guys and gals at Burnside, looking forward to seeing a top notch truck.

[uniden]

Are brigades able to put in extra funds to get a better appliance?? IS that what has happenned with Burnside? Heard a story that Stirling wanted to put in funds when they initially got their pumper but were not allowed too, anyone elaborate on that? Might have got a better appliance...lol.

[chook]

I agree with what you are saying & I wouldn't like to go back to the pre ESL days. (In fact I will be soon )
It doesn't matter for us special builds are no longer allowed.
Hopefully the special will be the blue print for others.
cheers

[Alan J]

Yeah, its good for them, but what about the rest that don't have huge bank accounts....what ever happened to everyone being equal now, isn't this a typical example of the old days pre-ESL where we have those with bucket loads of money getting top of the range gear, and those without getting the basic "what can be afforded" truck and some of us have to push you know what up hill to get even that !

Equality is a myth. Different brigades have different requirements, & differing levels
of generosity of the people they serve.  If Burnside have been able to inviegel extra
cash out of their residents, BEWDY !!

I just find it outrageous that CFS allows brigades like Mt Barker, Millicent,Nuriootpa, Morphett Vale etc to get around in the bare basics, and less and then agree's to this very well specced pumper to be built for Burnside-----who essentially have nothing to speak of in their very small area, remember we can't use the MFS back up arguement, those of us that have worked on SFEC upgrades know full well about that !!

CFS under-equipping brigades that should have better is a whole 'nuther issue.
CFS / ESL funds vs. resident generosity...
I still say the original ESL calculation should have been kept. CFS & SES would have
twice the money to spend on appliances, VSO's, stations, etc under the original
proposal. But no... the pollies had to buy votes by reducing the amount of money WE
have available to help people with.

I am not having a go at Burnside at all, all the power to them for convincing the CFS to allow this, I just hope that this is not a once off, but for that kind of money, thats going to be the last and only one we see. Its not for lack of trying from some other brigades, but how the filtered are we supposed to bargain when we don't have money to bargain with.  If CFS offers you a Type 2 what are you suppose to say "no thanks, we don't want one, we are going to hold out for something better" again, if you have no money and the risk to need a pumper what are you suppose to do.

Take the Type 2. 
It's a really nice truck.  Not perfect, but really, really good. Streets better than a
24/34 or 34P. If you need something bigger again (eg. a SEM Heavy Pumper) then surely
your SFEC will state that?  In which case you have the option of digging in your heels,
calling in the CFSVA & the local Member.

Ps: I am sorry if I offend anyone, but thats how I feel.

Do SPAM Teams do "offended by stuff I read on tha intarweb" calls ?   

cheers

[Cameron Yelland]

CFS under-equipping brigades that should have better is a whole 'nuther issue.
CFS / ESL funds vs. resident generosity...
I still say the original ESL calculation should have been kept. CFS & SES would have
twice the money to spend on appliances, VSO's, stations, etc under the original
proposal. But no... the pollies had to buy votes by reducing the amount of money WE
have available to help people with.

I agree AJ.  If the CFS refuse to upgrade a brigade to the necessary equipment they leave themselves liable to a whole heap of trouble. 

[Hicksflat14]

Burnside Pumper sets an excellent precedence for brigades to argue for individual equipment. The CFS offered a Type 2 which was rejected. Burnside was able to obtain the additional cash (by the sounds of it $140k) and so has built a custom appliance. Now this precedence has been set everyone can build up / customise their appliance. You don't need to have $140K laying around, but $500 for a upgraded light bar and siren or perhaps $5000 for a different pump or drive train maybe all that's needed for someone's brigade. In fact, moving the equipment storage around shouldn't cost anything extra, so brigades should be able to just pick where they want to put what.

Why stop there. Progressing with this idea, everything should be optional and individual. Here's an idea, why doesn't SAFECOM just cut down on the bureaucracy and give brigades the money to select the best equipment that suits their needs? I bet nothing that smart has ever happened in the past.

So let's all thank Burnside for taking this step, cause now we all can point the finger to their example and go shopping for what we want by telling CFS to stick it up their filtered. Pimp my appliance - here I come.

[pumprescue]

Well said Hicksy

The can of worms is now well and truly open, and the worms are everywhere.

I want a remote control monitor on our pump, if CFS say we can't have it all we have to say is "you let Burnside do it" and they have NO come back, we do at least have the cash for that.

Thanks again Hicksy

[rescue5271]

If your brigade has the money then you should be able to buy what ever you want..If it was only that simple.....Lets face it who has a cool $150K sitting around to spend towards a new pumper......

[Hicksflat14]

Why does it need to involve large sums of money? As i said, the precedence has been set. The CFS pays for the base grade and brigades can option it up with the money they have.

[Cameron Yelland]

I agree with HF14 but on the other hand why should brigades have to put in the money to achieve what they should of got in the first place?  Fair enough if you would like to "pimp" out your appliance then yes you should put in the dosh.

In burnside's case they probaly are in line for heavy pumper, which they got.  The optional extras that have been fitted then should come from brigade funds.

Consultation needs to start happening with brigades when there appliance is coming up for renewal.  In some cases that may only take one meeting (standard rural brigade with perhaps a brigade bought generator), the truck should be designed to accommodate this otherwise storage space is wasted.  In other brigades the process may take several weeks or months, with both sides pushing ideas around.

Standardisation is a good thing but not necessary in some cases.  A heavy pumper designed for Burnside is very unlikely to spend any time anywhere else in the state, so why shouldnt it be specifically designed for them? 

[pumprescue]

I can see CFS point of view here, if they let brigades do what they like then the trucks end up costing an arm and a leg as they are all one off's. When you look at what we have now there isn't a huge amount of room to move with changing locker sizes etc.

[Hicksflat14]

I agree with HF14 but on the other hand why should brigades have to put in the money to achieve what they should of got in the first place? 

Well here is the great thing about this precedence. What Burnside did had nothing to do with their need and everything to do with cash. Burnside doesn't do more calls or have a higher risk than any other urban CFS brigade. These other urban brigades are told they can get by with just a 34P or in the case of HV then the type two Burnside rejected. Without any requirement for such a vehicle, Burnside pushed forward with their cash to get this great result for us all. So the CFS can't even use "need" as an argument as to why a brigade can't use the cash they have to option up on what the CFS were going to pay for as a stock appliance.

Want a skyjet? Well start saving because now you can get one for the price difference between it and a 34P.

[Zippy]

You do relise that Burnside Pumper is the primary CFS appliance to go COQ into the City HQ station when the MFS is stretched?   Im sure this will keep the MFS happy when it comes to CBD coverage.

[Alan J]

I want a remote control monitor on our pump, if CFS say we can't have it all we have to say is "you let Burnside do it" and they have NO come back, we do at least have the cash for that.

Thanks again Hicksy

Don't let's get carried away.

Burnside will get a vehicle with a fit-out & equipment list which
has been reviewed & approved by the HSE mob in Waymouth.

Pimping an existing appliance will still have to get past that
little hurdle.  (lots of luck peoples - It is easier & safer to
just say "No"...)

The precedent to get a non-standard vehicle to test new ideas or
meet local needs is already well established.  Region 7 have been
doing it for years (Blackwood CAFS, Cherry Gdns 34, Belair 14, etc)
Going even further back I'm sure there are other examples all
around the state - rescue appliances, & special gear to meet local
hazards.

I think Burnside's new bus is no big deal.

cheers

[Zippy]

Region 7 have been doing it for years (Blackwood CAFS, Cherry Gdns 34, Belair 14, etc)

Hahaha,  that cracked me up!