Author Topic: Mopping Up (Read 17502 times)

Camo · « **on:** December 07, 2006, 04:16:08 PM »

Gday,

The dirty task that is mopping up....everyone hates it but without it you might as well have not even bothered to respond in the first place! Agree?

How does everyone conduct there mop up? grassland and scrub/forest.

Grass - our brigade runs one or both sidelines down the side of the truck tied off to the bull bar and then 10-15m of hose from there. This allows the driver to see where his crew is and be able to spot out hot spots the crew may have missed with the PA.

Scrub/Forest - Our brigade uses a homemade foam branch that produces great foam coverage (for both grass and scrub)& a rakehoe. 20-30m into the scrub unless otherwised specified. Leaving no log unturned and no stump hole left uninspected.

Now my pet hate - People mopping up from the workdeck of the appliance! Anyone on here that is dumb enough to admit it - all i can say you lazy person! A great way to waste your time, water & effort.

medevac · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2006, 04:45:22 PM »

even the ones that chase fires from the back of the truck... admittedly it is faster, but sometimes a compete waste of time.

at the onka gorge the other day, witnessed a crew doing this, but they were flipping hopeless, it just kept on reigniting behind them.... waste of time and water really.

we get out there and black it up however the IC has requested...

SA Firey · « **Reply #2 on:** December 07, 2006, 05:39:42 PM »

It was an effort just to get someone to relay water to our appliance,let alone mopup.IC not answering radio and a half hour wait for water which in the meantime we lost it and away it went....oh well we tried

Cant wait for the debrief

Camo · « **Reply #3 on:** December 07, 2006, 07:36:25 PM »

Quote from: medevac on December 07, 2006, 04:45:22 PM

even the ones that chase fires from the back of the truck... admittedly it is faster, but sometimes a compete waste of time.

at the onka gorge the other day, witnessed a crew doing this, but they were flipping hopeless, it just kept on reigniting behind them.... waste of time and water really.

Depends on where you are from and the situation. Down here near the south pole its quite and effective way to fight grass fires if you know what your doing. Otherwise yes its a waste of time. So is mopping up a forest fire from the back of the truck.

At the recent Burrungle Fire near Mt Gambier i witnessed at least 3 trucks doing it from the top of the truck, they all squirted the same stump that was burning. Guess what it was still burning when we left the fireground that evening. Wasnt extinguished properly until the next day when our crew went through on mop up duties.

bittenyakka · « **Reply #4 on:** December 07, 2006, 09:23:44 PM »

To mop up every log stump and anything must be hit. Camo those trucks that hit the same stump sound like they were attacking the fire? At the onka gorge fire we were chasing the head and the only accsesable route was across the burnt ground which meant hit it with foam and move on to get to this fire but it also meant we had to watch our backs but if we had been going through like it was a mop up there would have been no chance of catching the fire.

Firefrog · « **Reply #5 on:** December 08, 2006, 11:23:14 AM »

Quote from: medevac on December 07, 2006, 04:45:22 PM

even the ones that chase fires from the back of the truck... admittedly it is faster, but sometimes a compete waste of time.

at the onka gorge the other day, witnessed a crew doing this, but they were flipping hopeless, it just kept on reigniting behind them.... waste of time and water really.

we get out there and black it up however the IC has requested...

People that say this haven't spent much time on grass or cropping land. Some running grassies can't be stopped any other way! It's just another tactic that is available there is no right or wrong tactic. It's the OIC's choice which method of attack is used.

I have seen grassies running so fast the appliances can hardly keep up. How can you a use the off the truck method in this case? Crews that are well trained and understand how to fight from the crew deck do a fantastic job. There is a right and wrong way of fighting from the deck. I am talking about knock down not mopping up.

And I agree that mopping up done from the deck is less than adequate in most cases.

CaptCom · « **Reply #6 on:** December 08, 2006, 11:41:02 AM »

too true firefrog...you can't knock down a running grass/crop fire from anywhere but on the appliance...however...mopping up is only done properly from dragging out the side lines...

You can see the lazy brigades though...probably couldn't remember the last time they dragged side lines out..

Alan (Big Al) · « **Reply #7 on:** December 08, 2006, 02:21:13 PM »

We just got these foam nozzles for our sidelindes specifically for mopping up they are great, set the Foam unit on .1% and away you go the coverage is almost as good as running at 6%. All i can say is fantastic and they make your water last forever.

aust_fire1 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 08, 2006, 02:54:09 PM »

We mop up using the hose reels and layflat hose. We mark an area and dont leave it till we as sure it is done. Aint going back again.

We did the night shift at Onk gorge recently. We turn all the lights off and let the hotspots tell us where they are.Use a hand torch for locating those pesky obsticles. Also use a torch to find the smokers.
Seems to work ok

Camo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 08, 2006, 03:02:40 PM »

Quote from: bittenyakka on December 07, 2006, 09:23:44 PM

To mop up every log stump and anything must be hit. Camo those trucks that hit the same stump sound like they were attacking the fire? At the onka gorge fire we were chasing the head and the only accsesable route was across the burnt ground which meant hit it with foam and move on to get to this fire but it also meant we had to watch our backs but if we had been going through like it was a mop up there would have been no chance of catching the fire.

This was after the fire was contained.

medevac · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2006, 10:25:05 AM »

Quote from: Firefrog on December 08, 2006, 11:23:14 AM

Quote from: medevac on December 07, 2006, 04:45:22 PM
even the ones that chase fires from the back of the truck... admittedly it is faster, but sometimes a compete waste of time.

at the onka gorge the other day, witnessed a crew doing this, but they were flipping hopeless, it just kept on reigniting behind them.... waste of time and water really.

we get out there and black it up however the IC has requested...

People that say this haven't spent much time on grass or cropping land. Some running grassies can't be stopped any other way! It's just another tactic that is available there is no right or wrong tactic. It's the OIC's choice which method of attack is used.

I have seen grassies running so fast the appliances can hardly keep up. How can you a use the off the truck method in this case? Crews that are well trained and understand how to fight from the crew deck do a fantastic job. There is a right and wrong way of fighting from the deck. I am talking about knock down not mopping up. And I agree that mopping up done from the deck is less than adequate in most cases.

people that say this didnt read my post very carefully

Firefrog · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2006, 11:19:58 AM »

yes I did and knew I would get a little nibble from you.....

I understood what you meant

5271rescue · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2006, 11:52:39 AM »

We use sidelines,but now and then you have to do a hose lay,cam some crews at that fire just stayed on the deck and used top lines why who the F knows........

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2006, 04:52:20 PM »

Admittingly, every fire is different, and relies on different tactics.. But I agree, to this day I have not seen a job where mopping up from the crew deck would achieve anything..

Pipster · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2006, 07:18:39 PM »

To mop up properly after any fire in vegetation, I think you have to get off the truck, and drag your hoses out to be able to do the job properly (how can you find all the hot spots, if you don't get off the appliance?

However, how far you drag the hoses can generate some interesting discussion.....a recent fire, my crews were told to mop up with 28 lengths of lay flat (twenty eight is not a typo).. that is 28 all joined together ...

to me, that is taking things to extreme....

Pip

bittenyakka · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2006, 07:50:55 PM »

Um 28 that is 28x30=840m now that is huge. I know our 24 carries 5 lengths of layflat that means you need another 23 where do they come from? and a 24 would have a great deal of trouble pumping down that much hose.

I have usually been told 30-50m depending on weather and surrounding vegetation.

Pipster · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2006, 08:00:35 PM »

Yep...it was huge....many hoses off many appliances - the hoses, as I understand it, we left behind by appliances, that had gone home, and left hoses specifically for the mopping up.....

The appliances were at the top of the hill, and hoses fed down....so pumping wasn't an issue in this case.... but crews had to drag the hoses up the hill, and move them, and then down again.

Another issue was that the pump operator was adjacent to the appliance, other crew members were at the other end of the hose, they couldn't see each other, and the terrain meant that the VHF radios wouldn't work.

At one point, one of the hoses burst - the pump operator didn't know, as the water was flowing, the crew at the other end didn't know it had burst, and were cursing the pump operator for not turning the water on......and it is a long walk to find the hose had burst....

I am all for mopping up properly, and 50 to 100 metres, in the current conditions, is generally acceptable. But to mop up 800 metres into the burnt ground... ? not so sure that is working smarter...appears just working harder.....

Pip

PS According to my driver, he was happy to drive the appliance into the area to black out, but was told that it "might damage the vegetation"

Timbo · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2006, 08:02:43 PM »

Quote from: pipster on December 10, 2006, 08:00:35 PM

PS According to my driver, he was happy to drive the appliance into the area to black out, but was told that it "might damage the vegetation"

Surely it was already damaged by ...um....er....a FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CaptCom · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2006, 07:16:09 AM »

an unfortunate result of Black Tuesday....we were trying to black out 60m...and it wasn't enough...hence the overkill from here on...a bit of perspective required I think...

I'm surprised your crew didn't revolt Pip...I couldn't ask any crews to run out 28 lengths...I would have been laughed out of the IMT...

Pipster · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2006, 02:09:23 PM »

My crew did bring it to the attention of the Sector Commander, who, according to my crew, laughed off their concerns...

My crew certainly had a spit when they came back..... they will be very reluctant to go and play in that area again....

And we figured that the 100% black out came out of the experiences of Black Tuesday...... the other side of the fire had 16 lengths of hose.... and the crews were expected to completely extinguish EVERYTHING in that space..... and that was a week AFTER the fire had started, and been contained...

Pip

SA Firey · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2006, 04:36:39 PM »

Its going to be a good season for the suppliers of 25mm layflat,there was at least 12 lenghts plus lost at Onka Gorge

medevac · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2006, 06:58:29 PM »

"lost" ?? broken? or actually missing... lol

on a side note, i believe a combined crew from Blackwood and Concordia ran an 800m plus line off of Blackwood 24 to black out during a night shift at Humbug Scrtub.... that would have been just as much fun pip.

Camo · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2006, 07:55:23 PM »

I understand the need to minimise reignition but there has to be a limit. Total blackout can not be achieved on a fire of that size.

Anything more then 100m would warrant a stern word with the IC!

CaptCom · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2006, 07:27:28 AM »

It only takes 1 little branch, twig or leaf to ignite over a containment line... mission impossible to completely extinguish some of these fires...sounds like common sense gone missing

SA Firey · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2006, 12:47:18 PM »

Quote from: CaptCom on December 11, 2006, 07:16:09 AM

an unfortunate result of Black Tuesday....we were trying to black out 60m...and it wasn't enough...hence the overkill from here on...a bit of perspective required I think...

I'm surprised your crew didn't revolt Pip...I couldn't ask any crews to run out 28 lengths...I would have been laughed out of the IMT...

28 lengths what appliance holds that many

Author Topic: Mopping Up (Read 17502 times)

Timbo