Author Topic: GRN FUNCTIONS. (Read 31633 times)

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 02, 2006, 09:23:05 PM »

Quote from: Darius on November 02, 2006, 08:03:22 AM

regarding VHF at the back of the appliance, yes it's a good thing, I don't know why it's not a standard fitment. I am about to start doing the paperwork to get our 24 modified to have an extension speaker/mic and volume control for the truck VHF at the rear for the pump operator to use. Enabling the truck VHF to be used like this effectively frees up a portable.

if you want more VHF portables, contact Tetracom and buy them (my group bought an extra bunch not long ago), but do it soon as Icom no longer make them except in special one-off runs. How much longer Icom will continue this I don't know.

the other mod I have recently done is on our 24 (single cab hino) is had a GRN extension speaker fitted to the rear crew seating area (no mic just a speaker). This enables the crew on the back to hear sitreps and info while responding to an incident allowing everyone, not just those in the cab, to be prepared what to expect. It's ok with dual-cabs but with the old 24's those on the back are sitting in a cloud of dust facing backwards and have no idea what is happening. I was told this mod had not been done before but now Tetracom have the wiring all worked out and it is approved by HQ, so anyone can now have this done.

regarding ideas and the chain of command, if your comms ideas are being squashed at the local level for no reason (there might be a reason that is not apparent to you of course) then take them to your regional rep on the state volunteer telecommunications committee.

Or even better Darius why not get a 2 way intercom system built rather than having extension speaker/microphone.... when my brigade used to have the old open back 34 appliance in the front we had a intercom system box which allowed communications between crew cab & back of truck as well as pump

When ever there was a fire call and everyone was on board suited up the closest to one the microphone would let the driver & radio operator know that eveyone was on board.. on arrival pending on incident size the intercom switch was changed from crew cab to pump so that way the radio operator could communicate with the pump operator

That 2 way intercom system was also my dads invention cause he installed it in a few of the trucks around the local area after Ash Wednesday 1983 and this intercom system worked well for 19 1/2 years until our truck was replaced by that refurbished one

Hey darius if you give me your postal address i'll ask my dad to copy the plans of his design to an A Drive disk and i will send it to you sometime next week ok

so your brigade can see if its a design they need

Just PM me ok

Camo · « **Reply #26 on:** November 02, 2006, 09:52:38 PM »

Quote from: Tone7 on November 02, 2006, 12:22:04 PM

so camo what happens when the crew cant talk to the sector commander on VHF because of the poor quality of the system i have found.

you try advising 30 trucks they shouldn't be using the GRN at a huge incident.

Thats not my problem....thats just what the GRN plan says. Still doesnt mean you need more then one portable.

Tone7 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 02, 2006, 10:04:33 PM »

Something about a SOP regarding BA operators and GRN radio's that each person or each team that goes in needs a radio.. im assuming you will need more than one radio for this...

Sorry know nothing about BA... or the full understanding of the SOP..

So also what happens when MFS are in a CFS area.... what fire ground channel do they use to talk to CFS... last time i checked they dont have VHF... someone really didnt plan this out too well... Yes they can come onto our talkgroup but that isnt standard SOP... they need to be in a fire ground channel

Darius · « **Reply #28 on:** November 03, 2006, 07:47:29 AM »

Quote from: Robert34 on November 02, 2006, 09:23:05 PM

Or even better Darius why not get a 2 way intercom system built rather than having extension speaker/microphone.... when my brigade used to have the old open back 34 appliance in the front we had a intercom system box which allowed communications between crew cab & back of truck as well as pump

We have an intercom between cab and rear crew seating area, I believe the truck came with it (many years ago), but you can't expect the OIC to spend all his time relaying messages/sitreps he hears on the GRN over the intercom to those on the back. On arrival the pump operator needs a VHF not an intercom as often no one is in the cab (unless the OIC can't get GRN portable reception and has to use the truck GRN, and anyway he doesn't have time to relay messages between VHF and intercom for the pump operator). Thanks for the offer anyway though.

Camo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 03, 2006, 10:15:20 AM »

Quote from: Tone7 on November 02, 2006, 10:04:33 PM

Something about a SOP regarding BA operators and GRN radio's that each person or each team that goes in needs a radio.. im assuming you will need more than one radio for this...

Sorry know nothing about BA... or the full understanding of the SOP..

So also what happens when MFS are in a CFS area.... what fire ground channel do they use to talk to CFS... last time i checked they dont have VHF... someone really didnt plan this out too well... Yes they can come onto our talkgroup but that isnt standard SOP... they need to be in a fire ground channel

A BA operator entering a building if they take a radio at all should be taking a VHF as they will only be talking to their truck or incident command.

When it comes to EMA i was always under the impression MFS go to CFS channel in CFS area and vice verca.

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #30 on:** November 03, 2006, 12:37:56 PM »

Camo, MFS don't carry VHF radios - they use GRN on simplex channels for fire-ground chat... (So if the CFS is using VHF for fire-ground chat SAMFS won't hear any of it, even though they are on the local CFS GRN talkgroup...)

Camo · « **Reply #31 on:** November 04, 2006, 08:43:05 AM »

Quote from: CFS_Firey on November 03, 2006, 12:37:56 PM

Camo, MFS don't carry VHF radios - they use GRN on simplex channels for fire-ground chat... (So if the CFS is using VHF for fire-ground chat SAMFS won't hear any of it, even though they are on the local CFS GRN talkgroup...)

Sorry must of missed that bit of the conversation. Yes i know MFS use simplex. Do CFS radios still have simplex installed? Any reason we couldnt use it? Any reason the MFS couldnt take one of our vhf portables with them? Is there any reason they need to talk to each other inside anyway? ive never had too but i guess there might be times when it is necessary.

We are on the same team here....we are allowed to share equipment.

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 04, 2006, 08:49:50 PM »

Quote from: Camo on November 04, 2006, 08:43:05 AM

Quote from: CFS_Firey on November 03, 2006, 12:37:56 PM
Camo, MFS don't carry VHF radios - they use GRN on simplex channels for fire-ground chat... (So if the CFS is using VHF for fire-ground chat SAMFS won't hear any of it, even though they are on the local CFS GRN talkgroup...)

Sorry must of missed that bit of the conversation. Yes i know MFS use simplex. Do CFS radios still have simplex installed? Any reason we couldnt use it? Any reason the MFS couldnt take one of our vhf portables with them? Is there any reason they need to talk to each other inside anyway? ive never had too but i guess there might be times when it is necessary.

We are on the same team here....we are allowed to share equipment.

Thats right Camo i cant see any reason why MFS & CFS can exchange radios at any incident requiring both services that way it makes it alot easier then again MFS does have access to CFS Talkgroups and vice versa or alternatively the Multi Agency Talkgroups can be used for fire ground comms between CFS & MFS

Ryan · « **Reply #33 on:** November 04, 2006, 08:57:56 PM »

What is simplex?

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 04, 2006, 09:03:05 PM »

Quote from: Ryan on November 04, 2006, 08:57:56 PM

What is simplex?

Simplex: 2 radios communicating with each other on the same frequency,channel or talkgroup

Duplex:2 radios communicatiing via repeater with 1 radio being on say UHF channel 7 and the other being on UHF channel 37

Firey9119 · « **Reply #35 on:** November 05, 2006, 08:46:47 AM »

some one said that some para group station have 2 grns per appliance??

yes salisbury was issued with 2 grns per appliance plus capt

BUT 2 out of 3 have 1 as the lt have them and the third has NONE as the lt haved them.

Darius · « **Reply #36 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:27:51 AM »

Quote from: Ryan on November 04, 2006, 08:57:56 PM

What is simplex?

get yourself on the GRN course. In GRN terms, simplex is 2 (or more) radios talking directly to each other with no towers or infrastructure involved (as per CB radios). In normal GRN use, the radios don't talk to each other, only to the towers (like mobile phones), this is the "trunking" aspect of it.

Ryan · « **Reply #37 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:31:21 AM »

I did GRN with BFF1. Didnt get much out of it, too complicated for the short amount of time we spent on it.

backburn · « **Reply #38 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:53:41 AM »

Our Group was told there is no GRN course now just what they do in BFF1

5271rescue · « **Reply #39 on:** November 05, 2006, 01:04:17 PM »

used be using VHF on fireground,GRN back to base If I had 3 grns per appliances I would be hiding them as you are only ment to have one......still areas where there are only truck mounted GRN no hand helds..

Alan (Big Al) · « **Reply #40 on:** November 05, 2006, 01:29:06 PM »

Quote from: backburn on November 05, 2006, 10:53:41 AM

Our Group was told there is no GRN course now just what they do in BFF1

Our group ran a GRN course last week.....

Darius · « **Reply #41 on:** November 05, 2006, 01:52:44 PM »

there is still a GRN course, it explains how the system works, why leaving radios on unnecessarily is bad, the evils of talkgroup dragging etc. You play with the "training kit" radios and try out stuff including emergency calls. The module in BFF1 is a quick intro. I thought technically you weren't allowed to use a GRN radio until you had done the specific GRN training course.

backburn · « **Reply #42 on:** November 05, 2006, 05:36:33 PM »

That what I thought but our new Group Training Officer has said differant.

Pipster · « **Reply #43 on:** November 05, 2006, 05:55:01 PM »

There was a GRN course run, that everyone was supposed to (had to?) do before they were allowed to use the radios...

BUT, there was a new course that was coming, so many Groups stopped running the old course, as there seemed that there was no point in running an old course, when there was new course about to be launched...

perhaps it has arrived?

Mike · « **Reply #44 on:** November 06, 2006, 07:07:05 AM »

No matter what radio you get... there will be problems with smoke....
Its just one of those facts people are going to have to deal with....

If the system is used correctly it doesnt work to badly... but its up to the people using it.

Chirp / Vibrate · « **Reply #45 on:** November 06, 2006, 09:07:02 AM »

Quote from: Firey9119 on November 05, 2006, 08:46:47 AM

some one said that some para group station have 2 grns per appliance??

yes salisbury was issued with 2 grns per appliance plus capt

BUT 2 out of 3 have 1 as the lt have them and the third has NONE as the lt haved them.

All EMA brigades were issued with 2 GRN radio's per Appliance so they could communicate with MFS and CFS at the same time...

Camo · « **Reply #46 on:** November 06, 2006, 01:00:07 PM »

Quote from: Chirp / Vibrate on November 06, 2006, 09:07:02 AM

All EMA brigades were issued with 2 GRN radio's per Appliance so they could communicate with MFS and CFS at the same time...

Must of been very selective then cos our brigade didnt and we are EMA.

Crankster 34 · « **Reply #47 on:** November 06, 2006, 01:30:26 PM »

[quoteyes salisbury was issued with 2 grns per appliance plus capt

BUT 2 out of 3 have 1 as the lt have them and the third has NONE as the lt haved them.][/quote]

So you have two trucks with one portable GRN radio and one truck with no portable GRN radio, what happens if your on that truck and you need the radio but the lieutenant has it in the city somewhere or down the beach listening in to the action

CFS_Firey · « **Reply #48 on:** November 06, 2006, 01:55:59 PM »

Quote

We are on the same team here....we are allowed to share equipment.

Haven't we already said we don't have enough radios? How is giving half of them to the MFS at an incident going to fix the problem?

Chirp / Vibrate · « **Reply #49 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:43:00 PM »

Quote from: Camo on November 06, 2006, 01:00:07 PM

Quote from: Chirp / Vibrate on November 06, 2006, 09:07:02 AM

All EMA brigades were issued with 2 GRN radio's per Appliance so they could communicate with MFS and CFS at the same time...

Must of been very selective then cos our brigade didnt and we are EMA.

Sorry, all EMA Brigades in Region One and Two which undertake Dual Response with MFS. Don't ask me to explain the whole EMA, MA, Dual Response thing it will take too long and probably create world war 3...