Mount lofty house

[Pipster]

Missed the bit about roof fire...in that case, if it had already broken through the roof by the time crews arrived, do NOT drown the whole thing with water - you will potentially destroy the evidence of the accelerant used to start it......   :-o

Fire investigators get really annoyed when firies destroy their evidence... :-(

[bittenyakka]

Who is better to deal with? the investigators because we washed their evedence away or the hotel manager who now doesnt have a building becuase we had to use restraint to protect evidence?

what about burnside tanker as well we could use their water tanks to store water in and tankers can go back and fourth.

[Toast]

ah.. But using restraint to protect evidence it would be an aggresive internal attack. A bit more useful that surround and drown.

If you needed more tankers, Summertown/Norton Summit/Carey Gully would be a bit closer than Burnside/Bradbury.

[Pipster]

Who is better to deal with? the investigators because we washed their evidence away or the hotel manager who now doesn't have a building because we had to use restraint to protect evidence?

I figure neither of them want the building drowned......

How many people reading this hypothetical have had the training on preservation of fire scenes (both bush fire & building) ?

I would hope EVERYONE has some basic knowledge of preservation of evidence.

If not, I might have to take to carrying my gun the scenes...as I said, fire investigators get very grumpy when firies destroy the evidence - especially evidence that can identify who lit it!!!  (As I have witnessed first hand...)     :wink:

Pip

[Toast]

Please?! Then those without commonsense can be gradually culled.

[Pipster]

You'd better watch out this year...I have moved work place, and now cover parts of your area....including for bushfire investigation......  :wink:    :-)

Pip

[probie_boy]

seeming as we have been hurled off topic, im gonna give my plan.

send stirling pumper, stirling tanker, aldgate 12, upper sturt 24, piccadilly 24 and summertown tanker (lofty tankers further away). If you wanna get serious call burnside pumper, summertown 34. personally, i call the pro's, get 441 up there. Use the scania while you can.

that way you have at least 25000 litres of water to play with. Im assuming this place is now close to 'parking lot' phase?

[Toast]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but Stirling 12 and Bridgie URP are closer than Upper Sturt. What will 441 do? They're only an extra 4 BA. By the time they got there it'd be knocked down.

[PF_]

thats okay more operators is good and you can always make a stop call.  Lets say this fire is in 10 years you can call in MT Barker MFS :roll:

[Toast]

More like Stirling MFS amirite?

[PF_]

maybe both... :-o

[CFS_Firey]

Thought I'd just better point out - We can only respond 1 appliance per brigade (as stated by bittenyakka on page 1) and we already know how the fire started (problem the with heater), so while the suggestions are all very good, try to keep an eye on what's already been said.. ;)

:)

[Toast]

So how many times have we rocked up to a going domestic/commercial with "Heater causing backdraft of half of floor" being known upon arrival? Not to mention it being a saturday afternoon and every station only being able to get 1 appliance and 3BA out... :roll:

[CFS_Firey]

^^How is that relevant?  Try to keep posts on topic good chap.

[Toast]

Because you generally don't know the cause of the fire untill its been extinguished and the fire techs have been in? Plus in this scenario, as Bittenyakka said, the occupants arrive, open the door and bang. (Mind you, how they didnt notice the smoke or smell, or the fire alarm going off is beyond me :wink:)

[CFS_Firey]

This is a HYPOTHETICAL incident Toast.  That means its not real. Its purpose is to see how you will fight the fire with the resources and knowledge bittenyakka has given you, its purpose is not to argue that those resources and knowledge are incorrect.  Please don't take this off topic any more! :)

[PF_]

ban him ban him! :-P

Maybe there is something on that Saturday afternoon so people have decided to ignore their pager, Bathurst or grand final maybe, and the occupants were having sex and werent able to notice the smoke or alarms as they were otherwise busy....


Is that the answer you want. :lol:

[Toast]

The occupants were outside the room  :wink:

[PF_]

it was one hell of a session :-P :mrgreen:

[bittenyakka]

well My aim was to see how people would cope with a very large fire on arrival with slightly limeted resources. and to make it more intresting than small fire in one room on top floor. Which we could put out with a Dry chem and go home.

[RescueHazmat]

Could we get a summary of what is known, as it is over about 20 posts, then it might be easier to formulate a plan... :)

[Toast]

Some would say edit the first post...

[bittenyakka]

________________________________________

This a  re post of all the information posts


it is Saturday afternoon about 1500 and a fire had started at on the third floor of mount lofty house. Who do you respond and how do you go about putting the fire out? it is completely up to you.
The wind is blowing smoke away from the road towards Crafers and each CFS crew you call can only have 3 BA operators.
The fire is on the top (third floor) started in a room occupants opened  the door to their doom after going to the botanic gardens and a large backdraft? Caused the fire to spread over half the floor. For some reason know one smelt the smoke and the alarms failed to operate. The emergency stairs door has failed and burning martial has fallen down to the second floor.
Buy the time any appliance gats there the roof is on fire. And most of the top floor is burning
Each brigade can only turn out one appliance

The main reason for this is to se what people would do at a very large fire on arrival.

People tend to have responded
Stirling pumper
Aldgate 12
Piccadilly 24
Bridgewater pumper
441
Tankers, Summertown/Norton Summit/Carey Gully

[RescueHazmat]

The main reason for this is to see what people would do at a very large fire on arrival.

On arrival I would upgrade to a second alarm structure fire, responding the resources already determined on the response plan for that risk. (I am not familiar with the building or its exposures, but a third alarm may be in order due to water availability? exposures and asset protection).

I would not commit crews to interior attack, using the principles of fire attack (RECEO) we found out: -

All persons are out of the building, exposures are unknown to myself, but we will go with the basics, areas not involved in fire, LPG cylinders against the wall, cars in the car port, adjoining buildings etc, we will contain the fire either offensively, or defensively knowing that:

The emergency stairs door has failed and burning material has fallen down to the second floor. Buy the time any appliance gets there the roof is on fire. And most of the top floor is burning..

As an OIC I decide the risk of collapse is to great to send in crews, all persons are out of the building and the threat to life is nil. Our tactics will now be focused on defensive attack and asset/exposure protection. (It may not be as glorious as running in the front door with a hoseline, but one floor has already fallen through, I'm not letting the next take a crew member with it).

Once we have extinguished the fire to a degree which allows fire cause entry, we will work with them on overhaul/ salvage.

(Ventilation techniques would have been very difficult due to the roof being compromised) - but if they were possible at the time, im sure the experienced crew would have undertaken such techniques.

[Toast]

All persons are out of the building,

Apart from the people who opened their door and were backdrafted on  :wink:

(It may not be as glorious as running in the front door with a hoseline, but one floor has already fallen through, I'm not letting the next take a crew member with it).

No floor has fallen through, there is burning material that has come down the stairs, but no nasty structural damage

(Ventilation techniques would have been very difficult due to the roof being compromised) - but if they were possible at the time, im sure the experienced crew would have undertaken such techniques.

Why would they have been difficult? The roof burning through would have made them easier as heat and smoke rises, not to mention that there would be quite a few windows broken by the backdraft making ventilation easier and almost complete? Even if the windows weren't broken by the force of the backdraft, then a FF with a ladder and a Pike Pole/Axe/Halligan can do the job.