CABA/RCR

[strikeathird]

I don't think thats a fair comment blinky...


I know of some 17 / 18 year olds that can handle them selves better in certain jobs than 30 year olds...


All comes down to the individual.. and thats what needs to be taken into account...

[rescue5271]

But do they really know how to handle it?? some VA'S still make me sick,ppl should not be pushed into things just because they have done a course,it takes time and we do have to protect some members from what we really see.

[medevac]

thats why we choose wether or not to get on the truck.
if the CFS feels they are old enough to join the service then they shud be exposed to the whole service, none of this having to be over 18 for BA, HAZMAT and RCR crap. they need to either raise joining age to 18 or just forget all these age limits...

[Alan (Big Al)]

I attended my first fatal accident when i was sixteen, i was asked if i would like to assist with the recovery i said yes because i thought if you don't try you won't know if you can handle it. I handled it ok, but i thinks it's up to the person if they don't want to be involved or they do then it's up to that person wether they are 16, 18, or 50.

[Stefan KIRKMOE]

Hey All,
I'm just curious how long u have had to be 18 for to do RCR? I did it when I was 16, I've been in the organisation for about 6 years now. First job i ever attended was a fatal. Didn't do much at it as he was DOA. Had a few "big" jobs involving semi's rollingover etc with the drivers ending up all over the place and this was all at a young age. As someone else had already said I think it comes down to the individual. The only thing I hate is when they stink after a few days in the heat....

[rescue5271]

Not to sure when the age to do RCR was changed or was it?? Sure it is up to the firefighter at the time if he or she can deal with the job.But keep in mind that some and I am talking about high speed MVA'S are nasty and I do maen nasty. If you are exposed to it and need help dont be afriade  to ask to talk to someone about what you did and see,after all we are human

[Alan (Big Al)]

Don't know if anyone has noticed on the pager site that anytime SAAS attend a call involving a fatality a peer support officer is called for the attending crews, maybe this should be the same for CFS make it compulsory rather than if you think you or someone needs it.

[probie_boy]

yeah it would make sense.

[medevac]

Don't know if anyone has noticed on the pager site that anytime SAAS attend a call involving a fatality a peer support officer is called for the attending crews, maybe this should be the same for CFS make it compulsory rather than if you think you or someone needs it.

im pretty sure it depends on the circumstances surrounding the death...

[oz fire]

Don't know if anyone has noticed on the pager site that anytime SAAS attend a call involving a fatality a peer support officer is called for the attending crews, maybe this should be the same for CFS make it compulsory rather than if you think you or someone needs it.

Interesting idea - certainly I think it should be offered EVERY time, but not sure if you can force it on to a crew or individual?

[rescue5271]

Sounds good we are lucky in my brigade as we have a member of the spam team who is always around if we have a problem or just need a chat.

[strikeathird]

But do they really know how to handle it?? some VA'S still make me sick,ppl should not be pushed into things just because they have done a course,it takes time and we do have to protect some members from what we really see.

As you stated, some VA's still make you sick, and I have seen MVA's where older , more experienced members haven't been able to handle them self as well, or the situation as well as a younger member....

I think its a common problem, people join the service, at what ever age, weather it be young or old, then become of the opinion that younger members shouldnt see certain types of jobs...  Forgetting in their day they were the best part of 15 when rode the rig to their first RCR call...

(Not saying that is the situation in your case bill, just making an example)

So put it short and sharp, I think it comes down to the individual, and the oic / crew / individual them selves should be able to make the decision, and not base it " souly " on age... As like I said, ive seen 17 year olds handle themselves better than 37 year olds at various incidents !!

[Mike]

In the end its the individual, however, Ive been there and done it when I was 16 as a few others have..... I believe in the 18/RCR idea, and make a point of sitting down with the younger members and discussing it with them. Its not to say they cant go... but we prefer that
1. They make room on the first responding appliance for RCR and more experienced members.
2. They are acompanied/invited by an RCR/experienced member when having a closer look.
They have all understood where we are coming from....

[Mike]

It makes things so much clearer when you actually explain the reasons behind things. As I said, been there done that.... can see and understand why the descision was made to stop it.

Am often asked why it seems as though they are being held back. Its amazing what a little communication achieves.

[strikeathird]

Okay, I see your point mike, and you have some very valid examples..


But you said you were 16 at your first MVA Rescue...  Yet you would tell a 16 year old now to stay and run the radio because or hope to catch the second truck as other members are arriving...  All because he isnt 18.. 

(Yet.. the day before his 18th birthday are things really going to be that much different to the day he turns 18...  other than legally being an adult..!!)  I dont think the MVA would be any less of a job..

I just want to know why that may be.?  Have things change in the years, have accidents gotten more graphic / more involved??

question..
If you were okay with it at the age of 16 (obviously, having the support of other members, now days there is spam, etc.. and you turned out okay... well.. i assume .. ) why limit the turnout to those to certain ages? 

**BTW.. Just asking a question.. So to support both sides of the coin.. Not saying i don't agree with the 18 age limit.. (not saying i do either:P) Just think this is a fairly good debate / has many valid points...**

ta.

[Mike]

nothing like a healthy discussion striker.....

Your right though, there is nothing to say that someone will handle a situation like that any better at 18 than they will at 16. But the things they do have behind them is a better appreciation and better life skills.

I was ok with my first call, but that doesnt mean everyone else will be. It also gives the general crew more time to learn about them (as nowdays cadets train on a different night in most cases (not all)).

Up until recently we were aware that one young member 'didnt like blood', fair enough, lets help her deal with it. What we didnt realise is that they ment they would 'have something like an athsma (sp) attack and nearly pass out'. What a difference a bit of time makes, and shows a situation that should be handled quite a bit differently.

To digress slightly. i also did BA before turning 18. At a chicken shed fire shortly after my course there was a call for lots of BA operators. When I put my hand up for the call i was told "your not 18 you cant do it'. the first I ever heard of a problem....! I had length discussions that day along the lines of 'why train me if I cant use it'. The solution, 'you can use it, but external attack only, stay a safe distance back'.
Introduction to that style of job in a safe manner that is acceptable to everyone. - once again discussion goes a long way.

maybe an analagy (sp) The government says i have enough brains to drive a car at 16. to make split second descisions that could greatly effect peoples lives..... yet i cant vote. A simple process that everyone hears about and has lots of time to discuss and consider various concequences, no rash descisions... I understand it just as well as everyone else but.....

Unfortunately life is not always fair, but by discussing it and coming up with a good plan, people will go a long long way.

its early... thats all the thoughts running through my head on that one for the moment......

[strikeathird]

Cheers, you have summed it up quite nicely..


And to put my thoughts forward.. I am of similar opinion.. some are ready for it, some arent.  I just dont think its fair to generalise the whole "youth" bracket ...   

Like, At 16 you may be responded to a grass fire, which turns out to strike team proportion... Yet if u were called 20 mins later as the strike team, you couldnt attend... Go figure?

I agree, communication is definately the best way... Yet think there are plenty of younger members who equally have as much maturity and mental ability at such incidents as there 20 year senior counterparts......   (sometimes... more maturity  )

[strikeathird]

edit.  Not being effected by the age limit problem, just think that there is all to often a hype about age...  Luckily I didn't have too many problems when I was a younger member, I had good crews and good officers, and good support if ever i needed it...  And as I said, my first job happend to be a Rescue with multiple entrapments...  As you said mike, I also turned out fine.. (I think... )   so yea... I think it definately comes down to the individual..!!


 

Thx for the healthy debate / discussion.. !!

[probie_boy]

yeah what a battle!

[Mike]

I wouldnt go as far to as to say it was a battle probie.

Its a contentious discussion, but only a couple of views have been put forward, nothing wrong, just seen from different view points.

You mentioned you were new to the game..... what is your take on it?

[oz fire]

To play the devils advocate - or just to put another view, how many of use have psychological training .... to assess through interaction with someone their mind set, life skills and life experience.

As already advocated, as someone who has no formal training in assessing someones psychological outlook or coping abilities, I think it appropriate that the officer make the decision and maybe that the brigade management/officers have a predetermined position, that is communicated to everyone - that way when a crew arrives, regardless of who they might be, they all know the brigades position.

This also allows individual brigades to assess their membership, in some instances young people have far greater life skills and a greater acceptance of reality than senior members and the same in reverse.

I have been seen both sides, as a young firie at a fatality (was told to stay away, however curiosity got the better so had a look - opened my eyes!!!)and also as an officer deciding how to utilise a crew at a fatality (quick discussion with the crew sorted out those who would work close to the deceased and those who would rather stay away). The best thing, there were options, the brigade had previously discussed it and the captain was proactive in regularly discussing SPAM teams and the responsability on each of us as individuals to say no - we can't or don't need or want to be exposed to that unnecessarily.

[probie_boy]

I wouldnt go as far to as to say it was a battle probie.

Its a contentious discussion, but only a couple of views have been put forward, nothing wrong, just seen from different view points.

You mentioned you were new to the game..... what is your take on it?

the word battle was used VERY lightly mike. it meant nothing.

as for my take on things, i say it is up to 2 people...your OIC and you. as volunteers, we don't have to climb onto that truck unless we want to. And if you feel confident, climb aboard. Then your OIC might not want you on their because they think your not confident/proficient enough.

my view