Urban Fire Brigades Are Better...

[MATTE]

Urban Fire Brigades are better, they provide a more diverse service to the community, they respond to more calls, more dedication but one thing they need is more money. I think that all urban stations should be kitted out to a standard and rural to a standard. as far as rural is concerned a shed and bathroom and office is all that is needed. but for brigades with in excess of 200 runs a year their should defintedly be perks such as rec/training room, gym, automated doors, automated fire station lights for those fronting main roads (two yellow, one red)Kitchen facilities, BA Compressor/Cleaning area and PPE Washing/Maintenance Facilities possibly integrated with the BA room.
This is what an urban CFA station is like, even the full volly urban stations. Lorne CFA responds less than 100 times a year yet have a brand new 2 storey station with 6 bays (2 for rural ambulance) with all the perks. i would rate it as the best volly station in Australia and there barely ever there. What The?

[nomex_nugget]

I won't comment on the 'who's better' issue but I think our stations in general are a little second rate - right throughout the service.

When you look at the stations the vollie brigades are getting in the CFA it is easy to be jealous. I spent some time at a vollie station recently, this is a brigade doing around 350 runs a year with three appliances and a specialist vehicle, they have just received a brand new two story station with one or their meeting rooms nearly bigger than our engine bay!! It has a fully functional office, two kitchens and weights room and a rec room for the guys to hang out in. It is a very impressive vollie station and makes ours look laughable.

I don't think it would surprise too many people to hear that the CFA are in general a bit better off than the CFS and that their Government is somewhat more generous than ours when it comes to budgets, just look at the paid staff numbers 100 for CFS around 800 for the CFA.

[Mike]

Personally, I am very close to finding the comment about urban brigades offensive! They are no more dedicated that any other person who volunteers and resonds to the CFS, and they do exactly the same stuff..... just a little more often than rural brigades. I know Ive been really happy on occasions to see the only truck from the brigade that gets 5 calls a year.

As for stations.... well, they sound nice, but I couldnt justify asking for a 6 bay shed for 3 appliances. What I love about this service is not the fact that we get some very dodgy stuff occasionally.... but that we can take that stuff and use it to our advantage. To stand up and say "this is what I have to work with.... lets get the job done".

[rescue5271]

All fire stations should have the basic needs for members,toilets,showers,kitchen and meeting area.. It does not matter if you are urban or rural before we go looking into what the CFA have in the way of stations,did you know that brigades must make a donation towards there station??? did you know that brigades have to pay for the fixtures in the station? So its not all clear cut as some may see or read in the paper...There are urban brigades in CFA that do less than 100 jobs a year but still in there old 1947 station that still have outside toilets....

It is true that you can get a fire station built in Victoria far cheaper than here in sth aust why? Not sure but I know that members of a brigade built there station for $17,000 and that a contractor had quoted almost $70,000 to esau when it was around.....

[mengcfs]

OK,
So what type of station does an urban/rural Brigade get?

Adam.

[kat]

I'm sure you were after a bite so I'll give you one

Is a vollie urban Brigade who does a lot of calls but has access to many, many resources around them and possibly has another three of four stations (possibly full time) within 20 minutes of them needier or more deserving than a Brigade that handles half the calls (or less) but has access to no resources within 20 minutes and is all the town and it's assets has??

Different Brigades do have different needs but all stations should be a decent standard.

I have aoften pondered why I could purchase land and build three brick four bedroom houses (at least in my area) for the price they quote for a new station here!!!!

[Del]

Another case of MFS wanna be's..... Why shouldn't we then just give all those stations that do, say 120+ calls a year to the MFS. Why should vollies be so put out attending that many calls. This is the real world we live in....

[oz fire]

Intersting post.

All CFS fire fighters have the right to receive the same training (against the equipment they carry)- making them all equally trained (no difference between urban fringe and the other 400 brigades)

All brigades have a community who rely on them to provide a fire service coverage (no difference between urban fringe and the other 400 brigades)

All fire fighters give up their time,put in their best effort and place their lives on the line every time their pager goes - regardless of if thats 200 times or 5 times a year.

Maybe we should look at the risks some of these non urban (non hills/ Adelaide fringe brigades have) - some of the largest manufacturing plants in SA, enormous response areas, small crew numbers (due to population)very few local resources, back up along way away.

All fire fighters have the rite to be professional, regardless of location, equipment or call numbers - their communities, the service and the state expects it!

We should all stand proud (maybe a little envious of what others have and what others do) we are all in this together and we all combined make up the SACFS - without us, either urban or rural, our communities, the public and the state will suffer and we will be the worse for it  United we stand, divided we fall, so we all need to support each other.

As for fire stations - now that is another sad story all together! Maybe when we have a population like Victoria, a Government revenue like Victoria, then and only then may we see Government acknowledge that CFS needs better stations. Personally, for the money CFS gets to build stations and the government dictatorship that we suffer I think we do alright!

Stand proud one and all - we are the CFS, we all do the job, just the frequency varies

[Mike]

Intersting post.

All CFS fire fighters have the right to receive the same training (against the equipment they carry)- making them all equally trained (no difference between urban fringe and the other 400 brigades)

All brigades have a community who rely on them to provide a fire service coverage (no difference between urban fringe and the other 400 brigades)

All fire fighters give up their time,put in their best effort and place their lives on the line every time their pager goes - regardless of if thats 200 times or 5 times a year.

Maybe we should look at the risks some of these non urban (non hills/ Adelaide fringe brigades have) - some of the largest manufacturing plants in SA, enormous response areas, small crew numbers (due to population)very few local resources, back up along way away.

All fire fighters have the rite to be professional, regardless of location, equipment or call numbers - their communities, the service and the state expects it!

We should all stand proud (maybe a little envious of what others have and what others do) we are all in this together and we all combined make up the SACFS - without us, either urban or rural, our communities, the public and the state will suffer and we will be the worse for it  United we stand, divided we fall, so we all need to support each other.

As for fire stations - now that is another sad story all together! Maybe when we have a population like Victoria, a Government revenue like Victoria, then and only then may we see Government acknowledge that CFS needs better stations. Personally, for the money CFS gets to build stations and the government dictatorship that we suffer I think we do alright!

Stand proud one and all - we are the CFS, we all do the job, just the frequency varies

well said.... united and undaunted even

[firefighter_sa]

Hi there

Well written - you have my vote.

Wayne

[Del]

As volunteers we deserve training and equipment to an equal standard of those whom get paid. However i disagree with the thought of having hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars spent on stations that get used relatively little. It's a whole new world having to eat, sleep and keep ones self occupied while on duty for 10, 15 or 24 hours at a station, then you need an appropriate facility to pass the down time and be comfortable.

[fire03rescue]

Another case of MFS wanna be's..... Why shouldn't we then just give all those stations that do, say 120+ calls a year to the MFS. Why should vollies be so put out attending that many calls. This is the real world we live in....

I am in the CFS because I enjoy the work and the people, yes my brigades does 250 plus calls. I don't think that Urban Fire Brigades Are Better...
I don't fell put out because we attened lots of calls and I am not a MFS wanna be's.....
But I think we could also learn from SOME of the things that the MFS do.
Yes I would love a flash station, but that is life

[medevac]

HMMM 'SS' i think you really need to get more experience before you throw around comments like that... I  get the impression from your post that you are young, have been in the cfs only a few years (or months), and are in an urban brigade (presumably) that does a few calls a year, so you feel more important than rural and slower call-rate brigades??

maybe you should think before you post. im suprised noone has ripped you a knew one for a post like that

personally ive had a fair bit of experience with CFS and been around the place to see a fair bit... and straight away i can think of one rural station... that not necessarily tops every briagde, but is a damned site better than most urban brigades, who quite often make there own rules, or delibretly ignore the SOPs frequently, or just do whatever they feel like... and no the brigade im thinking of isnt even in the same region as mine.

[rescue5271]

I does not matter if you are urban or rural we are all here to do the same job and to provide a service to the community. I can tell you that our rural brigades in my group have all done more calls in the past month than they would do in a whole year. They are all farmers who are in the middle of harvest and runing large farms,like all CFS members they drop what they are doing and turn out.these guys have a basic shed and they make do with what they have and at the end of the day we all do the same job. Sure we at Naracoorte have a flash station but that is maily due to the risk in the town and the other roles we play but at the end of the day we are all the same... sad but true CFA are doing away withthe urban/rural brigades and just calling them XYZ VOLUNTEER FIRE BRIGADE...... Hey if your brigade does 150,350 jobs a year and you can mann your appliances good on you but at the end of the day when you have had enough try and look for a soluntion as to how to retain those members.. WHERE THERE IS A WILL THERE IS AWAY....

[Firefrog]

I once did a Leadership Course with Bob Kearney (spelling?) and one of the profound things we discussed was tribalism.

So often we can become focussed on our tribe! Our tribe could be our brigade our group or even our service.
Looking over the fence at another tribe can cause some people to feel inferior and want more, while other people look over and feel superior and want to blow their own horn, while others just can't stand seeing success and want to cut down the so called tall poppies.

Being tribal is natural but destructive, we should be supporting each other. The CFS has enough challenges without brigades fighting over who is better or who has the best widgets.

No one is better no one is worse we are all generous people who give their time for one casue to protect others.

I am proud of the CFS and hope I always will be. We just have to avoid being tribal.

[TillerMan]

What the? no-ones better than anyone else at all, every area is different and every brigade does their best to protect that area.
How can you compare anyone in the C.F.S, if it were a footy team yes because every footy team plays the same game but every C.F.S brigade whilst having the same goals plays a different game due to their area, members, call rate and funding being different.

[medevac]

yeah... im guessing he/she is young, in-experienced and a bit too proud of his/her brigade....

[CFS_Firey]

I have to say I agree with SS. While I don't think Urban brigades are "better" or any brigade is "better" for that matter but I do think the busy brigades deserve to be treated differently.

It's very easy to say that we all do the same job, but when a brigade is doing a call-out a day, they deserve to have a station and trucks that aren't crappy. Volunteers might be equally dedicated, but if one volunteer puts in 2 hours a week, and the other puts in 8 hours a week, shouldn't the CFS make life a little easier for the second vollie?

I come from a reasonably busy brigade, where our members need to put a fair chunk of their time into the brigade. I'm happy to do this, because I don't have a young family to look after, or a job that takes up a lot of time. However, I can see fellow members who are finding it harder and harder to make such a big commitment, while at the same time we need them all the more.

If the CFS wants to retain members, they need to make an effort in return. How about headquarters trys to make life easier for the volunteers?

Its not a case of "What the CFS is about" or the volunteers ethic anymore. These are real people in real communities, and unless the CFS takes a real look at the commitment some volunteers are expected to make, the Service is going to suffer, and even more volunteers will leave.

The CFS might need to do this for all brigades, but from what I can see, its the busy ones that will be affected first. I'm not saying busy brigades are better, I'm saying they should be a higher priority.

Sorry about that rant.. it's not aimed at anyone personally, and I hope no one takes offense, but I felt someone needed to argue the other side of the debate. The reality is that MFS won't take over from a failing volunteer brigade until they absolutely have to. That means until Innocent lives are lost because the local CFS consistently couldn't get a crew...

[Smallflame]

A number of callouts isn't really what determines whether a brigade is "better" than another. Its really whats going on inside that brigade, and their ability to get a crew together to get to a call. We do the same thing as a rural brigade, just a lot more often. Everyone has an entitlement to a safe place of work and training, and the amount of calls shoudn't really affect the basics.

Its all well and good to start discussing what perks SHOULD be. Being something of an Urban brigade, there are certainly things we could use, but the reality of the matter for all the starry eyed individuals out there is that the Emergency Services Levy (1991) is divided up between the CFS, MFS, SES, Surf Lifesaving and a couple of other organizations. There is very little hope that CFS stations will be outfitted with gyms and the like in the near future, unless of course your brigade recieves a large amount of sponsorship.

A gym or extras that are superfluous at a CFS station is just un-neccecary spending of monies in place to keep the service up and running. If you would like to ask people what they'd think of an increase in their Emergency Service Levy, go for it. On the gym thing again.. THe only reason the Mets have the facilities is that they have LONG SHIFTS. We're in before and after a callout, and for training.

[PF_]

agree smallflame.  Money should be spent on keeping us firefighter's safe and making sure the brigade is running efficiently rather than adding un-necessary features to your station.  It's more important that the firefighters have PBI Gold than a lounge and tv. 

I only live 1.5km from our rural/urban station so it would be nice to have a gym for some training out of scheduled training.   

[oz fire]

If we take out the "who's better" and look purely at the wants list that SS dreamed up:

I'm aware of a Group who ran fire fighter fitness sessions several times a week - led by a qualified personal trainer - the attendance was lass than 10% of members - so imaging how much use a gym would get in a station?

Automated doors - good idea - for all stations, the doors or no lighter in rural areas than in urban.

Kitchen facilities/rec areas - at least an area where you can sit down and make a cuppa - regardless of how many calls you do - people still attend the station for training, admin and PR, again the frequency may differ, but the basic needs don't.

As for a BA compressor - the ones CFS have now aren't used often enough to justify the expense (and they are very expensive) to justify more - travelling to them may be a pain in the but, but it's allot more cost effective.

As for brick stations, seeing where CFS is now compared to 10/15 years ago I think we are doing very well

As already stated - we all perform the same job and have the same needs - maybe those in busier areas could get more creative to source their wants list - I know my brigade has and we are now very nicely equipped to look after members welfare thanks to being resourceful!

[kat]

Welcome Smallflame and thanks for your contribution

[PF_]

Oz, by auto doors do you mean they open up as soon as a page comes across or press a button when you get there?  Opening when the pagers go off isnt a good idea as theres too much valuable stock in there to have open doors. 

Yep, all stations should ahve a kitchen and an office.  And brick stations are definetely not required.  One thing that can be improved in stations is space.  The stations I have seen have no space once the truck goes in.  I know the truck is out most of the time when the staion is being used, but on the occaison it isnt, a bit more space would be nice.

[Mike]

lets not bend the thread off track to much.....
entry and backup systems could evolve into a much larger discussion...

[kat]

lets not bend the thread off track to much.....
entry and backup systems could evolve into a much larger discussion...

Yes, and hopefully a more interesting and productive discussion than why urban brigades are better or not