SAAS Responding Other Services..

[Faux Pas]

Hmm not sure how many SAAS people are on here but can someone from SAAS please tell me how many times you have been called to a fender bender cause "oh my neck hurts" or "I've got whiplash" so that they can try to claim compo.

On top of that they are called to all manner of things that are classed as an MVA or TRAFFIC have no requirement what so ever for a CFS brigade to attend eg. car vs pedestrian or car vs bike etc.

Oh and if I have managed to name every situation that SAAS would have stop called us on then what is the point of this conversation continuing, it is a waste of our time to be turned out...tell me what situation that we aren't required at that we don't get called for...other than for spills that usually come in an hour after SAAS are there so that we don't tie up our service for time that we will just be waiting around for.

[6739264]

I'm a fan of the good old "RESPOND MVA Spillage, Map 000,0,0, From police, Minor accident, No injuries, NO spillage."

THAT needs a dual brigade response.

[Faux Pas]

No no we should respond all brigades in that Group in case the car and the ambulance blow up...hey we can always stop call them if it doesn't happen 

[6739264]

I'm a fan of BOMS and Procedure, but also of common sense.

[Crownie24]

Now your just exaggerating, well I meant you covered a great majority.
There is no need to go getting narkey about this, its a discussion a democratic discussion not a totalitarianism where you get angry and beat down everyone for having an opinion.
And your missing my point it removes the delay...because the call comes in at time A SAAS arrives time B calls CFS/SES at time B and they arrive at time C, it arranges it so that CFS/SES get called at time A and arrive circa time B, if you don't need them you quickly get on your GRN and you say CFS/SES not needed and all is well.

[6739264]

I'm not exaggerating... I have 5 times been to jobs where the page has *exactly* specified "No Injury, No spillage" and we have had, as per groups SOP's, two brigades turn out.

[Crownie24]

not you FAUX PAS
Such occurrence would not surprise me some GO's/DGO's are CRANKS well most are...

[Faux Pas]

It appears as though i am not the only one who is exaggerating, that is the point i was trying to make!

And your missing my point it removes the delay...because the call comes in at time A SAAS arrives time B calls CFS/SES at time B and they arrive at time C, it arranges it so that CFS/SES get called at time A and arrive circa time B, if you don't need them you quickly get on your GRN and you say CFS/SES not needed and all is well.

So please can someone tell me why if we know that for these incident we are going to get stop called we need to be responded in the first place, that is the big question here. If it is a job where cfs are required then they are 99% of the time called at the time the emergency call is taken when the other agencies are responded, I know this because I have some in-site in to the day to day running of the comcens. People here in other forums go on and on about not getting things they think their brigade deserves well most of the reason why is because it comes down to money, money that is wasted going to stupid calls that CFS are not required at that they get stop called to.

Oh and i am not saying you can't have an opinion but having some fact to back it up is really helpful in other people people being able to understand your point of view.

[6739264]

Nothing to do with cranks in the group. Idiots in Commcen...

Faux Pas, I'm all for not turning out when not necessary, but there have been many times where we have been turned out a significant time after the Ambos have, and have copped flak at the site for taking as long as we have. Not to mention the few times commcen have confirmed no entrapments, only to cop flak from the ambos for not bringing our rescue to the entrapment....

I know that Commcen can only go on what they have been told, but on the whole there is certainly room for improvement across the board. Especially in rural areas where that 10-15 minute gap can be pretty crucial.

Now I don't agree with a bunch of armchair comms operators commenting on the response and notification times of different agencies when they have no real life experience outside of being a volly at their local station...

[Crownie24]

If the call center can get a rational answer out of the caller then I don't see why they can't not call the SES/CFS but I don't think they can most times.
Maybe some people will still be picky and complain about not being called after such occurrences but they will be a minority.
It isn't like there is a plague of VA's in the country areas, they occur randomly (DUH) but they are so unpredictable in nature that it is safest to have SES/CFS respond just in case you do in fact need them...if you don't well thats simple.
But the CFS/SES would appreciate some recognition more than is currently occurring because at the moment everyones trying to avoid them.
Bordem / Frustration and money is a small price to pay for the of chance that it goes pair shaped...
SAAS arrive and low an behold the car is on fire or the person is trapped Murphy oh my we need CFS/SES, but all is well because they are right behind you.

[Faux Pas]

Do you mean comms operators in brigades of comcen officers?

If you mean comcen operators...i don't agree that a bunch of vollies should comment on the response and notification times of different agencies when they have NO real life experience in a comcen! It works two ways.

Generally speaking most of the calls that have entrapments that CFS aren't called to have more to do with people in the incident not giving people information and sometimes when it comes to country jobs it can take longer than 5 minutes to process a call when one person is taking a call and another person dispatches the call to the correct location and by the correct means.

Maybe there is a reason that some country SAAS avoid some CFS people...I would rather be in an accident in the country and be in a bad way to only have SAAS rock up than to have some CFS brigade try to take a punt at how to give me adequate first aid while they are waiting for SAAS and me never being able to walk again or me ending up worse than if i was left alone, and i am not referring to all CFS brigades but i am sure we all know someone that we wouldn't want to turn up and an MVA they were involved in for safety's sake!

And yes i know at times it can work the other way with SAAS trying to pull a person out with out rescue being on scene yet but that is a different topic all together.

[Pipster]

I've posed this question before on this forum, and others....but I'll ask the question again.

Does anyone know how many MVA's there are each year in SA?  Do people really want to be called to every single on of them?

It would appear that many support the concept of fire service being called to all of them, until a stop is given....

I'll let people have a think about numbers, and I'll get the precise figures for you tomorrow.....

Pip

[Crownie24]

Do you mean comms operators in brigades of comcen officers?

If you mean comcen operators...i don't agree that a bunch of vollies should comment on the response and notification times of different agencies when they have NO real life experience in a comcen! It works two ways.

Generally speaking most of the calls that have entrapments that CFS aren't called to have more to do with people in the incident not giving people information and sometimes when it comes to country jobs it can take longer than 5 minutes to process a call when one person is taking a call and another person dispatches the call to the correct location and by the correct means.

Maybe there is a reason that some country SAAS avoid some CFS people...I would rather be in an accident in the country and be in a bad way to only have SAAS rock up than to have some CFS brigade try to take a punt at how to give me adequate first aid while they are waiting for SAAS and me never being able to walk again or me ending up worse than if i was left alone, and i am not referring to all CFS brigades but i am sure we all know someone that we wouldn't want to turn up and an MVA they were involved in for safety's sake!

And yes i know at times it can work the other way with SAAS trying to pull a person out with out rescue being on scene yet but that is a different topic all together.

Well I think you missed the point because what you said about the comcen is what I said about the comcen, and first aid is better than no aid. The gaps we are talking about are not 5 minutes thats acceptable the gaps we are talking about are a minimum of 15 minutes, and i'm not talking about having this implemented in our current system the call taker must have a button on his screen that says VA with a severity number assigned to based on the limited picture that can be painted, they push this button and the appropriate incidents are logged in the various agencies databases and the responses go out...you think not?. Question do you view your fellow CFS/SES volunteers as incompetent because I think that a professional such as a CFS/SES volunteer can go up to a victim and say "everything is okay the ambulance is on its way, stay with me don't fall asleep stay with me..." they're bleeding profusely out the leg you apply pressure..you do first aid...if these professional volunteers are not there to support them and the people on scene don't have a level head and are freaking out, they aren't going to be providing any support, the CFS/SES can provide that support, until SAAS arrives and we hand them over (except for the person who made first contact because the patient is now attached...well at least thats what I got taught) and I don't think that the CFS/SES volunteers would try and do the job of SAAS, I for one would not go poking and prodding, but I can get some information from them about where they are hurting what feels strange and if they pass out then I'm able to pass this information on to the Ambos.

And to the oh do you really want to be called to all the VA's i've addressed this a number of times. If I'm in a car accident and I'm stuck in the car theres no one around i'm passing in out of consciousness I manage to dial 000 and told them "...car accident..." **passes out** they trace the call, the ambulance comes and they wake me up I'm bleeding out, I'm trapped and the car is smoking, now if the ambos then respond fire/rescue odds are I'm going to sue the living crap out of the person responsible for the delay, for all sorts of reasons, damages loss of earnings, depression, anxiety, stress all that bull'. All because someone didn't want to risk stop calls. This line here the one we are weary to tread because of stop calls is the choice between our comfort and the comfort of the person who is the one off 1% odd statistic.. so is his/her life worth the comfort?

[Faux Pas]

Ok well if you think that you can get every agency comcen to get it right 100% of the time or even 99% of the time then I vote you should become our next Emergency Services Minister.

[Crownie24]

Thanks....any percent above 50 is better than what we got now...

Well actually I think the government leave the services in a certain position of disarray, and they don't guarantee 100% success because of the of chance that they fuk up. At least in its current state they can say woops wow yeah your right to sue me it looks very much screwed up....oh well we'll fix it...much like the black Tuesday event...they will always leave the services a portion screwed to cover their own assess (for that of chance that their 100% guarantee was really only 99%)...it isn't really about the public its about the level of comfort the politicians enjoy!

[chook]

Well said Crownie - totally agree with your comments.

[Darius]

put in a notification of issue and ye shall find (my group does one for every such occurance in our area).

I thought the law stated that it is illegal to act on the information found on a scanner/over the air, or am I mistaken....I'd be careful because some prick lawyer could turn it around and lock you up for breaking the law...our legal system is good like that

oh look a bush lawyer!
it is ok for a group to monitor the pages.  I will wait for the media (just to name one) to cop it first, they monitor and act on it all the time (and make no secret of it).

[Faux Pas]

Well actually I think the government leave the services in a certain position of disarray, and they don't guarantee 100% success because of the of chance that they fuk up. At least in its current state they can say woops wow yeah your right to sue me it looks very much screwed up....oh well we'll fix it...much like the black Tuesday event...they will always leave the services a portion screwed to cover their own assess (for that of chance that their 100% guarantee was really only 99%)...it isn't really about the public its about the level of comfort the politicians enjoy!

I have to say i think that is a load of crap. To say the the service/government do that is a joke. The service, no matter what it is now, was started by volunteer decades ago based on a need to help the community. I am sure that from the day that this service began they have been trying to achieve 100% in the service that they provide the public.

Have you ever heard of the Centre for Lessons Learned?? Probably not because it seems if you had of you might not have stated that the service/government are holding back so that they don't have to take any real responsibility. From my understanding any incident where there was a issue registered the CFS has put together a group of people to look at the problem and find a solution...ie. Bushfire Warning Messages! Before Jan 11 the Phase warning system was not really that adequate in the delivery of its messages...a range of stakeholders sat down after Jan 11 and identified problems and developed the new Bushfire Information and Warning System that is in place now that is marks above what some other states in Australia have. Now if the Government was holding things back why would they fund these programs??

[sesroadcrashrescue]

13:44:18   07-02-08   MU71 HEAD FOR MACCLESFIELD CAT 2 SAAS Murray Bridge

13:44:36   07-02-08   MU71 Cat2 Macclesfield Rd, Macclesfield 204 F10 SAAS Murray Bridge

13:44:40   07-02-08   MU71 Cat2 Macclesfield Rd, Macclesfield 204 F10 SAAS Road Crash Research

13:44:42   07-02-08   MFS: *CFSRES INC055 07/02/08 13:43,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,MACCLESFIELD ,MACCLESFIELD MAP 0 0 0 TG128,5KM TOWARDS STRATH. NO ENTRAPMENTS, NO I,NJURIES,MDWS19 MBKR19 MACC00 CFS Meadows Response

13:44:53   07-02-08   MFS: *CFSRES INC055 07/02/08 13:43,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,MACCLESFIELD ,MACCLESFIELD MAP 0 0 0 TG128,5KM TOWARDS STRATH. NO ENTRAPMENTS, NO I,NJURIES,MDWS19 MBKR19 MACC00 CFS Mount Barker Response

13:44:59   07-02-08   MFS: *CFSRES INC055 07/02/08 13:43,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,MACCLESFIELD ,MACCLESFIELD MAP 0 0 0 TG128,5KM TOWARDS STRATH. NO ENTRAPMENTS, NO I,NJURIES,MDWS19 MBKR19 MACC00 CFS Macclesfield Response

least it all happened the correct way today

[6739264]

It happened correctly? Two rescue brigades and fire cover for "No injuries, No entrapments"

Nice work...

[sesroadcrashrescue]

It happened correctly as in every body got paged close together instead of half an hour apart as per usual 2 rescue and 1 fire cover is a bit of over kill yes but to over respond and stop call is better then to under respond and have to wait for crews   

[Alan (Big Al)]

Maybe Meadows and Barker were paged because they are on Dual Response for MVA's in Meadows area therefore comms were doing the right thing in responding both rescues.

[mack]

Maybe Meadows and Barker were paged because they are on Dual Response for MVA's in Meadows area therefore comms were doing the right thing in responding both rescues.

affirm, correct CFS response to a VA, one fire one rescue.... and since meadows are dual response all MVAs.

[Faux Pas]

Just a question...If we are having such a big whinge about CFS not being called to a job by SAAS why are you whinging about sending 2 rescues? What happens if there are two cars involved and there are 2 people trapped in separate cars, not fair for 1 person to get rescued and the other to have to wait..Better to respond 2 rescues and stop call one if you arrive on scene and a 2nd rescue is not required! 

[boredmatrix]

why is that just for CFS?  If there's 10 patients in 2 cars - why not send 10 ambulances ....."Just in case!"

you lot need to get off your high horses - demands for the "just in case" scenario are all very 1980's!