SAAS Responding Other Services..

[RescueHazmat]

As an aside guys, I took one of the calls to SAAS for the Manoora VA, and while I was still on the phone to the original caller, another person was notifying SAPOL and MFS/CFS/SES, so there was certainly no delay from us telling everyone else about it. This is standard procedure for all country VA's, any shortfalls in this is an individual Call Taker problem, but everyone I work with is well aware of it.
Rule of thumb I use is if it's country, everyone comes out to play, no matter how minor it may seem.
As for who was tasked, I couldn't say anything as I wasn't involved in that side of it.

Oh, and the MULTIPLE HAZARDS on pages automatically comes up when we select more than one hazard (be it Traffic, Spillage, Animals, or Police Required) - this quite often happens at VA's as the CAD sometimes adds Police Required, so as soon as we add Traffic as a hazard, it'll go to Multiple Hazards.

Thanks for the factual info. - I love it when facts, put people back into their boxes!! To all those who ragged on SAAS *without* knowing the facts (just look back and there are a few of you), I hope you read Will's post and sit back and think about what you write next time.

[jaff]

Hi Will0936, its looks like you are in the dispatch section of SAAS ,from your posts,if so maybe you can let me know if there is a service level agreement for the role of dispatch/operator .Welcome aboard as RescueHazmat said its good to get the hard facts from the source.

Cheers Jaff

[rescue5271]

So now we know that the problem is in MFS COMMS........ I am sure we have been saying it for a while...........

[chook]

Ah but they are saying "not us" & SAAS are saying "well its not us either".
So where is the road block then?
Could it possibly be a mixture of both? Who knows - we don't seem to have the same problems - lately.
cheers

[Knackers]

Hahahahaha, This is becoming like primary school here, lets all pick on the other services cause ours is superiour. CFS vs MFS vs SES vs SAAS. Calm down. 99% of time all services are responded (country) and in a timely manner. Metro, 50% of time, by time others are there, case cancelled as only a fender bender and all parties driven away.

Maybe those of you worried (about paging delay/or nil paging) need to report to your line manager and get them to follow through the appropriate channels, this forum won't fix it, and neither will whinging.

At the end of the day the SAAS volunteers do a fantastic job, and some stations struggle to recruit and retain, so it is the same people turning out all the time. Some of them work (and live) out of their town's limits (eg farmers) so response will be delayed, they are not sitting on station waiting for that pager to go off, and I would think the same would go for CFS and SES.

How many of you have actually sat in the SAAS communication centre with a call taker and dispatcher and got a full understanding of what they do? Especially when case numbers exceed 1000 for a day.

Just my view and some food for thought, untill you have a first hand experience you should not be to quick to pass judgement. I do not pretend to know anything about fighting fires, I leave that to you firies.   

[Crownie24]

Hahahahaha, This is becoming like primary school here, lets all pick on the other services cause ours is superiour. CFS vs MFS vs SES vs SAAS. Calm down. 99% of time all services are responded (country) and in a timely manner. Metro, 50% of time, by time others are there, case cancelled as only a fender bender and all parties driven away.

Maybe those of you worried (about paging delay/or nil paging) need to report to your line manager and get them to follow through the appropriate channels, this forum won't fix it, and neither will whinging.

At the end of the day the SAAS volunteers do a fantastic job, and some stations struggle to recruit and retain, so it is the same people turning out all the time. Some of them work (and live) out of their town's limits (eg farmers) so response will be delayed, they are not sitting on station waiting for that pager to go off, and I would think the same would go for CFS and SES.

How many of you have actually sat in the SAAS communication centre with a call taker and dispatcher and got a full understanding of what they do? Especially when case numbers exceed 1000 for a day.

Just my view and some food for thought, untill you have a first hand experience you should not be to quick to pass judgement. I do not pretend to know anything about fighting fires, I leave that to you firies.   

Well it's fairly simple call for fire/rescue if its a VA at the same time you call for SAAS thats what everyone wants.

[chook]

Trouble is no one is blaming anyone - there is obviously a problem, Wills info is highly valuable, so is the stuff from the SAMFS comms guys.
However it does not fix the problem!
As Crownie said "Call fire/Rescue" when it a VA, Knackers there wasn't any mention of the SAAS vollies in relation to this.
And reports have gone through Line management, still keeps comming up.
And yes most of the time everything goes right, however what if it was your family involved in that 1%?
And nobody is saying one service is better than another - we all have our issues its the nature of the beast.
I'm sure that everyone here is after the best possible service for our community, I know I do! And here is a thought; in industry we go through our performance every day - both good & bad. Its not a pleasant experience when you are trying to explain bad numbers. However thats how we learn & grow!
If you remember years ago someone decided that it would be a great idea to get St Johns out of the ambulances & then decided it was a great idea to close down the country commcens - maybe we are now reaping the benefits of that decision
cheers

[Faux Pas]

And yes most of the time everything goes right, however what if it was your family involved in that 1%?

Without seeming insensitive, which i am sure i will get called for this, unfortunately it is a cold hard fact of life that people do die and people do get seriously injured, yeah it sucks but it happens and most of the time the damage is done before any emergency service are responded or can get to them. The fact that most of these occurrences are in the country probably double the chance of them happening because of their remoteness from emergency services and from other people who might be passing by.

What ever way you want to look at this there is never going to be a 100% success rate in anything aspect of CFS, MFS, SAAS, SAPOL, SES or any other agency in the world. There is always going to be that 1% chance that something is not going to be done correctly whether it be through human error, which happens from time to time for a huge number of reasons, or through a lack of information given to emergency services from people who call these jobs in. Through feel free to correct me if you are perfect and could do the job right 100% of the time! 

[chook]

Yes of course you are right, sometimes it doesn't matter what occurs the PT outcome will be the same.
No not saying I'm perfect - just reducing the chances of a bad outcome by removing/reducing all of the controlables isn't such a bad idea .
And thats why we have debriefs, so that we can examine what happened, what went right, what can be improved etc - don't need to tell you guys about it you do it yourselves all of the time.
However in the health industry & other industries here & overseas they are now taking it a step further, by not just accepting that people die (the old **** happens) - but did we do it right? Could this outcome been changed?
Its called root cause analysis, not finding blame, not pointing fingers but instead finding the root causes of why these things happen & how measures can be put in place to prevent the same error occurring again.
Anyway it is highly unlikely we will find common ground on this subject.
so cheers

[Faux Pas]

Its called root cause analysis, not finding blame, not pointing fingers but instead finding the root causes of why these things happen & how measures can be put in place to prevent the same error occurring again.
Anyway it is highly unlikely we will find common ground on this subject.
so cheers

Too bad your comment this time is so far from your comments previous...No finding blame and no finger pointing seems exactly like what is happening lately in here!

However I agree that no common ground will ever be found because it seems everyone has their thoughts on who is to blame and how to fix the people who are the problem.

[Mike]

A major part of emergency service work is reactive work. As such all services should strive to get the reaction to an incident correct 100% of the time.

The initial reaction (response) in this case, is not happening 100% and that is why we encourage all these incidents to be reported by the appropriate people in the appropriate manner.

I think the main gripe here is the perceived (or actual?) lack of investigation/action from the reports lodged.

People need to vent occasionally, just need to make sure that any person/service is not being targeted unnecessarily.

[jaff]

Faux Pas,hopefully there is common ground amongst all of us --the want for the best possible emergency services-- how we achieve that is debateable, but looking closely at our performances and being open about our shortcomings and accepting constructive criticism will surely help ALL of the services to better their service delivery.
Some may look through these threads and look at them as just plain "service bashings",but I believe that they highlight possible deficancies and that may be hard to accept if your agency is the one highlighted, but we as 1st responders should always be trying to better ourselves and peer evaluation is usefull.
Indisputable history shows none of us can take the moral high ground.

Cheers Jaff

[boredmatrix]

Without seeming insensitive, which i am sure i will get called for this, unfortunately it is a cold hard fact of life that people do die and people do get seriously injured, yeah it sucks but it happens and most of the time the damage is done before any emergency service are responded or can get to them.

yes - it's called natural selection - and I'm of the strong belief that we mess with it far too much!!

let's face another fact - if it wasn't for the 'goodwill' (sic) of emergency services in rescuing people from their severely smashed cars in a timely fashion - they would die.  Instead - they are alive- eating pureed food, getting regular UTI's from their catheter and sitting around all day in Julia Farr Centre.

lets ponder that for a minute shall we? 

yes - I'm pro life, but I'm also about quality over quantity!!

[Faux Pas]

Jaff, I agree with you that there is a need for looking at and accepting shortcomings as emergency services but i think that there is more 'service bashing' than constructive criticism going on and i think that a lot of it comes down to all services, staff and volunteers, accepting that it is never going to be 100% achievable all the time. I am also certain that there is no one service that could take the moral high ground. Sorry if i haven't been able to express my view clearly to show that.

[jaff]

The other indisputable is service rivalaries,these for the most part are very healthy ,those of us that have attended mutual aid jobs ,change of stations,and interstate deployments with a mix of vol and paid crew, always come back with a lot of respect for the other services.
So maybe some of these posts should be tempered with the possibility that some service rivalry has coloured them somewhat.

Cheers Jaff

[chook]

Just a small correction - if you look at all of the posts of mine I haven't pointed the finger at anyone or service in relation to this topic!
And yes I'm a great believer in natural selection (Darwin awards for example)
And no I certainly wouldn't like to spend the rest of my life in the Julia Farr centre.
And yes I agree the most people are their own worst enemy.
However as far as the community is concerned, they believe we try our best (vollie, payed, full timer, whatever)every single time. So What is wrong with trying to get as close to 100% as humanly possible?
As I tell my crews everytime we have a less than favourable outcome "We are not angels as long as we did everything properly & we did our best so be it" thats not just for Mva's but missing kids/ old people etc etc.
So on my part there isn't any interservice rivalry.
Thought before I go - One day when we were practicing grenade throwing I asked the tiny female medic Why was she there? and she replied "Well someone has to pick up your bits and pieces when you stuff up!" then she continued to read her book.
Maybe sometimes thats what we do
cheers
 

[boredmatrix]

So What is wrong with trying to get as close to 100% as humanly possible?

.......and the nail on the head award goes to chook!

what is wrong with trying to get to 100% most of the time?  Absolutely nothing - but it's all relative!

as a paramedic working in the city - trying to deal with numbskulls at 3am who've called us for their stubbed toe or their 6 month old cough, or 2 day old backpain (and just want us to give them something for the pain and go away) gets a little tiring after a while, especially when we're dealing with these idiots while someone with chestpain has to wait 20 minutes because the only car available in their area is tied up dealing with a peanut who doesn't think their ingrown hair can wait to see the GP in the morning, or it's too hard to hop in their own car and drive!

 - and believe you me - with everyone sitting back telling us that we have to work harder and faster "because it's your job" - sooner or later there's going to be a big crack start appearing in my ability to maintain 100% ALL the time!!

Invariably - as a volunteer who may do anywhere from 1 to 10 jobs a week - you generally have enough adrenaline and drive to work long and hard for each job.  Try compounding that same workload into one 10 hour day, or a 14 hour nightshift - and you'll find that burnout happens much quicker than you realise. 

while the majority of users of this forum are volunteers in regional SA, and some from metro fringe areas - there is still bigger picture stuff which can't be seen by all! I'm not attempting to hammer any particular point home here - but understanding that while we're all doing a job - we are all still human!  This element of humanity often seems to be covered over by some individuals keen sense of skewed reality which causes them to think they are some kind of super-hero! 

your safety and health and welfare still rests with you first!  If it's something thats bigger than you can handle - it gets handballed up the chain to those who hold the purse strings to deal with!


 

[Darius]

boredmatrix you should have a read of http://randomreality.blogware.com/
he's a UK ambo but sounds like similar problems to what you're talking about.

[boredmatrix]

yes darius - Tom Reynolds (pseudonym obviously!) has had that blog going for a while - only ever read it once due to lack of time!   

he's also written a book on the life of an EMT - and the hours of sheer boredom interspersed with moments of sheer terror!

[Crownie24]

Without seeming insensitive, which i am sure i will get called for this, unfortunately it is a cold hard fact of life that people do die and people do get seriously injured, yeah it sucks but it happens and most of the time the damage is done before any emergency service are responded or can get to them.

yes - it's called natural selection - and I'm of the strong belief that we mess with it far too much!!

let's face another fact - if it wasn't for the 'goodwill' (sic) of emergency services in rescuing people from their severely smashed cars in a timely fashion - they would die.  Instead - they are alive- eating pureed food, getting regular UTI's from their catheter and sitting around all day in Julia Farr Centre.

lets ponder that for a minute shall we? 

yes - I'm pro life, but I'm also about quality over quantity!!

scheiße and your an ambulance officer.....well i'm going to refuse if I get one with that attitude....

[Mike]

This is not a question of ethics, bring it back on track people....

[will0936]

Hi Will0936, its looks like you are in the dispatch section of SAAS ,from your posts,if so maybe you can let me know if there is a service level agreement for the role of dispatch/operator .Welcome aboard as RescueHazmat said its good to get the hard facts from the source.

Cheers Jaff

Not sure what you mean by SLA? As in do we have Standard Operating Procedures for who else to call?

Ah but they are saying "not us" & SAAS are saying "well its not us either".
So where is the road block then?
Could it possibly be a mixture of both? Who knows - we don't seem to have the same problems - lately.
cheers

I have no doubt it's a bit of both - hell, I know I've forgotten to call Adelaide Fire for a VA in Barmera, it was only when SAPOL asked if I'd called them that I remembered. Quite often someone else in the room will also confirm if everyone else has been told. The info I provided above was only for the particular job.

[6739264]

filtered and your an ambulance officer.....well i'm going to refuse if I get one with that attitude....

Because the fact that boredmatrix understands that life as a vegetable isn't life, it is merely an existence, is really going to impact upon how he treats his patients.

Just like the fact I believe in the fundamentals of communism, am pro-choice, support homosexual marriages and do not believe in a god really impacts the way that I extinguish your burning house.

[Crownie24]

filtered and your an ambulance officer.....well i'm going to refuse if I get one with that attitude....

Because the fact that boredmatrix understands that life as a vegetable isn't life, it is merely an existence, is really going to impact upon how he treats his patients.

Just like the fact I believe in the fundamentals of communism, am pro-choice, support homosexual marriages and do not believe in a god really impacts the way that I extinguish your burning house.

I understand what he's saying but I hope to god he doesn't use his own judgment on deciding who would be better of dead...
In addition my house doesn't/won't catch on fire....

[Faux Pas]

I understand what he's saying but I hope to god he doesn't use his own judgment on deciding who would be better of dead...
In addition my house doesn't/won't catch on fire....

Wow big attitude there!

I think that you are pretty harsh even suggesting that he would use his own judgement to decide who is better off dead, i don't think any person in that position would do anything of the sort. I don't think that you quite got the point that he was trying to make!