Disc Cutter

[TillerMan]

I was just wondering if there are any C.F.S brigades with disc cutters? Every M.F.S rescue truck has one and they probably would be useful in some areas.

[Mike]

CFS Dont... SES still have one. Doesnt get used very often though. last time was to cut a curb out to drain water, and that was a while ago.

[TillerMan]

I was thinking they would be more useful in things like shed fires or factory fires, c.f.s doesn't seem to have much salvage and support equipment unlike the c.f.a who have alot of salvage appliances with things like B.A cylinders, lighting, specialist venting and overhaul equipment, shelters and food etc on board.

[24P]

Salisbury has one and has been used on a few occasions.

[CyberCitizen]

We Had One But Then Had To Remove It Until We Can Undertake A Training Course. Unless The Brigade Members Have Undertaken A Training Cource, Then We Are Not Allowed To Carry It. CFS Don't Have A Training Course, So We Have To Look For The Training Externally.

Last Time It Was Used Was To Cut The Guard Rail That A Trailer Was Stuck On.

[strikeathird]

I couldn't think of a more handy piece of equipment....


CFS didn't train me in the method of putting on my turnout gear... But I worked it out...   Im sure if MFS have the equipment their would be the training available.... 

24P what size / brand of disc cutter do you operate ?

[CyberCitizen]

Im sure if MFS have the equipment their would be the training available.... 

There Is Training Available, Just Not Through The CFS.

I couldn't think of a more handy piece of equipment....

Good For Roller Doors

[Fire_Rescue96]

Im with the same brigade as Cybercitizen and its not just the fact that no-one is trained, CFS also have asked us to do a risk assesment on it, but training is also a big part of it.

24P did your brigade do a risk assesment? and what training if any have you done so you can use it?

[oz fire]

Good For Roller Doors

That's what MFS thought at the Mitcham shopping centre fire - that was until the operators didn't know how to use it, didn't know that they came with different blades/discs and were trying to use chainsaw techniques to cut through the door.

The quick resolution - a CFS member with a hooligan tool, some logic, a bit of quick work and then removal of the roller door sheets - problem solved, entry gained and disc cutter and operator still attempting to work out what it wrong!!

Reinforces the point about training and then operating under pressure, they go hand in glove.

That said I have seen MFS use them on a number of occasions very very successfully and very quickly.

Maybe the other option is a reciprocating saw - I believe some brigades carry these and others are trying to get them?

[mattb]

Reciprocating saws are useful for gaining access to buildings, they do have their limitations but in the hands of the right user they can get through most obstructions.

They also have the benefit of being useful at MVA's and vehicle fires (ever had trouble popping a bonnet on a burnt out car, the recipro saw cuts the latch easily).

Ours was endorsed by Region once we did a risk assessment and came up with a training procedure.

[medevac]

re: disc cutter.... are we talking about for use at vehicle accidents?? if so then i wouldnt generally think it was a good idea at all... as a disc cutter versus metal tends to create a hell of a lot of sparks... and i thought one of the main things we did at vehicle accidents was try to limit ignition sources...

i would reccomend a reciprocating saw instead...

whereas: if we are talking about verious other jobs excluding VAs then i would say a demo-saw or disc cutter would be fantastic piece of equipment.... roller doors, cement walls, steal beams, aaaahh the list goes on, SES use demo-saws for a hell of a lot of USAR roles, and they can also be used for salvage ops, like someone mentioned the whole cutting through a gutter gig...

[CFS_fire32]

We Had One But Then Had To Remove It Until We Can Undertake A Training Course. Unless The Brigade Members Have Undertaken A Training Cource, Then We Are Not Allowed To Carry It.

Sounds like the situation with PPV fans.  Many brigades carry them on their appliance, but nobody has undertaken accrediated training in how to use a PPV fan correctly.

[medevac]

We Had One But Then Had To Remove It Until We Can Undertake A Training Course. Unless The Brigade Members Have Undertaken A Training Cource, Then We Are Not Allowed To Carry It.

Sounds like the situation with PPV fans.  Many brigades carry them on their appliance, but nobody has undertaken accrediated training in how to use a PPV fan correctly.

however there is a course... and it lists in TAS

[Wagon 1]

I don't think Tillerman ever said anthing about using them in mva's. They would be great to have on at least one appliance within a group, even more so in this day and age with places locked up like fort knox.

[Mike]

But it is in the Vehicle Accident section!
I was always taught: the disc cutter is there. Exhaust ALL other options before even considering using it at a VA. Even then it would need to be some pretty exeptional circumstances!

The noise, fire risk, danger and discomfort to the casualty.... not to mention that it would scare the *clears throat* out of them!

[TillerMan]

Sorry it probably is in the wrong section, the reason i put it here was because they are normally only carried on rescue vehicles because they are the only appliances with enough room for that kind of extra equipment.

[medevac]

yeah i didnt think you'd mean at VAs it just threw me being in the vehicle rescue section...

im all for one in each group, should they require a demo saw to gain entry or what not

[strikeathird]

Agreed.  Think every CFS rescue should have one, & if the group doesn't have a Rescue Brigade (Cause their are some out there).. Then give it to the most central .. ..

[rescue5271]

Naracoorte has one has been used on a number of large shed fire's in the area of the past few years...

[tennessee_FF]

I haven't had an opportunity to read all of your topics , however thought I would mention..

Disc Saws are used in a large number of operations over here , including Ventilation more than anything.(Opening roofs, creating vents in the tops of structures etc)  Followed secondly by allowing the truckies access to doors.  (commonly rollerdoors, factory doors, secured buildings, anything which cannot easily be popped with a Halligan Bar, Sledge Mallet etc).  I have not seen a disc saw used on a Vehicle incident. 

Regarding what this equipment is stowed on, we do carry them on Rescue apparatus, however most commonly they will be used by a truck crew,(Known as a Ladder crew also), it would be rare that a Rescue apparatus arrived on scene prior to a Ladder.

[Sam]

Hi All,

We have had a disc cutter for a while now, but we have been unable to use it as there is no written S.O.P for it? I was talking to another brigade with one and they said that they just use a chainsaw S.O.P?
What do other brigades do?

Thanks

[TillerMan]

Hey tenessee_ff , we dont have any ladder trucks in the Country fire service but the metro fire service do carry them on their ladder trucks and skyjets or quints as you know them.

[CyberCitizen]

We have had a disc cutter for a while now, but we have been unable to use it as there is no written S.O.P for it? I was talking to another brigade with one and they said that they just use a chainsaw S.O.P?

Hey Sam,

Yes We Are In The Same Boat, They Requested That We Take It Off Our Truck But It Had Been Used A Number Of Times Prior To That Request, It's A Handy Piece Of Equipment To Carry & It's A Bummer Not Being Able To Have It On The Truck, We Could Have Really Used It At A Job We Had About A Month Ago (Gaining Access To A Factory Fire).

Would It Be Possible To Get Away With Using The S.O.P For The Chainsaw?

[bajdas]

I am sure some SES Units will have SOP's for the disc cutters carried on the heavy rescue trucks.

The blade types and changing blades procedure might be different depending on the model cutter your Brigade carries. But the use and safety procedures, including wetting agents, I imagine would apply to all motorised disc cutters.

At least it will be a start for you rather than starting a SOP from scratch.

Maybe this is a inter-agency training opportunity ?

[Del]

I have been a part of the driving force behind getting Nuri to get there's onto a truck.... a bigger project than i could have imagined, i offered to write the SOP, write a training package find someone to endorse the package and get it into operation. Too hard says CFS we have to do it our selves, yet no one at STC seems interested in helping get a valuable tool such as this in place, along with OH&S angle etc etc etc.... Bugs me though that we get away with a PPV, without any official traing!