General Discussion > Country Fire Service

ES Reform

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Firedoc02:
What are the actual benefits of Mt Barker going to the MFS? Going from a volunteer crew to retained won't benefit the community only those that get chosen to receive the retainer. Has a proper risk assesment  been done on Mt Barker. I don't mean a quick risk analysis but a proper risk Assesment taking in all areas of risk including structures, hazmat, rural, rcr, emerging risks etc. if this has been done then I would like to see the model used as it could be used in other areas of SA.

I don't doubt the Mt Barker is frustrated and a lot of what you say I agree with. My point is that if CFS is broken we either leave the service or attempt to fix it. My vote is to try and fix the problems with good argument based upon fact not emotion with CFS staff and volunteers being accountable for their answers.

I know a number of retained firefighters and life there is not always as good as you think, it does have its good points also

I think we have done this to death and possibly won't agree on all points however I think we have both demonstrated that we need to work hard in  getting CFS to a higher level than what it is now.  Thanks

CFS_Firey:

--- Quote from: Firedoc02 on July 16, 2014, 10:24:20 AM ---What are the actual benefits of Mt Barker going to the MFS? Going from a volunteer crew to retained won't benefit the community only those that get chosen to receive the retainer.

--- End quote ---

Is that really what you believe?


* All retained SAMFS firefighters are trained in all disciplines, so every firefighter on every appliance they respond is trained in BA, RCR & Hazmat.  There is no way CFS can provide that, even in brigades that do all specialities, because our training system doesn't allow it. = benefit to the community
* Retained stations are required to always have a crew available to respond.  If a full crew isn't available, Adelaide Fire make arrangements so thjat there is (Like a COQ from another station, or sending people up to augment the local crews).  CFS does not, and arguably can not do this. = benefit to the community
* Retained appliances must respond with an officer, so there is always someone who is qualified (by training, not be election) to manage an incident.  CFS don't even require an officer, let alone have any standards for officer competence. = benefit to the community
* Appliances provided are fit for purpose.  If a risk needs a pumper with a particular pump capacity, one is provided. If an appliance breaks down, it is replaced by another fit-for-purpose appliance, rather than a 25 year old 24. Equipment is also fit for purpose, rather than the cheapest available. = benefit to the community
I'm sure there are other benefits that I haven't listed here, but a claim that the only ones who benefit are the retained crew is ridiculous.

Many brigades have been fighting for better support, equipment and training for a long time (when was FRAG around? The late 90s?) and have got nothing.  I think this move from Mt Barker is a sign that brigades have given up fighting, not a sign that that they need to start negotiations again.

Alex:
Firedoc02 = uneducated

Only 6 posts, all of them in this thread = troll?

Firedoc02:

Agree - all Retained are trained eventually in these disciplines (although they are in-service courses only and are not nationally accredited courses ie. no PUA) - all nine or ten of them. No all CFS members are not trained in all disciplines because there are simply more of us. Each brigade has an SFEC allocation and if that is not suitable for your brigades needs then argue the case but not on emotion but based upon real facts. I know of 2 brigades that have done this and received changes to their SFEC to the point where there numbers are equal to the local retained brigade for CABA and exceed their numbers for RCR and HAZMAT. It can be done. Why it was not done in the case of Mt Barker I am not sure and we need to find out why.

Yes all retained Brigades are suppose to be able to respond to all incidents. However the fact of the matter is that they cannot. I won't name the brigades because that is unfair but in the past 3 years 3 retained brigades that I know of have either defaulted from 0800 to 1700 hrs monday to Friday because they did not have a senior or officer available due to work commitments, defaulted on three occasions over a two week period due to low numbers (CFS Brigade responded to the fixed alarm call on these occasions) and the third for a number of years relied on an automatic response with CFS due to a lack of numbers. Yes this can be handled by  a change of quarters but is normally either not known or in the case of the 1st brigade a near retained station responded bypassing a very competent CFS Brigade. CFS has the same issues and we get around this by either taking the brigade off line or calling in the nearest most appropriate service.  
Your last point is correct to a point. The CFS CO has identified this and is providing each region with a new appliance as their Regional spare appliance. This should alleviate some concerns with old appliances. I know of at least one brigade that when their pumper requires service we borrow one from MFS for that period of time. I would have thought our equipment to the most part is fit for purpose and certainly not the cheapest. If it is not fit for purpose why do you have it. Put a case to the RVMC through your Group Officer to get things changed. As I said previously I know a number of retained people and in some instances they would like to have what some of our brigades have.

I truly hope that the folk at Mt Barker CFS get what they want whether they stay with CFS or move to MFS. My only wish is that if we have identified a problem then we CFS need to fix it. You are part of the collective we call CFS so you have as much right to be heard and represented as any one else. Many years ago a Group took on CFS through the courts and lost - the reason, they went alone. Perhaps Mt Barker needs to get more support from people who want to see changes and not just talk about changes.....

pumprescue:
Mt Barker has done everything suggested and some, they aren't stupid, this has been going on for many many years, at the end of the day CFS aren't interested, also who mentioned anything about it being retained only?

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